Suns to sign Jordan McRae to 10 day contract

[JCSunsfan]

Not too many here have suggested he'd draw anything much of value in return, just one poster comes to mind for me. And I think that person is more than balanced by the other poster who said the most he's worth is a late first rounder. Right now, I don't think any of us have a clue what he's worth. With the exception of maybe a 2 week stretch he's played very poorly this season. I guess it's possible someone will want him based on the first half of last season but I doubt it. We're probably stuck with him until we rehabilitate his game. The only thing I'm not worried about is his contract. If he plays like even just an average starter it won't be an issue.

This. He is a scorer and that is marketable. His game will be rehabilitated once he does not have to play pg. He was actually decently effective as a 2 alongside Bledsoe early on.

Some have suggested he would be worth DeAngelo Russell. If that is the case it would be because Russell's value has dropped since the draft. But, really, we have no idea what he is worth at the moment. I cannot see how it makes sense to trade him at the moment.

It may be that any trade made before this deadline, except maybe something including PJ, Chandler or Archie, would be a bad one. McD is holding out for better value on Kieff. And I doubt he is really trying to move Knight.

It actually makes sense to hold out for value on Kieff. His trade value really can't be much lower than it is right now, and we are not trying to win now. The stars might align with some team that needs a pf stop gap for a playoff run--probably for depth. I could see Cleveland or the Clippers with that need. We have time to wait for the timing to be right.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's this board's modus operandi. We tend to grossly overestimate the value of our own players and assets, and when someone points that out, they tend to get labeled as haters, stupid, etc.

I think there is one guy who engages in that for sure but on the whole we've had a tendency to get surprised by what value our departing guys have landed in trades.

That said, no chance Knight is worth a lotto pick right now. I could see us sending him to some contender, taking a lot of garbage back in contracts and a pick or two but with lots of protection on them.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've been pleased (thus far) that McDonough doesn't get the short end of the stick in trades as well.

 

[elindholm]

I've been pleased (thus far) that McDonough doesn't get the short end of the stick in trades as well.

Remind me what he got for All-Star Isaiah Thomas?

 

[Mainstreet]

Remind me what he got for All-Star Isaiah Thomas?

The Suns signed Isaiah Thomas as a free agent and traded him for a first round draft pick. Personally I would have liked to have kept Thomas but McDonough deserves credit for signing him. The Suns were a mess with three guards all wanting to start at PG.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Remind me what he got for All-Star Isaiah Thomas?

That's not really fair. Thomas was not regarded that highly at the time (we signed him for peanuts) and I don't think he is even regarded that highly now. He is a stat stuffer on a bad team. He does not have a role as a starter on a contender.

Could he have gotten more for him at that moment? I sincerely doubt it. Was it time to move him? Yup.

Is this just you being snarky?

 

[elindholm]

Is this just you being snarky?

Apparently, since that's the stock rebuttal now to anything I write.

The Celtics are tied with Atlanta for #4 in the East. Thomas was voted an All-Star by the coaches.

The Suns did a good job by signing him for cheap, but it was undermined by not having a plan with Bledsoe or especially with the 3-PG rotation. To extricate themselves from that error, they basically gave Thomas away. If McDonough and the rest of the front office had been able to see the disaster coming, they could have at least moved Thomas earlier, and gotten a better return on him. Instead, there was endless posturing about whether they would or would not trade Dragic, and by the time it was obvious to the rest of the league that their hand was forced, they'd forfeited the opportunity to get any value.

 

[Mainstreet]

Apparently, since that's the stock rebuttal now to anything I write.

The Celtics are tied with Atlanta for #4 in the East. Thomas was voted an All-Star by the coaches.

The Suns did a good job by signing him for cheap, but it was undermined by not having a plan with Bledsoe or especially with the 3-PG rotation. To extricate themselves from that error, they basically gave Thomas away. If McDonough and the rest of the front office had been able to see the disaster coming, they could have at least moved Thomas earlier, and gotten a better return on him. Instead, there was endless posturing about whether they would or would not trade Dragic, and by the time it was obvious to the rest of the league that their hand was forced, they'd forfeited the opportunity to get any value.

You wanted to know what the Suns got for signing free agent PG Isaiah Thomas in the off season. This was the question.

He is a player other teams had an opportunity to sign for a reasonable contract. At least the Suns seen the value in signing him. The Suns received a first round draft pick in return which cannot simply be minimized by making the waters murky about other moves.

 

[Catlover]

We didn't sign Isaiah outright, we traded Alex Oriakhi for him. Kings fans spoke of Thomas as a liability on the court and in the locker room and it seemed to me they were even more one-sided about him than Bucks fans were about Knight. We were struggling on the court and apparently in the locker room and many fans here put those struggles on the shoulders of Thomas. Getting a first round pick wasn't unreasonable at the time.

 

[SirStefan32]

The Suns signed Isaiah Thomas as a free agent and traded him for a first round draft pick. Personally I would have liked to have kept Thomas but McDonough deserves credit for signing him. The Suns were a mess with three guards all wanting to start at PG.

But those are two separate things. He traded an all-star for a crappy first-round pick. The fact that he signed IT to a decent contract is irrelevant. Hell, he turned the Laker's pick (Yes, I know it was technically two different deals)into Knight, who may give him back a late first-round pick. I am all for giving credit where credit is due, but we should also be honest about shortcomings as well.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't understand how anyone can think the Suns got the better end of trading IT. Sure they got a 1st round pick but it's Clevelands pick and they have the best player in the game. Getting a 1st from Cleveland on draft day would probably take $3 million cash. IT played well in Phoenix and has continued playing well in Boston, they are a playoff team now. If they traded him for an unprotected Celtics 1st rounder then I think it would have been fair. Of course Boston is playing good this year but at the time of the trade it would have been a good gamble, instead they got an expiring contract and one of the worst valued 1st rounders available. On top of the pick being a late round choice it has protection on it so they couldn't even hope it would gain value if something happened and Cleveland fell apart.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Apparently, since that's the stock rebuttal now to anything I write.

The Celtics are tied with Atlanta for #4 in the East. Thomas was voted an All-Star by the coaches.

The Suns did a good job by signing him for cheap, but it was undermined by not having a plan with Bledsoe or especially with the 3-PG rotation. To extricate themselves from that error, they basically gave Thomas away. If McDonough and the rest of the front office had been able to see the disaster coming, they could have at least moved Thomas earlier, and gotten a better return on him. Instead, there was endless posturing about whether they would or would not trade Dragic, and by the time it was obvious to the rest of the league that their hand was forced, they'd forfeited the opportunity to get any value.

Sorry. Its the first time I've used it. You cannot have that high of an opinion of IT.

 

[Catlover]

I don't understand how anyone can think the Suns got the better end of trading IT. Sure they got a 1st round pick but it's Clevelands pick and they have the best player in the game. Getting a 1st from Cleveland on draft day would probably take $3 million cash. IT played well in Phoenix and has continued playing well in Boston, they are a playoff team now. If they traded him for an unprotected Celtics 1st rounder then I think it would have been fair. Of course Boston is playing good this year but at the time of the trade it would have been a good gamble, instead they got an expiring contract and one of the worst valued 1st rounders available. On top of the pick being a late round choice it has protection on it so they couldn't even hope it would gain value if something happened and Cleveland fell apart.

He played at least as well when he was in Sacramento yet they let him go for Alex Oriakhi. Even if we get the last pick in the draft that's still a better deal than what we sent away. And not too many people thought he was playing well in Phoenix. Fans were complaining that he was getting his own numbers at the expense of the team, that he was a historically poor defender and that he was a key reason the team chemistry had turned sour. But you're right, we did not get the better end of the deal. He might not be worth an unprotected pick but he's certainly better than the Cleveland pick will likely be. But at the time of the trade, it wasn't a bad deal.

 

[Phrazbit]

I feel like people are trying to have it both ways. Prior to dumping IT the narrative seemed to be "we'd have to include a pick just to get rid of this cancer ", then we trade him and we got jipped.

 

[Hoop Head]

I feel like people are trying to have it both ways. Prior to dumping IT the narrative seemed to be "we'd have to include a pick just to get rid of this cancer ", then we trade him and we got jipped.

I understand your point but I wasn't for trading IT. I thought it was a mistake if we were so dedicated to this 2 PG system to trade off 2 of the 3 PG's we had. I know a Bledsoe/IT backcourt would have been a defensive nightmare but I think that falls on management more than anything. They should have taken into account that 2 of the PG's they acquired couldn't play together without hurting the team in some way. Sure, either Bledsoe or IT could have played with Dragic but the team was building around Bledsoe once they resigned him and they already had IT on board. After Dragic asked out they didn't know what to do with IT so they unloaded him without having to give up any assets.

 

[Mainstreet]

We didn't sign Isaiah outright, we traded Alex Oriakhi for him. Kings fans spoke of Thomas as a liability on the court and in the locker room and it seemed to me they were even more one-sided about him than Bucks fans were about Knight. We were struggling on the court and apparently in the locker room and many fans here put those struggles on the shoulders of Thomas. Getting a first round pick wasn't unreasonable at the time.

I keep forgetting that the rights to Oriakhi was included to make this a sign and trade. As I recall Thomas could have been signed outright as a free agent by the Suns. There must have been incentive for both teams to do it this way. Maybe the Suns wanted to accommodate the Kings in getting Oriakhi.

 

[Mainstreet]

But those are two separate things. He traded an all-star for a crappy first-round pick. The fact that he signed IT to a decent contract is irrelevant. Hell, he turned the Laker's pick (Yes, I know it was technically two different deals)into Knight, who may give him back a late first-round pick. I am all for giving credit where credit is due, but we should also be honest about shortcomings as well.

Isaiah Thomas was not an All-Star when the Suns traded him for a first round pick. Obviously the Suns could have traded IT for more if everyone thought he would be an All-Star. I think IT was always undervalued until he went to the Celtics. However, at least the Suns seen the value in signing him. One can't always look at things in hindsight.

 

[SirStefan32]

Isaiah Thomas was not an All-Star when the Suns traded him for a first round pick. Obviously the Suns could have traded IT for more if everyone thought he would be an All-Star. I think IT was always undervalued until he went to the Celtics. However, at least the Suns seen the value in signing him. One can't always look at things in hindsight.

When doing analysis, you HAVE to look at things in hindsight. We got the short end of the stick on the Knight trade and IT trade, so some of us are not convinced we will get a better deal for other players too. That is a logical position.

 

[Hoop Head]

Considering what IT was brought in for and what he got the team in return it's basically a wash. Maybe he added a little more than what it took to acquire him but they basically hit the reset button and got him off the books. Suns fans may overvalue their players but I think it's safe to say the Suns sold low on Thomas and bought high on Knight. They got fair value on Dragic also. So they didn't really win the day but they gained assets for the future in place of being competitive now. Hindsight may make everything look better for the Suns, in the future, but with the team struggling now and going from being a playoff team before all the reshuffling to the wheels falling off completely at last years deadline makes examining those trades more lopsided. The team then went into a hard sell with the fan base convincing them they'd be just as competitive without the risk of having to reset at the deadline this year but that was fools gold. All of those deadline deals set us up better for the future and would have been easier to accept if the team admitted they went into tank & rebuild mode at the deadline last year.

 

[elindholm]

Sorry. Its the first time I've used it. You cannot have that high of an opinion of IT.

I didn't when he was with the Suns, although he was probably my favorite of the three PGs, because he had the most consistent mid-range game, and that opened up the rest of his (and the team's) offense. From what little I've seen of the Celtics this season, he looks very good, but it could be a fluke.

But that's not the point. I'm not paid millions of dollars a year to be an expert in assessing the value of NBA players. McDonough is. We should expect that he routinely makes decisions that initially puzzle us but make sense in retrospect. In fact, the opposite is true. He makes decisions that seem to more or less make sense at the time, but in hindsight turn out to be blunders. In other words, he's doing pretty much exactly the same quality of job that this board would, if we took a consensus. That's an awfully low standard.

 

[Catlover]

When doing analysis, you HAVE to look at things in hindsight. We got the short end of the stick on the Knight trade and IT trade, so some of us are not convinced we will get a better deal for other players too. That is a logical position.

We bought something for a nickel, we sold it for 70 cents and now it appears to be worth a buck. I'm okay with the process there.

 

[elindholm]

We bought something for a nickel, we sold it for 70 cents

How do you figure? Late first-round picks are cheap; often, come draft time, teams are practically willing to give them away. You know that the pick is this year's Cleveland pick, right?

A better analogy is that you bought $100 worth of lottery tickets, one of them turned out to be a $1000 winner, and you sold that winner for $200 after you knew what you had.

 

[Errntknght]

I may well be wrong but didn't the Suns hope to keep Goran when they traded IT? Even if Goran had told them he still wanted to go at that point, they might have hoped he'd change his mind once IT's departure was a fait accompli? They certainly made the trade with Boston in very quick time.

 

[Catlover]

I may well be wrong but didn't the Suns hope to keep Goran when they traded IT? Even if Goran had told them he still wanted to go at that point, they might have hoped he'd change his mind once IT's departure was a fait accompli? They certainly made the trade with Boston in very quick time.

They knew Goran was gone no matter what by the time they actually finalized the deal. But I still believe the agreement was in place for some time prior to the deadline and was initially made in an effort to appease Goran's camp.

 

[Mainstreet]

They knew Goran was gone no matter what by the time they actually finalized the deal. But I still believe the agreement was in place for some time prior to the deadline and was initially made in an effort to appease Goran's camp.

I totally agree with this take. The trade was in place with IT before Goran pulled a trade me demand at the trade deadline. McDonough is smart enough never to renege on an agreement less he lose his credibility as a GM. So the IT trade was made. I think this may be one of the reasons McDonough was so angry with Goran.