Suns @ TWolves 2/20/15

[Mainstreet]

No, perception is not reality. Reality is reality. Perception CAN effect reality, IF people believe in bs, which is what perception IS. Sadly people DO allow perception to impact reality, thus BS effects reality, and I accounted for it.

But it doesn't always matter, if the person, in this case, the FA, doesn't believe in the BS.

Sometimes they will and sometimes they won't. It depends. Plus THIS situation won't always matter. It will ONLY matter, during FA, and not to everyone. So it's a sometimes thing, and only with 1/3 of the avenues available us to improve.

Ultimately it comes down to who we want. Do they believe the BS? 0 or 1.

The fact is I REALIZE THIS IS THE TRUTH. So I can say it does matter and doesn't and be right about it.

So what's the prognosis doc. Am I seeing things that aren't there?

 

[CardsFan88]

So what's the prognosis doc. Am I seeing things that aren't there?

lol

The key is to make everyone you try to buy from perceive your dollar bill as hundo's and then even if you only have 12 bucks or so, you can pick up an ounce of gold.

Or maybe take a dollar and get some clear glasses lol

I don't think this worked for Warren Sapp the night after the Superbowl. The force was not strong with him.

 

[BC867]

No, perception is not reality. Reality is reality. Perception CAN effect reality, IF people believe in bs, which is what perception IS. Sadly people DO allow perception to impact reality

I was going to disagree with your first sentence because perception is reality in that it must be dealt with. It may or may not be true (in someone else's opinion), but it is a factor. That doesn't make it BS, BTW.

Then I saw that you are saying pretty much the same thing. That people do allow perception to impact reality.

Living life is about dealing with people. Their perceptions and opinions as well as facts.

Such as on this board. If everyone had the same perceptions and opinions, it would have no need to exist.

 

[CardsFan88]

I was going to disagree with your first sentence because perception is reality in that it must be dealt with. It may or may not be true (in someone else's opinion), but it is a factor. That doesn't make it BS, BTW.

Then I saw that you are saying pretty much the same thing. That people do allow perception to impact reality.

Living life is about dealing with people. Their perceptions and opinions as well as facts.

Such as on this board. If everyone had the same perceptions and opinions, it would have no need to exist.

Exactly I just think people need to start from this base, and try to keep things reality based (or as much as you can given that we are all human). Then from there, if you notice people can't be budged from the bs, even through all the reason in the world, you take that into account, and take a course of action.

Think of it like Idiocracy, where 'Not Sure' couldn't get them to believe they needed to water crops instead of irrigating them with Brawndo.

Eventually he gave up on reason and told them he could talk to plants.

 

[BC867]

... if you notice people can't be budged from the bs ...

My perception of your posts is that when you say "bs", your are referring to any opinion that is not the same as yours.

Do you really believe that your opinions are facts and any dissenting opinions are "bs"?

That is a debate tactic. It won't win people over to your point of view.

 

[sunsfan88]

My perception of your posts is that when you say "bs", your are referring to any opinion that is not the same as yours.

Do you really believe that your opinions are facts and any dissenting opinions are "bs"?

That is a debate tactic. It won't win people over to your point of view.

People tend to do this a lot on online forums and its incredibly annoying. My best friend used to date a girl back in college who had that type of attitude and need less to say he ended things with her pretty quick and he's now a dentist while last I heard she is working full time as a cashier at a nearby Target.

I don't get why everyone's opinions can't be respected unless of course its an obvious attempt at trolling. I differ with others opinions all the time and yet I don't attack them or their opinion unless its done to me first.

 

[Phrazbit]

I differ with others opinions all the time and yet I don't attack them or their opinion unless its done to me first.

Now THAT is some BS.

 

[Errntknght]

In fact, there is only perception at the root of everything. How would anyone go about avoiding it... or any animal, for that matter. Moreover, most of our perceptions undergo a lot of mental processing, including heavy filtering, that we are not aware of - the sheer volume of data is far beyond the amount we can consciously process so it is truly unavoidable.

For most of us our brains classify every object we see before we are aware of seeing it - we know that because there are a few people who's brains don't do it. They have to focus on something in order to classify it and it can make for great difficulties in their lives. One such person is Temple Grandin and she has written books about it - I read one called 'Animals in Translation'. Try it and the idea that there is a lot going on in our brains which we aren't aware of won't seem so foreign.

Every once in a while we are made aware of the time lag (about 20 milliseconds) because we will 'instinctively' react to something - a snake like shape is one such thing and another is any object rapidly approaching directly at us. Those are recognized along a separate 'fast track' and people typically say they reacted before they saw it - which means before their brains classified it along the normal pathway to awareness.

Anyway, remember that anytime you think you are perceiving reality you are wrong - unless your brain is seriously defective.

 

[elindholm]

lol

The key is to make everyone you try to buy from perceive your dollar bill as hundo's and then even if you only have 12 bucks or so, you can pick up an ounce of gold.

Or maybe take a dollar and get some clear glasses lol

I don't think this worked for Warren Sapp the night after the Superbowl. The force was not strong with him.

Exactly I just think people need to start from this base, and try to keep things reality based (or as much as you can given that we are all human). Then from there, if you notice people can't be budged from the bs, even through all the reason in the world, you take that into account, and take a course of action.

Think of it like Idiocracy, where 'Not Sure' couldn't get them to believe they needed to water crops instead of irrigating them with Brawndo.

Eventually he gave up on reason and told them he could talk to plants.

Are you aware that you make no sense at all? I keep thinking this has to be an act.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, perception is not reality. Reality is reality. Perception CAN effect reality, IF people believe in bs, which is what perception IS. Sadly people DO allow perception to impact reality, thus BS effects reality, and I accounted for it.

But it doesn't always matter, if the person, in this case, the FA, doesn't believe in the BS.

Sometimes they will and sometimes they won't. It depends. Plus THIS situation won't always matter. It will ONLY matter, during FA, and not to everyone. So it's a sometimes thing, and only with 1/3 of the avenues available us to improve.

Ultimately it comes down to who we want. Do they believe the BS? 0 or 1.

The fact is I REALIZE THIS IS THE TRUTH. So I can say it does matter and doesn't and be right about it.

the more important fact is YOU ARE NOT AN NBA PLAYER... or someone able to effect how the media reports on the situation, so it really doesn't matter what YOU think in regards to how our franchise is perceived.

 

[3rdside]

while YOU may believe this (and I don't deify Dragic AT ALL... I thought the way he handled this stunk), the public perception from pretty much the entire media (and likely the players who can't believe he was traded) is STILL that he was the good guy here who got shafted by our plethora of PG acquisitions.



What you WANT people/media to believe about Dragic and what they do ACTUALLY believe is a VERY different thing. Now you can keep calling people fools for perpetuating this, but you're only fooling yourself if you don't see public perception throughout the league is that we completely bungled the situation. No one is slamming Dragic like a Melo in this case, except half of Suns nation... and we don't really matter.

This.

cardsfan, there's nothing wrong with being a fan of the team - I am, first and foremost - but it's pretty clear you're looking at things with blinkers on. Sure dragic handled the situation badly (I'm starting to think his wife had a big part to play even though ultimate responsibility lies with Dragic), but theres enough public sympathy for him because it's warranted; he's a great guy who got shafted by the Suns.

While others have got to ease off deifying Dragic, you've got to ease off deifying the Suns.


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[Cheesebeef]

This.

cardsfan, there's nothing wrong with being a fan of the team - I am, first and foremost - but it's pretty clear you're looking at things with blinkers on. Sure dragic handled the situation badly (I'm starting to think his wife had a big part to play even though ultimate responsibility lies with Dragic), but theres enough public sympathy for him because it's warranted; he's a great guy who got shafted by the Suns.

While others have got to ease off deifying Dragic, you've got to ease off deifying the Suns.

not only that, it's time to stop villifying those seeing the Suns are part in parcel of what happened as "fools". 88... you consistently state your opinion is FACT, when all it is belief. a belief that I somewhat share, but it's still just that and to continue shred anyone who thinks otherwise as "fools falling for BS" is pretty annoying.

 

[3rdside]

And not to be condescending - really - but shorter responses are better for everyone.


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[3rdside]

IMO anyway, you lost your way in lots of parts in previous dialogue


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[Covert Rain]

Teams do manage to perception. It's a fact. If it wasn't you wouldn't have media relations departments or PR guys. If it didn't matter you wouldn't have teams trade guys or avoid players that have become pariahs in the media or amongst the fans. Teams have proven for example to turn a blind eye to players who misbehave until the heat gets too high.

Perception unfortunately overrides reality sometimes because managing to reality can actually have negative effect. The Suns FO is not very well respected or viewed very favorably around the league. Fair or not, the media talks about it all the time regardless of the facts. That impacts teams like Golden State giving us the middle finger after agreed to trades, that impacts FA players coming here even though we have max contracts available and that impacts what teams think they can get away with during trade negotiations.

One thing that get's hammered home in every management training class I have attended over the years is that perception in essence becomes your reality and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with facts sometimes. Maybe it's better to say Perception doesn't equate to facts but it certainly can become your reality.

 

[CardsFan88]

My perception of your posts is that when you say "bs", your are referring to any opinion that is not the same as yours.

Do you really believe that your opinions are facts and any dissenting opinions are "bs"?

That is a debate tactic. It won't win people over to your point of view.

No, not at all. I respect others opinions HIGHLY, probably more then most people.

In reality, most opinions are BS. I acknowledge that. Maybe people can't handle that truth, but IT IS truth. Not all BS is bad BS. When you are with your real life friends, isn't most of what you say and joke about complete BS? Most opinions are BS, and I'm fine with that. You, me, everyone. This is not a put down. It's a realization that some things we all talk about are pure bs, some is partial, and some are analysis based on facts.

I have clearly stated what perception is, I won't go over it again, but it aligns very much with what DarrenG and others said. The only thing I'll add to that, is that we CAN be above that. Maybe not now, maybe not in this culture, but eventually humans can move beyond that. We live in a very manipulative culture, and right now perception can easily be made to become the reality we live, even if it isn't based on actual factual reality.

Sometimes, that's all there is. It can be good fun BS, it can speculative BS, it can be negative BS...so on and so forth. Perceptions ARE BS. If you let perception run you life, you let bs run your life. While anybody can, it's in their best interest not to, and at any point they can choose not to. Fitz didn't. Dragic did. He believed his agent's or whatever's BS, and it got to him. That he should be the man, or he should be running the team, or whatever. That's all an EGO stroke job. He bought into it.

Whoever, if anyone, got to him, it was the animal in him that reacted like that. Human beings ARE part animal, but what makes us different, is our creative powers. We have the ability to rise above this. That 6th sense we have that animals do not is where actual humanity resides. This is not what Dragic channeling. He was channeling his inner beast.

None of us, ever, should let our EGO get in our way. If we DO, because of money or whatever, then the LEAST you should do, is not go crazy in public like Dragic did.

What Dragic did, was act on the beast within the man, and what McD did to run the Suns, and he had to make decisions, was use his creative powers to add assets. Dragic's mind couldn't handle that. That's the fail point of this entire situation. The weak link in the chain.

None of this would of happened without Dragic losing his head, which while forgivable, and I HAVE and stated so. In that moment indeed he committed an act of a fool. Now is he always a fool? Nope. But in that moment he was.

It doesn't matter if a player is used incorrectly, you don't blow up like he did. I've said time and time again, I understand his frustrations, it still doesn't justify anything he did.

Again, remember ALL the Suns did for him. The Suns did not deserve to be publicly flogged after all they did for him.

Are you aware that you make no sense at all? I keep thinking this has to be an act.

No sense? You mean you took a joke to mean sense? It was pretty obvious it was a joke.

The first quote was an entire joke...Did you even SEE what I was responding to? How can you justify a clear and obvious joke and say I make no sense? The joke also made perfect sense.

Meanwhile the second passage you quoted doesn't make sense to you?

Say for the sake of argument...someone (not you and not me) are arguing over a simple math problem.

2+2 =4

Someone argues it as 5.

You can try to work through it.

If they can't figure it out, you change your course to account that the person you are arguing with cannot grasp what you are saying. It makes perfect sense.

So in this context on the Dragic situation, the main point that I see people can't get over, is what Dragic did was ok, based on how the Suns used him. Thus it's their fault. But as I've said in this post, the weak link was Dragic's mind, not McD's. That's why this whole situation turned ugly.

It's an opinion to say the Suns should be at fault that Dragic went crazy and they deserved what they got. I can't remember who said that, I'm just addressing that point here.

At what point do we draw that line? But the fact is, McD was doing his job, even if it did create a logjam. It's not an opinion to say Dragic shouldn't of reacted like that. It is expected and standard operation procedure for people to expect some level of professionalism. That's not an opinion. It wasn't MY FACT, it is standard operating procedure for teams to add assets and expect whoever is the man out to be professional.

Also since everyone says Dragic is a nice guy, shouldn't the Suns be given a bit more leeway since it WAS Dragic? Fitz didn't go crazy. Thomas didn't go crazy. The FO can't be expected to foresee everything. That's a fact. Not an opinion.

Even if they DID, you'd think you would have time to make a change if you could see it going down that road. Well is it still the Suns fault for not seeing it, when they were in contact with him and everything DRAGIC was telling the Suns was the opposite of how he was reacting. Hornacek even said that right before the break, Dragic seemed COOL if certain things happened. That we offered max money, and everything seemed workable. That all we had to do was trade IT and Dragic would be back to something good, like last year.

I understand that one might think it's a possibility, even I thought it could be a possibility for someone out of the three to be mad. But it is a fact that all GM's expect their players to behave professionally with this stuff.

the more important fact is YOU ARE NOT AN NBA PLAYER... or someone able to effect how the media reports on the situation, so it really doesn't matter what YOU think in regards to how our franchise is perceived.

What does me not being an NBA player have anything to do with it? We're on a message board discussing things, but you are saying the my analysis doesn't matter to anyone? Well yeah, except you felt the need to point it out...why I don't know.

Again we pretty much agree on the basics, but you didn't comprehend what I said. That there are THREE ways a team can improve itself.

1. Free agency (this is where it can have impact...maybe...depending on the player.)
2. Draft...again even if a draft pick thinks we're the worst owner ever...it doesn't matter much does it. I surely don't think a 1st round pick will not report due to this Dragic situation.
3. Trades...again, even if someone we trade for thinks we're the worst owner ever...it doesn't matter much does it...finish off this the same as #2.

So again, maybe you didn't understand my point, so here it is.

Even if every free agent hates us and thinks the Suns are fools, that only handicaps us ONE out of THREE ways. It would hurt, but it doesn't destroy the team's chances to win.

not only that, it's time to stop villifying those seeing the Suns are part in parcel of what happened as "fools". 88... you consistently state your opinion is FACT, when all it is belief. a belief that I somewhat share, but it's still just that and to continue shred anyone who thinks otherwise as "fools falling for BS" is pretty annoying.

Cheese, I didn't vilify you or anyone on this board. NOT YOU OR ANYONE ON THIS BOARD, let me quote myself before I continue...

But when you refer to 'nicest guys in the league'...it's kind of a untrue belief that only fools would believe

It is very true that only a FOOL would believe if ESPN or some free agent chose to believe that AFTER DRAGIC'S FOOLISH and UNPROFESSIONAL tirade in the public, that somehow he was 'nicest guy in the league'.

Maybe I could of been clearer on the point, but I felt the context was there, that we were talking about how a player perceives things.

Fitz showed EXACTLY how DRAGIC could of handled things. No one was suggesting Dragic take a pay cut, but it shows you, under similar circumstance, and by a guy who is probably going to make the HOF, he not only DIDN'T go crazy like Dragic did, he actually chose to stay with the team and take a paycut.

Now if you somehow believe that, you are a fan distanced, and like you said, none of us matter, but it was DIRECTED at WHO YOU WERE AFRAID that this situation would EFFECT. YOU ARE NOT A FOOL IF YOU BELIEVE IT COULD HAPPEN, because as FANS, we tend to look at things beyond our control, and thus it is legitimate for a FAN to believe another human being can BELIEVE IT. I was simply stating, that IF they DO, then that player is a FOOL.

If a PLAYER believes that after how Dragic behaved that he would be against the Suns FO and think they deserved it, and thus wouldn't come here based on how they 'treated their players, like Dragic'...then that PLAYER is a FOOL. There is no way around that. It is not my opinion, it is a factual truism. Nothing new in that statement.

Again, see what perceptions can do? It wasn't reality, but you took it as such. You got all annoyed at me calling the media and/or Players who CHOOSE to believe that piece of sophistry.

You didn't come up with that Cheese, even if you SAID it. This is a thought process we've seen before and will see after, and it's BS if a player believes it. Just because YOU SAID IT IN THE HERE AND NOW, doesn't mean you are the author of it. I knew that. You know that. That is what I'm talking about.

That somehow Dragic is the nicest guy in the league, and if the Suns FORCED Dragic into acting like that...(which implies that Dragic isn't in control of himself, that the Suns FO somehow is). That is complete bull, and cheese you didn't come up with it. We are all in control of ourselves, and if someone chooses to believe someone else controls their fate and emotions...I don't know what to say to that.

I also talked about ESPN and Amin (not administrator, but the ESPN contributor). I don't know how often you've gone to ESPN forums or watched Amin or if you even know who he is, but I am completely spot on with the fact that there are a lot of morons, fools, and ignorant people who talk smack on ESPN.

For the record, I don't deify the Suns, and you all KNOW that. I've had some of the best collection of facts then analyzied on this board against $arver. I don't think anyone else has come close to the beatdown I gave to $arver on this board. But I didn't say that, because I was full of it, it was because the situation proved he was. I call them how I see them.

In this instance, and we can agree to disagree, the crux and overriding factor of ALL of this, that brought EVERYTHING the front office did into question, was the FACT that Dragic's head was weak that day, and he went off against us.

Now to finish this post, it's clear there is a bunch of misunderstandings going on, as always, I never hold anything against anyone on this board. As always, if we ever met, I'm sure we could have a great time. Much ado about nothing lol.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, not at all. I respect others opinions HIGHLY, probably more then most people.

In reality, most opinions are BS. I acknowledge that. Maybe people can't handle that truth, but IT IS truth. Not all BS is bad BS. When you are with your real life friends, isn't most of what you say and joke about complete BS? Most opinions are BS, and I'm fine with that. You, me, everyone. This is not a put down. It's a realization that some things we all talk about are pure bs, some is partial, and some are analysis based on facts.

I have clearly stated what perception is, I won't go over it again, but it aligns very much with what DarrenG and others said. The only thing I'll add to that, is that we CAN be above that. Maybe not now, maybe not in this culture, but eventually humans can move beyond that. We live in a very manipulative culture, and right now perception can easily be made to become the reality we live, even if it isn't based on actual factual reality.

Sometimes, that's all there is. It can be good fun BS, it can speculative BS, it can be negative BS...so on and so forth. Perceptions ARE BS. If you let perception run you life, you let bs run your life. While anybody can, it's in their best interest not to, and at any point they can choose not to. Fitz didn't. Dragic did. He believed his agent's or whatever's BS, and it got to him. That he should be the man, or he should be running the team, or whatever. That's all an EGO stroke job. He bought into it.

Whoever, if anyone, got to him, it was the animal in him that reacted like that. Human beings ARE part animal, but what makes us different, is our creative powers. We have the ability to rise above this. That 6th sense we have that animals do not is where actual humanity resides. This is not what Dragic channeling. He was channeling his inner beast.

None of us, ever, should let our EGO get in our way. If we DO, because of money or whatever, then the LEAST you should do, is not go crazy in public like Dragic did.

What Dragic did, was act on the beast within the man, and what McD did to run the Suns, and he had to make decisions, was use his creative powers to add assets. Dragic's mind couldn't handle that. That's the fail point of this entire situation. The weak link in the chain.

None of this would of happened without Dragic losing his head, which while forgivable, and I HAVE and stated so. In that moment indeed he committed an act of a fool. Now is he always a fool? Nope. But in that moment he was.

It doesn't matter if a player is used incorrectly, you don't blow up like he did. I've said time and time again, I understand his frustrations, it still doesn't justify anything he did.

Again, remember ALL the Suns did for him. The Suns did not deserve to be publicly flogged after all they did for him.



No sense? You mean you took a joke to mean sense? It was pretty obvious it was a joke.

The first quote was an entire joke...Did you even SEE what I was responding to? How can you justify a clear and obvious joke and say I make no sense? The joke also made perfect sense.

Meanwhile the second passage you quoted doesn't make sense to you?

Say for the sake of argument...someone (not you and not me) are arguing over a simple math problem.

2+2 =4

Someone argues it as 5.

You can try to work through it.

If they can't figure it out, you change your course to account that the person you are arguing with cannot grasp what you are saying. It makes perfect sense.

So in this context on the Dragic situation, the main point that I see people can't get over, is what Dragic did was ok, based on how the Suns used him. Thus it's their fault. But as I've said in this post, the weak link was Dragic's mind, not McD's. That's why this whole situation turned ugly.

It's an opinion to say the Suns should be at fault that Dragic went crazy and they deserved what they got. I can't remember who said that, I'm just addressing that point here.

At what point do we draw that line? But the fact is, McD was doing his job, even if it did create a logjam. It's not an opinion to say Dragic shouldn't of reacted like that. It is expected and standard operation procedure for people to expect some level of professionalism. That's not an opinion. It wasn't MY FACT, it is standard operating procedure for teams to add assets and expect whoever is the man out to be professional.

Also since everyone says Dragic is a nice guy, shouldn't the Suns be given a bit more leeway since it WAS Dragic? Fitz didn't go crazy. Thomas didn't go crazy. The FO can't be expected to foresee everything. That's a fact. Not an opinion.

Even if they DID, you'd think you would have time to make a change if you could see it going down that road. Well is it still the Suns fault for not seeing it, when they were in contact with him and everything DRAGIC was telling the Suns was the opposite of how he was reacting. Hornacek even said that right before the break, Dragic seemed COOL if certain things happened. That we offered max money, and everything seemed workable. That all we had to do was trade IT and Dragic would be back to something good, like last year.

I understand that one might think it's a possibility, even I thought it could be a possibility for someone out of the three to be mad. But it is a fact that all GM's expect their players to behave professionally with this stuff.



What does me not being an NBA player have anything to do with it? We're on a message board discussing things, but you are saying the my analysis doesn't matter to anyone? Well yeah, except you felt the need to point it out...why I don't know.

Again we pretty much agree on the basics, but you didn't comprehend what I said. That there are THREE ways a team can improve itself.

1. Free agency (this is where it can have impact...maybe...depending on the player.)
2. Draft...again even if a draft pick thinks we're the worst owner ever...it doesn't matter much does it. I surely don't think a 1st round pick will not report due to this Dragic situation.
3. Trades...again, even if someone we trade for thinks we're the worst owner ever...it doesn't matter much does it...finish off this the same as #2.

So again, maybe you didn't understand my point, so here it is.

Even if every free agent hates us and thinks the Suns are fools, that only handicaps us ONE out of THREE ways. It would hurt, but it doesn't destroy the team's chances to win.



Cheese, I didn't vilify you or anyone on this board. NOT YOU OR ANYONE ON THIS BOARD, let me quote myself before I continue...

But when you refer to 'nicest guys in the league'...it's kind of a untrue belief that only fools would believe

It is very true that only a FOOL would believe if ESPN or some free agent chose to believe that AFTER DRAGIC'S FOOLISH and UNPROFESSIONAL tirade in the public, that somehow he was 'nicest guy in the league'.

Maybe I could of been clearer on the point, but I felt the context was there, that we were talking about how a player perceives things.

Fitz showed EXACTLY how DRAGIC could of handled things. No one was suggesting Dragic take a pay cut, but it shows you, under similar circumstance, and by a guy who is probably going to make the HOF, he not only DIDN'T go crazy like Dragic did, he actually chose to stay with the team and take a paycut.

Now if you somehow believe that, you are a fan distanced, and like you said, none of us matter, but it was DIRECTED at WHO YOU WERE AFRAID that this situation would EFFECT. YOU ARE NOT A FOOL IF YOU BELIEVE IT COULD HAPPEN, because as FANS, we tend to look at things beyond our control, and thus it is legitimate for a FAN to believe another human being can BELIEVE IT. I was simply stating, that IF they DO, then that player is a FOOL.

If a PLAYER believes that after how Dragic behaved that he would be against the Suns FO and think they deserved it, and thus wouldn't come here based on how they 'treated their players, like Dragic'...then that PLAYER is a FOOL. There is no way around that. It is not my opinion, it is a factual truism. Nothing new in that statement.

Again, see what perceptions can do? It wasn't reality, but you took it as such. You got all annoyed at me calling the media and/or Players who CHOOSE to believe that piece of sophistry.

You didn't come up with that Cheese, even if you SAID it. This is a thought process we've seen before and will see after, and it's BS if a player believes it. Just because YOU SAID IT IN THE HERE AND NOW, doesn't mean you are the author of it. I knew that. You know that. That is what I'm talking about.

That somehow Dragic is the nicest guy in the league, and if the Suns FORCED Dragic into acting like that...(which implies that Dragic isn't in control of himself, that the Suns FO somehow is). That is complete bull, and cheese you didn't come up with it. We are all in control of ourselves, and if someone chooses to believe someone else controls their fate and emotions...I don't know what to say to that.

I also talked about ESPN and Amin (not administrator, but the ESPN contributor). I don't know how often you've gone to ESPN forums or watched Amin or if you even know who he is, but I am completely spot on with the fact that there are a lot of morons, fools, and ignorant people who talk smack on ESPN.

For the record, I don't deify the Suns, and you all KNOW that. I've had some of the best collection of facts then analyzied on this board against $arver. I don't think anyone else has come close to the beatdown I gave to $arver on this board. But I didn't say that, because I was full of it, it was because the situation proved he was. I call them how I see them.

In this instance, and we can agree to disagree, the crux and overriding factor of ALL of this, that brought EVERYTHING the front office did into question, was the FACT that Dragic's head was weak that day, and he went off against us.

Now to finish this post, it's clear there is a bunch of misunderstandings going on, as always, I never hold anything against anyone on this board. As always, if we ever met, I'm sure we could have a great time. Much ado about nothing lol.

this is too long dude!!!! But in skimming it, I think if we actually talked about the subject face to face, we wouldn't be much in disagreement.

 

[BC867]

Say for the sake of argument...someone (not you and not me) are arguing over a simple math problem. 2+2 =4

And therein lies the problem.

2+2=4 is a fact.

Whether Dragic was justified in wanting out after being moved from position to position is an opinion. His opinion. The team's opinion. The Press' opinions. Our opinions.

There is a big difference.