Suns to Match Johnson Offer

[Yuma]

What I wonder, is if we can counter with a sixth year at $70 million, or do we have to match the other offer EXACTLY?

 

[devilalum]

What I wonder, is if we can counter with a sixth year at $70 million, or do we have to match the other offer EXACTLY?

No way I'd bet anything that JJ's drooling all over the $20 mil. up front.

 

[Yuma]

No way I'd bet anything that JJ's drooling all over the $20 mil. up front.

I'd leave the $20 million up front, but it would be nice to get that extra year in!

 

[Joe Mama]

What I wonder, is if we can counter with a sixth year at $70 million, or do we have to match the other offer EXACTLY?

If Atlanta scratch that if JJ signs an offer sheet with Atlanta the Phoenix Suns either have to match it or let him go. If they match it they will pay him just like it was they that made the offer in the first place.

Besides, why would he settle for $70 million over 6 seasons when he can get the same in 5 seasons?

Joe

 

[Yuma]

If Atlanta scratch that if JJ signs an offer sheet with Atlanta the Phoenix Suns either have to match it or let him go. If they match it they will pay him just like it was they that made the offer in the first place.

Besides, why would he settle for $70 million over 6 seasons when he can get the same in 5 seasons?

Joe

He would have to "settle" because we are Matching the $70 million, and when we match it's out of his hands to accept. He has to take our match. That's why I want to know if it's just the total dollars we have to match, or ALL the terms, too.

 

[sunsfn]

JJ can not sign an offer sheet until the 22nd.

The suns can still agree to something with him before that.

 

[sunsfn]

He would have to "settle" because we are Matching the $70 million, and when we match it's out of his hands to accept. He has to take our match. That's why I want to know if it's just the total dollars we have to match, or ALL the terms, too.

If they sign him to an offer sheet, and then we match, we match exactly what they have offered him.

The 20 mil up front, the 5 years, the whole deal etc.

 

[Joe Mama]

He would have to "settle" because we are Matching the $70 million, and when we match it's out of his hands to accept. He has to take our match. That's why I want to know if it's just the total dollars we have to match, or ALL the terms, too.

Yuma, use your head man.

Of course it's all the terms and not just the total of the deal. Nobody would ever re-sign their own restricted free agents to the max if all they had to do was just match the total of another team, and they could force another year on the contract.

It's all the terms.

Joe Mama

 

[Yuma]

If they sign him to an offer sheet, and then we match, we match exactly what they have offered him.

The 20 mil up front, the 5 years, the whole deal etc.

Thanks! That's all I wanted to know. I don't know why the Suns can't counter with something before the 22cnd. Either way, he has to wait to sign with us if I read the articles correctly.

I wonder if the Suns will sign Bell, JJ, and our "mystery" $1.5 million exception guy all on the same day?

 

[Yuma]

Yuma, use your head man.

Of course it's all the terms and not just the total of the deal. Nobody would ever re-sign their own restricted free agents to the max if all they had to do was just match the total of another team, and they could force another year on the contract.

It's all the terms.

Joe Mama

You could have just told me that several posts ago WITHOUT being disparraging! I haven't seen the new CBA. So I thought I asked a reasonable question! Sheesh!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Thanks! That's all I wanted to know. I don't know why the Suns can't counter with something before the 22cnd. Either way, he has to wait to sign with us if I read the articles correctly.

I wonder if the Suns will sign Bell, JJ, and our "mystery" $1.5 million exception guy all on the same day?

The Suns certainly are trying to negotiate better terms right now. They know what Atlanta's offer will be and they are trying to avoid some parts of it that are not advantageous for the Suns. ESPN has been reporting that the process is not going well for the Suns and that JJ will sign an offer sheet, that the Suns will match.

When a player really wants to stay with his old team, he allows them to match without actually signing with another team. This avoids all the frontloading and other details (trade kickers etc) that are not much consequence to the player but are meant to deter the former team from matching.

If he really wants to leave, he signs such a detail laden contract and hopes that his former team will not have the stomach to commit to them.

Rumored accounts at this point seem to indicate that JJ's agent is choosing option #2. If he really wants to stay with the Suns, the only reason for him doing this is to try to squeeze out a bigger overall offer from the Suns. Its hardball negotiating and hopefully no one will get bruised too badly in the process.

 

[Yuma]

The Suns certainly are trying to negotiate better terms right now. They know what Atlanta's offer will be and they are trying to avoid some parts of it that are not advantageous for the Suns. ESPN has been reporting that the process is not going well for the Suns and that JJ will sign an offer sheet, that the Suns will match.

I'm not sure why JJ's camp is being so difficult about this.

Because he wants a Max contract. We are obviously unwilling to give him a six year Max contract. I just hope we don't alienate him in the process.

 

[SweetD]

Nothing can be done until the 22nd anyways. There is still alot of time left. We can give him a six year contract but it will not be for the max. If he wants max money JJ will have to waite to sign the offer sheet on the 22nd.

 

[JPlay]

He's not worth the max...we're getting screwed. This is finacially going to strap the Suns for years.

 

[Chaplin]

He's not worth the max...we're getting screwed. This is finacially going to strap the Suns for years.

It hasn't happened yet. And you are the classic example of overexaggeration right now.

 

[elindholm]

It's true that he's not worth the max. However, the financial strapping will be much easier to take if the contract is front-loaded. Get as much of the payment possible out of the way now, before Stoudemire's extension kicks in.

 

[devilalum]

The main reason the Suns will match is not necessarily because they see JJ as a long term member of the org.

The main reason they will match is that it will give them a valuable piece to use.

I remember Jerry talking about signing Marbury. He said the main reason they locked him up was to retain a valuable piece that could either play for the team or be traded if it benefited the team.

Letting JJ walk for nothing would be stupid. If the Suns get in financial trouble in a year or so JJ will be one more piece they can trade to simultaneously cut salary AND get younger, cheaper players and/or picks.

JJ will be worth a lot more signed than he would be in a sign and trade.

Best case scenario, the Suns match JJ and win a championship.

Worst case scenario (barring some catastrophic injury), the Suns sign JJ have a disappointing season then trade either him or some other player for a piece that they feel makes them better.

 

[devilalum]

It's true that he's not worth the max. However, the financial strapping will be much easier to take if the contract is front-loaded. Get as much of the payment possible out of the way now, before Stoudemire's extension kicks in.

I don't think it works that way. I believe even though he gets all that money up front the cap hit is spread over the term of the contract. Kind of like a signing bonus.

 

[sunsfn]

I think this applies to the offer from Atlanta.
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60. How about signing bonuses? Are they allowed? How do they count against the cap?

Teams are allowed to offer the players they sign a bonus worth as much as 25% of the total compensation, and may do so whether or not the team is over the cap. If a player has a signing bonus, that bonus is averaged among the guaranteed years of the contract (not including any option years) and added to the team salary during those years. This can create a problem if the player is signed to an exception or to the maximum salary. For instance, if the Mid-Level exception is $5 million, then a team could sign a player to a five-year contract with 10% rasises, as follows:


Year
Salary
1
$5,000,000
2
$5,500,000
3
$6,000,000
4
$6,500,000
5
$7,000,000
Total
$30,000,000

The maximum (25%) signing bonus is $7,500,000, It must be allocated in equal proportion to each season of the contract ($1,500,000 per season, assuming no option years). This means that in order to fit the first-year salary plus the portion of the signing bonus allocated to the first season within the $5 million exception, the first-year salary must be reduced:

Year
Base salary
Portion of signing bonus
Total
1
$3,846,154
$1,153,846
$5,000,000
2
$4,230,769
$1,153,846
$5,384,616
3
$4,615,385
$1,153,846
$5,769,231
4
$5,000,000
$1,153,846
$6,153,846
5
$5,384,616
$1,153,846
$6,538,462
Total
$23,076,924

$28,846,155

Note that in order to fit the first-year amount (salary plus bonus) within the $5 million exception, the first year salary had to be reduced to $3,846,154 (20/26ths of the amount of the exception). This also has the effect of reducing the total contract by $1,153,845, which is the repurcussion of giving the player money up-front.

In addition, the following are treated like signing bonuses:

• Payments in excess of $350,000 that are made to non-NBA teams or federations to release rights to a player.
• Option buy-out amounts .

 

[JPlay]

It hasn't happened yet. And you are the classic example of overexaggeration right now.

It hasn't happened yet, but it's all over every sports website that Atlanta will offer the max. Start living in reality, because it's a huge possibility.

 

[Chaplin]

It hasn't happened yet, but it's all over every sports website that Atlanta will offer the max. Start living in reality, because it's a huge possibility.

Are you kidding me? I need to start living in reality?? That's rich.

You're acting like you should be on suicide watch or something.

 

[JPlay]

Are you kidding me? I need to start living in reality?? That's rich.

You're acting like you should be on suicide watch or something.

Now you're the one overreacting.

 

[elindholm]

I don't think it works that way. I believe even though he gets all that money up front the cap hit is spread over the term of the contract. Kind of like a signing bonus.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that the financial strapping of being stuck behind immovable contracts won't be as bad. If Johnson gets, whatever, $38 million in the first two years of his deal, he'll be owed only $32 million over the last three. That will make him a lot easier to trade, if necessary, even though it won't make cap management per se any easier.

 

[sunsfn]

This is on ESPN talk with Scoop Jackson. Some of his answers on all subjects seem to be off the cuff, but here is what he said about the JJ deal.
Read all of them..........
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Nyanati( Gilbert, AZ): You think that PHX will pay $70M for JJ and have 4 players making the max in marion, JJ, Nash and Amare( Extension) putting themselves in high luxury tax situation?

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Scoop Jackson: I don't think they'll match, but i still think JJ stays. And even if they did match, the Colangelo's can afford the lux tax. Trust me.

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I thought I would leave this one beolw in..........
Lee (Bensalem0: How did you get your job at ESPN? Everything you have written for ESPN, I have read and wished I could have had those minutes back. Recently, I have wised up and refuse to read anything you write.

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Scoop Jackson: can I speak at your funeral?
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Get a new job Scoop: Scoop you are an idiot. Do you know how free agency works? If the Hawks have a verbal offer sheet that JJ has agreed to sign the Suns HAVE to match in order to keep him. Also every website in the world has the Hawks trading Harrington for either a center or point guard. Stick with the sneaker questions because you stink. And yes I have nothing better to do than stay in this chat!

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Scoop Jackson: Fam, i know how free agency works. Very well, to be exact. all i'm doing is writing my opinions, I'm not playing GM here, so chill. If i'm wrong, I'm wrong. Simple as that. Truth is every athlete in free agent situations have a chance to make a second opinion before they sign the actual contract - not the offer sheet. If JJ decides to stay with PHX even though they don't match the offere sheet, it's his choice. I'm not saying that it happens often, or that it happens at all, i'm just saying i still think there's a chance that he stays in PHX.
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[Chaz]

So he is saying JJ might not even sign the offer sheet?


I agree, I think this is mostly a ploy to get the Suns to raise their offer.

Either way JJ will cost the Suns a lot next season. Maybe 6 years 75 Million?
More security, more guaranteed money, and a better team. It sounds like a better deal than the Hawks can offer.