Suns updates and discussion for the 2019-20 season

[1Sun]

I think you might be right. As much crap as Kaminsky gets (and some deserved), he would have helped these past few games.

Only on offense, and he would have given up more on defense and in rebounding.

Don't get sucked into James Jones's flawed thought process.

There is more to basketball than shooting and scoring.

 

[WildBB]

CJ and Okobo need to be in the G-League, and TJ's salary needs to be used to acquire more help.

If we are looking beyond Year One of the new regime, we have Rubio, Oubre, Booker and Ayton in the starting line-up and Bridges on the bench.

If, despite appearances, Baynes wants to stick around long term and wants to re-up, I am for Baynes being Ayton's back-up, but only if Baynes plays with the passion and intensity with which he played to start the season, as opposed to that which is is demonstrating now.

That leaves us in need of two power forwards (including a starter), a back-up shooting guard and a back-up point guard.

If James Jones knew what the heck he was doing on draft night, we would already have at least a starting power forward and at least one of those back-ups. Instead, we really are in no better shape long term than we were this time last year.

Good luck...

Baynes is playing good enough. He's not the problem here. He takes charges and takes a beating every night.
I get it, you want results without any development. Results will only occur when you can use the strengths of what you have. Every team has to develop on floor chemistry, and develop your younger players. You don't give up after 30 games. You add more complimentary pieces with stronger areas of ability for what you lack as you go on. This is a WORK IN PROGRESS. Rippi g it apart is no solution right now.
Take what you can for TJ, but don't hamper the off season by making another bad judgement taking on a contract the player won't live to. We got who we got for now.

 

[1Sun]

Baynes is playing good enough. He's not the problem here. He takes charges and takes a beating every night.
I get it, you want results without any development. Results will only occur when you can use the strengths of what you have. Every team has to develop on floor chemistry, and develop your younger players. You don't give up after 30 games. You add more complimentary pieces with stronger areas of ability for what you lack as you go on. This is a WORK IN PROGRESS. Rippi g it apart is no solution right now.
Take what you can for TJ, but don't hamper the off season by making another bad judgement taking on a contract the player won't live to. We got who we got for now.

Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson and Ty Jerome are almost as old as TJ Warren. Saric and Kaminsky have been in the league as long as Booker. There is nothing in the 2020 draft that will be able to contribute for at least 2-3 years. And we are pretty much capped out and now more than ever a destination free agents avoid. The only "younger" players we have are Ayton and Lecque.

What kind of development were you thinking?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Heard a stat today that almost made me drive off the road... Of the 23 losses the Suns currently have, they had a double-digit LEAD in 10 of those losses! If they just won half of those games, they would have a record of 19 & 18, and would have a solid hold on the 8th playoff slot... Incredible...

 

[Hoop Head]

Heard a stat today that almost made me drive off the road... Of the 23 losses the Suns currently have, they had a double-digit LEAD in 10 of those losses! If they just won half of those games, they would have a record of 19 & 18, and would have a solid hold on the 8th playoff slot... Incredible...

That's not that surprising. I'm not saying it's not depressing but I'm curious how many 10 point leads they've overcome to win as well. It seems like no lead is safe nowadays. Almost every day you hear of a team blowing a 20+ point lead when ESPN, or whoever, reports on all of the games from the night before.

Would you know of a site with info like that? I'd like to see how common it is. I'll poke around but if anyone has an idea of where to look, please pass that info along.

 

[Phrazbit]

CJ and Okobo need to be in the G-League, and TJ's salary needs to be used to acquire more help.

As much as I disparage Tyler Johnson's contract as a big time trade chip, I do think that if we were to look at a deal where we'd be getting a couple contracts combined on some bench players from some team that is in the tank... then yes, Johnson could probably be moved in that kind of deal... but we'd be getting some seriously marginal players back.

Something like... Taj Gibson and Elfrid Payton for Tyler Johnson, straight up. That could be workable.

A washed up vet PF and a player I personally think is garbage but maybe a better backup guard option than we currently have... it saves the Knicks 17 million on next season's cap, it gives the Suns some... theoretical depth.

I honestly think that trade would likely be a disaster, because Gibson is washed up and IMO, Payton sucks and it would wreck any chance of adding free agent help this summer... but... that is probably where Tyler Johnson's value lands and it was literally the first team I looked at for workable contracts.

 

[SunnyBaller]

Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson and Ty Jerome are almost as old as TJ Warren. Saric and Kaminsky have been in the league as long as Booker. There is nothing in the 2020 draft that will be able to contribute for at least 2-3 years. And we are pretty much capped out and now more than ever a destination free agents avoid. The only "younger" players we have are Ayton and Lecque.

What kind of development were you thinking?

No one in the draft that's going to contribute for 2-3 years hahaha, as if each year there aren't several rookies doing just that, Ive only been on this forum for a year so I don't know if this is a new thing or if you say it before each draft but it's comical you think that

Now if you were to say you'd doubt the sun's specifically would draft a player who could contribute right away based on their track record I'd buy that

 

[82CardsGrad]

That's not that surprising. I'm not saying it's not depressing but I'm curious how many 10 point leads they've overcome to win as well. It seems like no lead is safe nowadays. Almost every day you hear of a team blowing a 20+ point lead when ESPN, or whoever, reports on all of the games from the night before.

Would you know of a site with info like that? I'd like to see how common it is. I'll poke around but if anyone has an idea of where to look, please pass that info along.

Just my hunch, but I doubt there are many other teams that have had that many double-digit leads that eventually turn into losses.
Yes, the NBA is all about runs, but my view is that if the Suns are good enough to gain that many double-digit leads, they should be good enough to win at least half of them...

 

[Ronin]

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[1Sun]

No one in the draft that's going to contribute for 2-3 years hahaha, as if each year there aren't several rookies doing just that, Ive only been on this forum for a year so I don't know if this is a new thing or if you say it before each draft but it's comical you think that

Now if you were to say you'd doubt the sun's specifically would draft a player who could contribute right away based on their track record I'd buy that

That is exactly what I am saying, particularly in a crap shoot draft where few, if any, players are projected to do so. As we've seen, the Suns', and in particular James Jones's ability to do so in a loaded draft proved nonexistent. In a lousy draft like the upcoming one...

 

[Ronin]

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[Mainstreet]

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Sometimes Cam seems to get happy feet and moves himself off 3 point range when he still has the open shot.

He might want to consider adding a fake to his arsenal and look for some contact as well.

 

[95pro]

Sometimes Cam seems to get happy feet and moves himself off 3 point range when he still has the open shot.

He might want to consider adding a fake to his arsenal and look for some contact as well.

I see this too, getting adjusted to different defenders every night and the speed of them closing out. His next move is to develop a fake, then, side step and shoot. He's a great set shooter, right now he just might be hitting a rookie wall with all the travel and physicality of it all. His shooting mechanics are great enough to get him out of this spell, definitely not a fluke string of shots he's been making.

 

[Mainstreet]

Oh how the Suns have fallen.


Evan Sidery‏ @esidery

The Suns now only have a 6% chance to make the playoffs, per @FiveThirtyEight. Meanwhile, the Suns currently have a 20.3% chance of a top 4 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft.

What a change after being the surprise story of the Association in November.

10:20 PM - 7 Jan 2020

 

[Ronin]

Oh how the Suns have fallen.


Evan Sidery‏ @esidery

The Suns now only have a 6% chance to make the playoffs, per @FiveThirtyEight. Meanwhile, the Suns currently have a 20.3% chance of a top 4 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft.

What a change after being the surprise story of the Association in November.

10:20 PM - 7 Jan 2020

Trending in the wrong direction.

 

[Mainstreet]

Trending in the wrong direction.

And I thought this season would be different.

At least I thought the Suns would be a fun and exciting team that might make a push for the playoffs.

Still remember how Rubio was supposed to feed Ayton in the low post.

 

[Ronin]

And I thought this season would be different.

At least I thought the Suns would be a fun and exciting team that might make a push for the playoffs.

Still remember how Rubio was supposed to feed Ayton in the low post.

Me too. Maybe next year.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Hoop Head]

And I thought this season would be different.

At least I thought the Suns would be a fun and exciting team that might make a push for the playoffs.

Still remember how Rubio was supposed to feed Ayton in the low post.

It is. They hit 14 wins in early January compared to how it took until March last year. The early season playoff talk set a lot of people up for disappointment though. I understand why people are frustrated but taking a step back and looking at the big picture, they are improved and things are trending upward as a whole.

 

[Mainstreet]

It is. They hit 14 wins in early January compared to how it took until March last year. The early season playoff talk set a lot of people up for disappointment though. I understand why people are frustrated but taking a step back and looking at the big picture, they are improved and things are trending upward as a whole.

I understand the logic but this home stand has been disappointing. This is where the Suns were supposed to turn it around.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I understand the logic but this home stand has been disappointing. This is where the Suns were supposed to turn it around.

It's understandable to feel that way and I suspect most of us do, but like Hoop Head said that is an expectation that has been formed by the team overachieving early on.

The truth is they likely aren't making any sort of drastic turnaround unless they make a trade. Of course their is maybe a chance that a couple guys that have been playing poorly step up and it turns things around, but at this point I don't think we can rely on that.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's understandable to feel that way and I suspect most of us do, but like Hoop Head said that is an expectation that has been formed by the team overachieving early on.

The truth is they likely aren't making any sort of drastic turnaround unless they make a trade. Of course their is maybe a chance that a couple guys that have been playing poorly step up and it turns things around, but at this point I don't think we can rely on that.

I don't think the Suns have the players on the roster to turn it around. They may play better for awhile but that is not going to do it.

A trade is the only way to change course. Opponents have found a gaping hole in the Suns interior defense and they keep exploiting it.

If Ayton plays out of mind defensively it could help but there is not enough athleticism at 4/5. Suns are not taking anything from the opponent whether it be at the rim or at 3 point range.

Starting Bridges and Oube at the forward spot would help some but Oubre is not a true power forward at this stage of his career. Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Rubio and Booker are probably their best starting 5.

 

[1Sun]

Sometimes Cam seems to get happy feet and moves himself off 3 point range when he still has the open shot.

He might want to consider adding a fake to his arsenal and look for some contact as well.

All part and parcel of rushing his shot...and he doesn't have the athleticism to sell a fake (nor did he have it even at the college level).

 

[1Sun]

I don't think the Suns have the players on the roster to turn it around. They may play better for awhile but that is not going to do it.

A trade is the only way to change course. Opponents have found a gaping hole in the Suns interior defense and they keep exploiting it.

If Ayton plays out of mind defensively it could help but there is not enough athleticism at 4/5. Suns are not taking anything from the opponent whether it be at the rim or at 3 point range.

Starting Bridges and Oube at the forward spot would help some but Oubre is not a true power forward at this stage of his career. Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Rubio and Booker are probably their best starting 5.

This gaping hole was there going into the offseason and made worse by bringing in Saric, Kaminsky and Cam (and to a lesser extent Baynes, who has more to contribute than the other three, but who also has similar physical deficiencies, namely lack of length and athleticism in the interior).

 

[Mainstreet]

As much as I disparage Tyler Johnson's contract as a big time trade chip, I do think that if we were to look at a deal where we'd be getting a couple contracts combined on some bench players from some team that is in the tank... then yes, Johnson could probably be moved in that kind of deal... but we'd be getting some seriously marginal players back.

Something like... Taj Gibson and Elfrid Payton for Tyler Johnson, straight up. That could be workable.

A washed up vet PF and a player I personally think is garbage but maybe a better backup guard option than we currently have... it saves the Knicks 17 million on next season's cap, it gives the Suns some... theoretical depth.

I honestly think that trade would likely be a disaster, because Gibson is washed up and IMO, Payton sucks and it would wreck any chance of adding free agent help this summer... but... that is probably where Tyler Johnson's value lands and it was literally the first team I looked at for workable contracts.

If I understand it correctly, the Suns should still have Tyler's salary space this summer so if a trade does not work before the trade deadline they can still use it on a free agent then.

A benefit to using it now is that other teams may want to save money by trading a higher salaried player providing the Suns want that player.

 

[1Sun]

If I understand it correctly, the Suns should still have Tyler's salary space this summer so if a trade does not work before the trade deadline they can still use it on a free agent then.

A benefit to using it now is that other teams may want to save money by trading a higher salaried player providing the Suns want that player.

And the Suns are over the cap due to the deals for Booker, Oubre and Rubio, so not all of the number for Tyler Johnson's contract will be available to sign free agents. A trade before the NBA year is over is the only option to get a player for at least $19 million with Tyler's cap space.