Suns updates and discussion for the 2021-22 season

[GatorAZ]

Too bad it doesn't work that way. We have no choice but to give him the max. That's the way the league works now.

There's a huge difference in value for the 4 names mentioned as deserving comparable max contracts and Ayton isn't at the top of that group but he's not at the bottom either - SGA and Porter getting the Max puts us in a horrible situation should we not offer him the same.

I don't know what Mikal will get but players like Terry Rozier are making more than 4/85 and Bridges agent knows that full well. I suspect it will cost us at least 10 mil more over a 4 year deal to sign him but OTOH I was surprised at the contracts CP3 and CamP just signed.

You are right about the market but there’s always been some weirdness with him. He’s had some minor red flags also Paul went on a podcast and said it was difficult working with Ayton but it turned around as we know now. I know this is 100% Sarver according to most but I’m not positive that James Jones is totally pushing for a max extension. Do I have any proof of that? No.

 

[Chaplin]

That's not true. Ayton's usage is down from 23% the prior season to 18% (4th on the team behind Book, CP3, and Payne). His points are down 4/game. He only has a couple of plays in the playbook where he's the primary offensive player.

Ayton wants to expand his game. The coaching staff is asking him to narrow his focus. He's accepted that. Right or wrong, they're only letting him do so much

Look I like Ayton, but to say he is "sacrificing" anything right now is a joke. He has things to work on, the coaches tell him these are the things you need to get better at, etc. Implying that he could have been a better offensive player if he only didn't concentrate more on defense is an extreme reach. Expending a ton of energy on defense isn't sacrificing his offense, it's showing that he can't yet be dominant on both ends. Hopefully he'll get there, but he's physically (and mentally) not capable of it yet.

 

[Yuma]

I feel like no way they let him walk. I see it as a pay me now, or pay me later thing. Where I think it may be stupid for management, is we see how some guys progress to stupid high contracts. Look at CP3. So for me it's cost certainty to sign Ayton now. If we don't sign him, say he has another playoff run for us like he did and we actually win the NBA Championship, how much would we have to pay him then? I imagine his camp has more leverage and it would actually be a higher price. So Phoenix would be betting he does not improve, and we do worse in the playoffs, in order to pay him less in restricted free agency. That's a bad signal to everyone, including the fans.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You are right about the market but there’s always been some weirdness with him. He’s had some minor red flags also Paul went on a podcast and said it was difficult working with Ayton but it turned around as we know now. I know this is 100% Sarver according to most but I’m not positive that James Jones is totally pushing for a max extension. Do I have any proof of that? No.

I think we're giving him the max but I'd expect the front office to try and make it as franchise friendly as possible so I have no issue with waiting through the process. In the end though, I suspect we'll cave unless they have real concerns about his commitment once he gets paid. And by that I mean even greater concerns than most of us already had given DA's earlier comments.

 

[Chaplin]

I think we're giving him the max but I'd expect the front office to try and make it as franchise friendly as possible so I have no issue with waiting through the process. In the end though, I suspect we'll cave unless they have real concerns about his commitment once he gets paid. And by that I mean even greater concerns than most of us already had given DA's earlier comments.

Right, and the organization has proven they are skilled at doing that -- CP3 and Cam Payne (and to a lesser extent Dario) are examples of that.

Everyone is ready to jump off the cliff, when all the information we have is a generic tweet from Woj. I believe there are still negotiations, but we don't know anything about where they are actually at.

 

[Covert Rain]

Right, and the organization has proven they are skilled at doing that -- CP3 and Cam Payne (and to a lesser extent Dario) are examples of that.

Everyone is ready to jump off the cliff, when all the information we have is a generic tweet from Woj. I believe there are still negotiations, but we don't know anything about where they are actually at.

I don't really see anybody jumping off a cliff as much as I see people being annoyed with the team tactics if what is being said is true. Rightfully so IMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't really see anybody jumping off a cliff as much as I see people being annoyed with the team tactics if what is being said is true. Rightfully so IMO.

I don't think anyone is going to be happy if Sarver blows this over what amounts to small dollars.

 

[Hoop Head]

I feel like no way they let him walk. I see it as a pay me now, or pay me later thing. Where I think it may be stupid for management, is we see how some guys progress to stupid high contracts. Look at CP3. So for me it's cost certainty to sign Ayton now. If we don't sign him, say he has another playoff run for us like he did and we actually win the NBA Championship, how much would we have to pay him then? I imagine his camp has more leverage and it would actually be a higher price. So Phoenix would be betting he does not improve, and we do worse in the playoffs, in order to pay him less in restricted free agency. That's a bad signal to everyone, including the fans.

Actually we're just locking him in early. Paying him this summer or next would be the same as far as money goes, unless he makes an All-NBA team and makes himself eligible for 30% of the cap rather than 25%. We still have matching rights on any offer he receives next summer since he'll be a restricted free agent and can offer 1 more year than anyone else as well. So in terms of this season or next, even if we win a title, the money is likely to be the same.

 

[GatorAZ]

Actually we're just locking him in early. Paying him this summer or next would be the same as far as money goes, unless he makes an All-NBA team and makes himself eligible for 30% of the cap rather than 25%. We still have matching rights on any offer he receives next summer since he'll be a restricted free agent and can offer 1 more year than anyone else as well. So in terms of this season or next, even if we win a title, the money is likely to be the same.

Has anyone but Porzingis been given the max after year 4 but before hitting RFA?

 

[Mainstreet]

Other than the fact they’re the best players on their respective teams and lead those teams to the playoffs instead of being a third banana like Ayton.

What if Ayton wasn't the third banana on a good team? He might put up hefty stats as well.

 

[Ronin]

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[Mainstreet]

I don't think anyone is going to be happy if Sarver blows this over what amounts to small dollars.

Also Ayton's contract needs to be viewed in future dollars when NBA revenue will increase.

I'm not sure what the Suns expected to pay him when he scores, rebounds and defends the likes of Nikola Jokic, Anthony Davis and Giannis Antetokounmpo.

The Suns even caught a break when they paid Cam Payne and Chris Paul less money than expected.

 

[Proximo]

Look I like Ayton, but to say he is "sacrificing" anything right now is a joke. He has things to work on, the coaches tell him these are the things you need to get better at, etc. Implying that he could have been a better offensive player if he only didn't concentrate more on defense is an extreme reach. Expending a ton of energy on defense isn't sacrificing his offense, it's showing that he can't yet be dominant on both ends. Hopefully he'll get there, but he's physically (and mentally) not capable of it yet.

Yeah that is ridiculous. He is already going to get the max - which means he can't get paid any more. So the only thing he might be sacrificing is satisfaction of his ego.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What if Ayton wasn't the third banana on a good team? He might put up hefty stats as well.

He might but I don’t think he has the drive to be the top banana and put up insane stats. I mean, even in the playoffs when he started exerting himself more he still wasn’t marching to the FT line.

 

[Proximo]

What if Ayton wasn't the third banana on a good team? He might put up hefty stats as well.

Not likely. He is still pretty bad about generating his own good shot opportunities.

Would he get better quickly if he is put in that role, possibly. But as of this moment he is not a top tier NBA scorer.

 

[Hoop Head]

Has anyone but Porzingis been given the max after year 4 but before hitting RFA?

I'm sure its happened but I can't think of any examples off the top of my head.

Edit - Harrison Barnes did but his situation was weird, he went to Dallas because Golden State signed Durant instead.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not likely. He is still pretty bad about generating his own good shot opportunities.

Would he get better quickly if he is put in that role, possibly. But as of this moment he is not a top tier NBA scorer.

I'm not worried about Ayton being a top tier scorer at this stage of his career so long as he defends, rebounds and plays team basketball. The scoring will come later. I prefer a balanced player.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What if Ayton wasn't the third banana on a good team? He might put up hefty stats as well.

he got benched in the middle of the season in crunch time in multiple games because Monty didn't trust him and needed to send a message. That never has and never would happen to Luka and Trey.

Those guys look like sure HOFers already. Ayton isn't in their class at this point. But he's definitely in or above MPJ or Shai's class. That market was set. This shouldn't be hard. And that's coming from someone who STILL thinks Ayton needs to keep taking steps forward to earn that deal. But reality is, in the NBA you don't necessarily have to earn something before you get it if the market dictates otherwise.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah that is ridiculous. He is already going to get the max - which means he can't get paid any more. So the only thing he might be sacrificing is satisfaction of his ego.

The discussion is the Suns don't presently want to pay Ayton the max rookie contract. At least that is what the media is reporting.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't think anyone is going to be happy if Sarver blows this over what amounts to small dollars.

Oh sure but I don't think everybody is jumping off a cliff saying that is imminent either.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not likely. He is still pretty bad about generating his own good shot opportunities.

Would he get better quickly if he is put in that role, possibly. But as of this moment he is not a top tier NBA scorer.

Ayton and Kyler are such a contrast in their careers. Both of them #1 picks at crucial positions in their respective sports. Kyler has taken MASSIVE steps forward in every season. Ayton took a big step forward defensively last year... even though there were times where he still drifted so much that our HC had to bench him in crunch time. But Kyler doesn't do a lot of talking about being the best. He has just gone out there and gone supernova in different area. Last season, it was with his legs when he was healthy. This season, it's as a dynamite passer. So far, I've seen Ayton regress a little offensively and get better defensively. This is his fourth season. This is the season he SHOULD be putting it all together with a better offensive game to open up the court and become a dominant defender.

whether he can do that, time will tell.

 

[Finito]

It’s one thing to say your willing to spend its another to do it. Sarver has a horrible reputation around the league and this is going to make all the NBA media today.

It doesn’t matter if you think he deserves it or not like it’s been said the market has been set.

Bridges also hasn’t been extended yet either. You can’t let these guys go into this year with this over the head of the team

 

[Mainstreet]

he got benched in the middle of the season in crunch time in multiple games because Monty didn't trust him and needed to send a message. That never has and never would happen to Luka and Trey.

Those guys look like sure HOFers already. Ayton isn't in their class at this point. But he's definitely in or above MPJ or Shai's class. That market was set. This shouldn't be hard. And that's coming from someone who STILL thinks Ayton needs to keep taking steps forward to earn that deal. But reality is, in the NBA you don't necessarily have to earn something before you get it if the market dictates otherwise.

Today, I wouldn't even trade Ayton for Trae Young. The only player that looks to be significantly better from the 2018 draft is Luka. When the Suns drafted Ayton, almost everyone expected a slower trajectory for a center.

I think we agree though, if Shai and Michael Porter Jr. get the max, so should Ayton.

The market has already been set by other NBA teams.

 

[1Sun]

Not likely. He is still pretty bad about generating his own good shot opportunities.

Would he get better quickly if he is put in that role, possibly. But as of this moment he is not a top tier NBA scorer.

True, but he has been literally our ONLY rebounder, rim protector, interior defender and interior scorer. And the only other one we have now is JaVale McGee on a 1 year deal.

 

[Ronin]

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