Suns to Match Johnson Offer

[sunsfn]

I don't know if I would say Atlanta is helping. The Phoenix Suns were not going to pay over the maximum that another team could offer.

If Atlanta had been willing to offer a maximum contract there's a chance that the Phoenix Suns could have bargained at JJ and his agent down to slightly less.

Atlanta might be thinking that there is a very small chance that the Phoenix Suns won't match despite what they had been saying. At worst they force another team to pay maximum dollar, and they show their fans (all five of them) that they are trying to be active in free agency.

Joe Mama

Joe, is this supposed to have the word "not" in the sentence?

-

 

[elindholm]

50 over 4 is pretty big, like I said 12.5 a year. I thought there was a large amount of people that thought it would be a mistake to offer him 12/year. Might be wrong though.

I don't know, since we never took a poll, but my impression was that most people would have felt pretty good about a contract starting at $9 million. Had Johnson signed a six-year extension to those terms, the average would have been ballpark $11.3 million (I don't feel like computing it). A six-year extension starting at $10 million, which I think most people would have felt wasn't a disaster, would have averaged $12.5.

And finally, to spin it even further , a contract starting at $11 million would have averaged better than $12.5 during years 2 through 5, with (of course) the largest payment at the end.

So I basically look at it this way. Assuming the $20 million in the first year is correct, it's basically $10 million in salary and $10 million in, for lack of a better term, gambling debt. The Suns gambled a year ago that Johnson's market value wouldn't skyrocket, and they lost. So write that $10 million off, have a good cry, and move on. Now it becomes a manageable $60/5 contract, without a severely escalating salary over the length of the deal. Given the current market and all of the other intangibles, I'd say that really isn't too bad.

 

[devilalum]

I say if JJ signs an offer sheet with Atlanta you let both of them dangle until the last possible second and then you match.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

50 over 4 is pretty big, like I said 12.5 a year. I thought there was a large amount of people that thought it would be a mistake to offer him 12/year. Might be wrong though.

I don't know, since we never took a poll, but my impression was that most people would have felt pretty good about a contract starting at $9 million. Had Johnson signed a six-year extension to those terms, the average would have been ballpark $11.3 million (I don't feel like computing it). A six-year extension starting at $10 million, which I think most people would have felt wasn't a disaster, would have averaged $12.5.

And finally, to spin it even further , a contract starting at $11 million would have averaged better than $12.5 during years 2 through 5, with (of course) the largest payment at the end.

So I basically look at it this way. Assuming the $20 million in the first year is correct, it's basically $10 million in salary and $10 million in, for lack of a better term, gambling debt. The Suns gambled a year ago that Johnson's market value wouldn't skyrocket, and they lost. So write that $10 million off, have a good cry, and move on. Now it becomes a manageable $60/5 contract, without a severely escalating salary over the length of the deal. Given the current market and all of the other intangibles, I'd say that really isn't too bad.

That is what I call a positive spin on things Eric.

 

[Joe Mama]

Joe, is this supposed to have the word "not" in the sentence?

-

Yeah, it should have read "if Atlanta not been willing to offer the max..."

In other words given what Ray Allen, Michael Redd, and Larry Hughes just got I don't think there was much of a chance that JJ was going to settle for significantly less than a maximum deal from another team would pay.

50 over 4 is pretty big, like I said 12.5 a year. I thought there was a large amount of people that thought it would be a mistake to offer him 12/year. Might be wrong though.

I don't know, since we never took a poll, but my impression was that most people would have felt pretty good about a contract starting at $9 million. Had Johnson signed a six-year extension to those terms, the average would have been ballpark $11.3 million (I don't feel like computing it). A six-year extension starting at $10 million, which I think most people would have felt wasn't a disaster, would have averaged $12.5.

And finally, to spin it even further , a contract starting at $11 million would have averaged better than $12.5 during years 2 through 5, with (of course) the largest payment at the end.

So I basically look at it this way. Assuming the $20 million in the first year is correct, it's basically $10 million in salary and $10 million in, for lack of a better term, gambling debt. The Suns gambled a year ago that Johnson's market value wouldn't skyrocket, and they lost. So write that $10 million off, have a good cry, and move on. Now it becomes a manageable $60/5 contract, without a severely escalating salary over the length of the deal. Given the current market and all of the other intangibles, I'd say that really isn't too bad.

Well, aren't you the "glass half-full" positive thinker all of a sudden.

If it had been a 5-year/$60 million that JJ was holding out for last summer I could understand the Phoenix Suns thinking that way. According to most reports it was that most 6 years/ $55 million he wanted though. I would say that gambling debt was much larger than $10 million. Given that what they will end up paying his $15 million more in total with a year less it's probably safe to say that Eric Campbell cost them $25 million +.

Of course I can't complain. I thought it was the right move at the time.

Joe Mama

 

[Errntknght]

"Eric Campbell" ???

Let me guess... you must have said "a risky gamble", and slurred the 'y' into oblivion... I suppose sometimes you must wonder yourself what you spoke to your typing program...

 

[RJ May]

Yeah, it should have read "if Atlanta not been willing to offer the max..."

In other words given what Ray Allen, Michael Redd, and Larry Hughes just got I don't think there was much of a chance that JJ was going to settle for significantly less than a maximum deal from another team would pay.



Well, aren't you the "glass half-full" positive thinker all of a sudden.

If it had been a 5-year/$60 million that JJ was holding out for last summer I could understand the Phoenix Suns thinking that way. According to most reports it was that most 6 years/ $55 million he wanted though. I would say that gambling debt was much larger than $10 million. Given that what they will end up paying his $15 million more in total with a year less it's probably safe to say that Eric Campbell cost them $25 million +.

Of course I can't complain. I thought it was the right move at the time.

Joe Mama

I thought JJ wanted 50mil for 6yrs. That's what I've been hearing all this time.

 

[Joe Mama]

"Eric Campbell" ???

Let me guess... you must have said "a risky gamble", and slurred the 'y' into oblivion... I suppose sometimes you must wonder yourself what you spoke to your typing program...

It was either "risky gamble" or "their gamble". The funny thing is that this software is quite accurate if I just use it properly. I have a tendency to mumble (especially when I'm in bed and tired).

I've got to keep you guys on your toes.

If you guys saw some of the things I've deleted you would absolutely die. I've wiped out a few classics in the last week or so.

I thought JJ wanted 50mil for 6yrs. That's what I've been hearing all this time.

I've also heard that it might have been as high as $55 million, so I went with the largest number to be fairest to the Phoenix Suns. If I had to guess I would say six years and $50 million since that is what is most commonly reported.

Joe

 

[playstation]

Joe's on the cover of the NBA section of espn.com right now under the title 'joe max'

 

[playstation]

• Other surprise guests in town [Las Vegas] so far include Kobe Bryant and Joe Johnson.

Bryant wasn't here to scout the summer league, obviously, but he did serve as the biggest name in a celebrity poker tournament for charity at The Mirage. "We were all a little shocked," said one fellow All-Star.

Johnson, meanwhile, made a brief appearance in the gym Sunday, one day after agent Arn Tellem provided a bigger spectacle than anything on the floor by engaging in a lengthy negotiations summit on the baseline with Suns president Bryan Colangelo and longtime Suns boss Jerry Colangelo.

Johnson's joining Tellem in town set up an easy meeting with Hawks general manager Billy Knight, who has committed to signing the restricted free agent to a five-year max offer sheet worth an estimated $70 million -- including an up-front payment of an estimated $20 million -- later this month. Johnson's camp was informed Saturday the Suns intend to match if Atlanta holds firm with that plan.

interesting

 

[JPlay]

Wow I can't believe we are paying Joe Johnson as a max player. He's not in that category yet. He's never made an all-star team.

That's two awful mistakes the Suns have made. #1 trading the #7 pick, #2 not re-signing JJ last year. Did BC really deserve that award.

 

[Chaplin]

Wow I can't believe we are paying Joe Johnson as a max player. He's not in that category yet. He's never made an all-star team.

That's two awful mistakes the Suns have made. #1 trading the #7 pick, #2 not re-signing JJ last year. Did BC really deserve that award.

Come on, you actually think that not signing JJ last summer was BC's decision?

 

[devilalum]

Wow I can't believe we are paying Joe Johnson as a max player. He's not in that category yet. He's never made an all-star team.

That's two awful mistakes the Suns have made. #1 trading the #7 pick, #2 not re-signing JJ last year. Did BC really deserve that award.

I agree that BC has made some big mistakes and I have often questioned questioned how much of his success is just dumb luck.

The bottom line is that he is the GM and the Suns went from lotto to best record in the league. That is why he is GM of the year.

Every GM makes good moves and bad ones. BC's good moves have obviously outweighed the bad.

 

[JPlay]

I agree BC deserves credit for going from lottery to best regular season record, but he's made some long-term moves recently that are questionable.

I don't think he anticipated Nash being that good or Amare and JJ developing so quickly around Nash. A lot of it was luck, but a lot of it was Nash.

I think JJ is great. But is he a max player? Max players are all-stars. Amare and Nash should be Max players. Marion's numbers are all-star caliber, but he doesn't dominate. JJ is good, and he might develop into a McGrady, Kobe type, but he's not there yet.

I can't see the Suns affording three max players along w/ Nash's contract.

 

[devilalum]

I agree BC deserves credit for going from lottery to best regular season record, but he's made some long-term moves recently that are questionable.

I don't think he anticipated Nash being that good or Amare and JJ developing so quickly around Nash. A lot of it was luck, but a lot of it was Nash.

I think JJ is great. But is he a max player? Max players are all-stars. Amare and Nash should be Max players. Marion's numbers are all-star caliber, but he doesn't dominate. JJ is good, and he might develop into a McGrady, Kobe type, but he's not there yet.

I can't see the Suns affording three max players along w/ Nash's contract.

Max players SHOULD be All Stars but if you check I'm sure you'll find that a majority of the players in the NBA that have max contarcts are not All Stars.

 

[George O'Brien]

When Orlando threw that enormous contract at T-Mac, he was considered a defensive specialist. They gambled on his talent rather than his proven producitity in the shadow of Carter.

Has JJ proven himself to be an all-star? Several commentators have suggested he played as well as any wing the last half of the season. His performance in the playoffs was pretty good. IN 9 games:

18.8 ppg 50.4% shooting, 55.6% for three, 4.3 rpg, 3.3 assists per game. Even in the finals, when coming off of an injury and wearing an unfamiliar mask, JJ averaged 18.3 ppg, 47.8% from the field and 53.8% for three,

 

[The Commish]

When Orlando threw that enormous contract at T-Mac, he was considered a defensive specialist. They gambled on his talent rather than his proven producitity in the shadow of Carter.

Has JJ proven himself to be an all-star? Several commentators have suggested he played as well as any wing the last half of the season. His performance in the playoffs was pretty good. IN 9 games:

18.8 ppg 50.4% shooting, 55.6% for three, 4.3 rpg, 3.3 assists per game. Even in the finals, when coming off of an injury and wearing an unfamiliar mask, JJ averaged 18.3 ppg, 47.8% from the field and 53.8% for three,

Next year I anticipate JJ's numbers to go up as well because he will be a bigger focal point of our offense. Q will be gone, and KT isn't exactly a scorer, so I figure the Big 4 will once again dominate the stat sheet, JJ especially. When Joe's numbers are there, I hope he will get an All Star spot, but in a Conference that features Ray Allen, T-Mac, and Kobe that still may be a long shot.

 

[George O'Brien]

Next year I anticipate JJ's numbers to go up as well because he will be a bigger focal point of our offense. Q will be gone, and KT isn't exactly a scorer, so I figure the Big 4 will once again dominate the stat sheet, JJ especially. When Joe's numbers are there, I hope he will get an All Star spot, but in a Conference that features Ray Allen, T-Mac, and Kobe that still may be a long shot.

POINT GUARD.

I expect the Suns will run more of their offense through JJ. He creates matchup problems for many guards and has point guard skills, so he might be used to initiate some plays with Nash playing off the ball. As JJ develops a better feel for how to get the ball to Amare, the offense will become much more difficult to defend.

 

[elindholm]

Max players SHOULD be All Stars but if you check I'm sure you'll find that a majority of the players in the NBA that have max contarcts are not All Stars.

You mean are not currently All-Stars, or have never been All-Stars? I'm hard pressed to come up with any other example of a max player who has never been an All-Star. I'm not saying there isn't one, but there can't be many.

 

[devilalum]

Max players SHOULD be All Stars but if you check I'm sure you'll find that a majority of the players in the NBA that have max contarcts are not All Stars.

You mean are not currently All-Stars, or have never been All-Stars? I'm hard pressed to come up with any other example of a max player who has never been an All-Star. I'm not saying there isn't one, but there can't be many.

Part of it is a self fulfilling prophecy.

I think the NBA really goes out of their way to pimp guys with max contracts. Teams expect this. If you look at the the list of the 30 highest paid players in the league http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=56407 you'll see that there are a lot of "marginal" All Stars, guys who made it maybe once and at least a few that have never made it all.

 

[George O'Brien]

Max players SHOULD be All Stars but if you check I'm sure you'll find that a majority of the players in the NBA that have max contarcts are not All Stars.

You mean are not currently All-Stars, or have never been All-Stars? I'm hard pressed to come up with any other example of a max player who has never been an All-Star. I'm not saying there isn't one, but there can't be many.

It does seem to follow: "If he's so good, why ain't he rich" with "If he's so rich, he must be good".

Some guys with big contracts were on the all star team a long time ago. Chris Weber, Penny Hardaway, were all stars in the 90's. Alan Houston was an All Star in 2000-01 as was Antonion Davis.

 

[Joe Mama]

It does seem to follow: "If he's so good, why ain't he rich" with "If he's so rich, he must be good".

Some guys with big contracts were on the all star team a long time ago. Chris Weber, Penny Hardaway, were all stars in the 90's. Alan Houston was an All Star in 2000-01 as was Antonion Davis.

Chris Webber should have been an All-Star last season as well.

Joe Mama

 

[overseascardfan]

Wow I can't believe we are paying Joe Johnson as a max player. He's not in that category yet. He's never made an all-star team.

That's two awful mistakes the Suns have made. #1 trading the #7 pick, #2 not re-signing JJ last year. Did BC really deserve that award.

When you think about it JJ plays SG/SF, with fans voting there is no way he starts over Kobe and T Mac, I feel he should have made the team this year when Ray Allen pulled out. The trading of the 1st rounder last year is BC's doing but Sarver signs the paychecks, so last years mistake is coming back to bite him in the a--. Yes, he's not worth 20 million but they cannot let him walk and not get anything in return.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

A joe article for you guys before you wake up.......courtesy from the east coast

• Other surprise guests in town so far include Kobe Bryant and Joe Johnson.

Bryant wasn't here to scout the summer league, obviously, but he did serve as the biggest name in a celebrity poker tournament for charity at The Mirage. "We were all a little shocked," said one fellow All-Star.

Johnson, meanwhile, made a brief appearance in the gym Sunday, one day after agent Arn Tellem provided a bigger spectacle than anything on the floor by engaging in a lengthy negotiations summit on the baseline with Suns president Bryan Colangelo and longtime Suns boss Jerry Colangelo.

Johnson's joining Tellem in town set up an easy meeting with Hawks general manager Billy Knight, who has committed to signing the restricted free agent to a five-year max offer sheet worth an estimated $70 million -- including an up-front payment of an estimated $20 million -- later this month. Johnson's camp was informed Saturday the Suns intend to match if Atlanta holds firm with that plan.

 

[Joe Mama]

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=56466&page=4&pp=15&highlight=Easy+meeting

I knew I had read that blurb somewhere else here. I actually like posting them in separate threads though because I think it's easy for them to get lost on page 5 or 6 of some monster thread.

Joe