suns vs blazers

[jbeecham]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
that pass hit him in the chest and if Voskhul was actually looking for the ball like a player should on a pick and roll - he would have had a 5 footer. It wasn't a great pass, but it wasn't a bad pass.(

I thought the pass hit him in the back, maybe it didn't but Jake was never looking in Penny's direction and Penny threw the pass anyways into the paint with 3 Blazers around which makes it a bad pass in my book. Also notice I said that part of the blame is on Jake for not looking for a pass. I actually thought Jake was going to set a back screen for another Suns player and that was why he wasn't looking for the ball.

 

[George O'Brien]

Jake was definitely not ready for the pass. If he was expecting it, he should have handled it. I am inclined to think Jake lost concentration because offensive players should always look for the ball.

It certainly seemed like the hoop had a lid on it for the Suns in the fourth quarter, although the quick 3's did not help.

My question is why Williams was not in during crunch time. He may be the Suns most consistent shooter and the Suns clearly needed help on the boards. (The Blazers had 15 more boards).

I was really surprised that M D'A put in Casey rather than Barbosa near the end. The Suns needed steals not jump shots at that point.

 

[FrustratedSON]

Jeez. Penny was one of the best performers out there. Enough of the nit picking! He should've been in there in the 4th qtr. A guy with so much experience in closing out games and a guy who had a big game should've been in there.

 

[elindholm]

I was really surprised that M D'A put in Casey rather than Barbosa near the end. The Suns needed steals not jump shots at that point.

That surprised me too, especially since Jacobsen came in for Marion. Marion had gotten burned on defense two possessions earlier, then threw up a long-range bomb that wasn't close (or got blocked). Then D'Antoni starting screaming and waving his arms furiously. I got the impression he was royally pissed with Marion and that's why he pulled him.

 

[jbeecham]

One of the positives from this game is that the Suns really didn't shoot many 3's until the 4th qtr. They made a conscious effort to get inside shots and they shot a higher percentage and got more ft's than normal. If they had continued to do that in the 4th then they might have won the game. I think they left the bench players in the game for too long in the beginning of the 4th and the Blazers got out to a 7 pt lead. Still, the starters came back in and erased the lead and went up by 1 and just couldn't finish the last 3 minutes of the game.

 

[Evil Ash]

Originally posted by jbeecham
All of the Suns seemed to pull the same crap in the 4th where they play tentatively and stand around on offense and let the shot clock run down.

Bingo!

For basically the first 45 minutes of the game it seemed like the Suns were moving without the ball and it looked like (other than some bad lapses) they were doing what was needed to make this game winnable. Then it just seemed with 3 minutes left they started becoming tenative and staring at whoever had the ball hoping that they would do something to break the defense (either penetrating the lane or simply put up a jumpshot which was usually a bad one). The worst part about it was that was around the time that the Trailgangsters started to trap.

Sometimes this team is hard to figure out!

 

[George O'Brien]

I was pleased to see that the Suns only shot 9 three's (not pleased they only hit 2 of them). By a not terribly big coincidence, JJ was over 7 of 13 from the field.

It did appear the team was moving better and their assist numbers are looking good. Rediscovering the alley oop pass to Marion is nice, even if it is not used enough.

What's next? Hitting their free throws would be nice. Taking better care of the ball would be good. Learning how to block out when rebounding would be a plus. Learning to stop triple teaming the ball and leaving someone open under the basket would nice too.

 

[cly2tw]

The pass hit the chest, but Jake wasn't expecting it though in good position. That was misunderstanding but mainly Jake's fault for not to anticipate it. Anybody recall the alleyoop dunk Penny to Marion? That was incredible. Penny on the top. Threw the pass while Marion started moving from about the 3-pt line. Caught the pass on the max. height he could have jumped and slammed it. The window of opportunity for a good pass is often so narrow. It takes a Penny to see and utilize them, yet it also needs teammates to pay close attention.

In comparison, Marbury had two dumb passes in the fourth, the behind the back one where he should have layed it up himself, and the one to Marion on a fast-break. I agree with many that Marbury was trying to be to unselfish passing the ball. For one, sometimes it was just a better bet to shoot/layup himself in certain positions. More importantly, if he shoots too little, he's cold (missed the open layup in the last minute as the latest evidence) and can't do the magic in the 4th qtr as last year. So, he needs to get a better balance for the sake of this team's overall chance of winning.

Penny was absolutely money on offense. He might not have got many assists. But his timely passes to White or else where have lead to foul shots and great scoring opportunities. He played in the 4th but not for long. I guess it's because DA wanted a tighter defense. Catch 22. We also got some questionable calls against us, like the foul on Jake when his good positioning caused Zach to throw a bad shot in the last minutes.


JJ also was not bad. His problem seems to be that he needs to take a lot of time to get through the motion of shooting to be shooting a high percentage jumper. When he rushes a bit, due to defense or shot clock pressure, you can bet on a brick. It's really mental and needs a lot of playing time to get used to pressure. Just tell him that he is far from ready and he is now to earn the playing time judged on how well he fulfill coach's assignment. Don't let him think he be a future star or the designated starter at SG. We may get a really good role player out of him still.

But all in all, I like the way they are playing.

 

[George O'Brien]

JJ

JJ also was not bad. His problem seems to be that he needs to take a lot of time to get through the motion of shooting to be shooting a high percentage jumper. When he rushes a bit, due to defense or shot clock pressure, you can bet on a brick.

I think part of it is that he tends to hesitate, which give the opponent time to get into position so he has to rush his shot. Still, he usually does OK when totally wide open. (I still think he gives the ball a side spin, but I cannot be sure).

 

[creed]

Sometimes I wonder if our not so smart chokish team is worth all the analyization bestowed upon it. I mean do they analyize themselves as much as we alalyize them?? If they did would we keep seeing the same things over and over?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

this from the person who claimed the game to be boring........

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Re: Re: And there it is

Originally posted by Joe Mama

BTW, it should be becoming more and more evident to people that Shawn Marion is a defensive liability most nights. He is a good defensive player, but he is just too small to play forward anymore. Amare and Zarko just can't get back fast enough.

I found this a fitting quote

After scoring on a post-up move against Shawn Marion, Wallace was chirping at D'Antoni, a former Portland assistant.

"Not gonna work, Mike," Wallace yelled. "Shawn's too little."

Eventually, it did. Marion held his own defensively on Wallace, who had 15 points. And Marion scored 12 of his 20 points in the third quarter as the Suns appeared ready to take control.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/1219suns1219.html

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Not related to the game really

This is a quote I thought some people might find interesting. I cannot remember who it was, but someone always pointed out that the suns always responded to matchups, instead of creating their own mismatches.

Marbury said former coach Frank Johnson didn't want the guards posting up regularly.

"He wanted to run pick and rolls," he said. "He felt like it was taking too much time (to post up). We played one way instead of looking at matchups and taking advantage of it. We weren't attacking weaknesses."

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/1219sunsnb1219.html

 

[matt_whitlock]

It's so funny that you guys call that pass Penny's "one stupid turnover for the night." I thought Penny's dumb turnover comes at the top of the key, usually to Marbury, where it is picked off for an uncontested layup?

That wasn't a great pass, but it wasn't a lazy pass. In the NBA, if you have an opportunity for a 7 foot jumper, you should take it. Penny got Voskhul just that, and he wasn't paying attention.

But for the people here to call it his lazy pass for the night, that's just dumb. Penny only had 1 turnover tonight, so my question is this: if that wasn't it, then when indeed was his "lazy, stupid pass"?

 

[tobiazz]

Re: Re: And there it is

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Marbury has really been anti-clutch in the fourth quarter this season. Last season he was one of the best clutch players in the NBA. He was missing free throws, he tried a behind back pass that was easily picked off, and then he took a quick jump shot and missed it.

Not to mention the wide open layup he missed.

When the Suns are behind in the final minutes, I think Penny should always play instead of JJ. I'm sure they want JJ to learn to play in the clutch, but how about trying to win a game.

 

[Joe Mama]

Re: Re: Re: And there it is

Originally posted by cly2tw
The pass hit the chest, but Jake wasn't expecting it though in good position. That was misunderstanding but mainly Jake's fault for not to anticipate it.

I agree. I really do not remember any of the lazy passes we have harped about entering last night. I thought Hardaway played a very nice game. I do think D'Antoni is going to start playing him down the stretch. He seems to catch on much more quickly than Frank Johnson.

In comparison, Marbury had two dumb passes in the fourth, the behind the back one where he should have layed it up himself, and the one to Marion on a fast-break.

The behind the back pass was bad, but the pass on the fast-break was partially Marion's fault. He did a poor job of positioning himself, so Marbury could get the ball to him. He ran so close that Wallace was able to easily defend both of them.

We also got some questionable calls against us, like the foul on Jake when his good positioning caused Zach to throw a bad shot in the last minutes.

I don't think I would complain about the officiating last night. I think the Blazers and their fans had every right to complain however. There were a ton of questionable calls and no-calls and went in the Suns favor.

JJ also was not bad. His problem seems to be that he needs to take a lot of time to get through the motion of shooting to be shooting a high percentage jumper. When he rushes a bit, due to defense or shot clock pressure, you can bet on a brick. It's really mental and needs a lot of playing time to get used to pressure. Just tell him that he is far from ready and he is now to earn the playing time judged on how well he fulfill coach's assignment. Don't let him think he be a future star or the designated starter at SG. We may get a really good role player out of him still.

One of the many things that frustrates me about JJ is that particularly at the end of the game he likes to stand dribbling the ball, analyzing the defense, while the shot clock comes down to nothing. I've seen him do it too many times this season. I was happy that JJ and Hardaway were posting up the smaller guards more often. That definitely plays to their strengths.

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I found this a fitting quote

After scoring on a post-up move against Shawn Marion, Wallace was chirping at D'Antoni, a former Portland assistant.

"Not gonna work, Mike," Wallace yelled. "Shawn's too little."

Eventually, it did. Marion held his own defensively on Wallace, who had 15 points. And Marion scored 12 of his 20 points in the third quarter as the Suns appeared ready to take control.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/1219suns1219.html

At final analysis is completely misleading. It was Wallace's size advantage that led to at least half of the Blazers' offense. Without that size advantage I think it would have been a relatively easy victory for the Phoenix Suns.



Joe Mama

 

[scotsman13]

Re: Re: Re: Re: And there it is

Originally posted by Joe Mama
At final analysis is completely misleading. It was Wallace's size advantage that led to at least half of the Blazers' offense. Without that size advantage I think it would have been a relatively easy victory for the Phoenix Suns.



Joe Mama

joe with both zarko and amare out who do you believe that we have that can guard wallace in size and also speed? 7 ft. small forwards are hard match up for almost any team in the nba. part of the problem with wallace is that he has that size and also has very good quickness. zarko (even if he was healthy) at this time isnt a good defender yet. amare has the size to match up with him and quickness but doesnt have the small forward game.

 

[George O'Brien]

Wallace is making a lot of money because he has a unique talent, though he can seem to be more trouble than he's worth. When he is on, he is unstoppable.

My guess is that Zarko and Amare will struggle on defense until they become more experienced. Learning positioning and moving the feet is something that takes a lot of work.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

Originally posted by elindholm
I couldn't watch very carefully, but he was on the floor during the fourth quarter, at least briefly. Perhaps this will refresh your memory: he attempted a thread-the-needle pass from the left elbow to Jake Voskuhl, who was facing the other direction and had the ball bounce off his back. He was pulled shortly after that.

Not to bash him -- it's just that's the most distinctive thing I saw him do.

Penny through a mean alley to Marion in the forth. Sportscenter Top Ten...He makes it look easy. I wonder if he does taht once a game.

 

[matt_whitlock]

Originally posted by PhiLLmattiC
Penny through a mean alley to Marion in the forth. Sportscenter Top Ten...He makes it look easy. I wonder if he does taht once a game.

Actually, he does. And most of the people on this board know that.

I agree. I really do not remember any of the lazy passes we have harped about entering last night. I thought Hardaway played a very nice game.

Well, the box score gave Penny 0 turnovers. They probably figured that Jake Voskhul caught the ball and then just turned it over himself. It didn't really happen like that, but it was Jake's fault nonetheless. So, let's all agree that Penny DID NOT HAVE HIS LAZY PASS OF THE NIGHT.

I do think D'Antoni is going to start playing him down the stretch. He seems to catch on much more quickly than Frank Johnson.

You would hope so, but nothing he has done seems to point that out. After having a superb 1st 4 quarters against Seattle, Mike D'Antoni decided it was best for the team if Penny did not play in the fourth quarter. That almost cost us the game. Luckily, Penny was allowed to inbound the ball and win the game for us with his pass, but that doesn't reflect too well on D'Antoni. Then, last night Penny comes in and more or less dominates the game. With Stephon Marbury passing so well and Penny shooting so well, it should normally make sense that the two could've worked well together last night. Instead, he played Penny 19 minutes! And a good portion of those minutes were without Stephon even in the game. How could you play Penny who was definately one of our best offensive players last night just 19 minutes, and then play JJ for 40??

Moreover, I understand that you want to rest Stephon Marbury, but D'Antoni has to do a better job of managing the time when he's out. You can't rest him for like 8 minutes straight like he did last night and hope to win a close game. Maybe he should rest more in the first half, or maybe, since we're riddled with injuries, you just can't rest him as much as you'd like. But last night's management of Stephon's minutes was piss-poor.

I don't know about this D'Antoni character. He wants us to be an uptempo, high scoring team. He wants us to play a brand of basketball that fans want to see. He has an infatuation with Joe Johnson. Hmm, don't his "wants" sound an awful lot like the Colangelo's wants? And let's not forget, we're 1-5 with him at the helm. I understand he hasn't had Amare, but in his goal to score more points, we've ended up scoring just 2 more ppg than with Frank Johnson, but allowing our opponent to score 10 more. That's not a winning formula. His plays out of the timeout have been noticeably better, and I'm not just talking about the game-winner against Seattle, but other than that, this team has been worse than under Frank Johnson.

 

[Chaplin]

2 things:

One, Penny's pass to Jake was, IMO, the fault of both players. It was a decent quick pick and roll play--Jake should have been ready for the pass and Penny should probably have thought a little bit about whether Jake would be ready or not for it. It certainly was NOT a lazy turnover like so many will call it.

Two, resting Stephon was great, but IMO he left Barbosa in the game a little too long--he wasn't really adding all that much at the beginning of the 4th quarter when Portland went on their big run and by the time Steph got back in the game, we were down by 6. I like Barbosa, but he was hindrance, not a help, at that point last night--after all, he's still a rookie.

 

[George O'Brien]

I like Barbosa, but he was hindrance, not a help, at that point last night--after all, he's still a rookie

I would prefer that either Penny or Stephon be in the lineup when Barbosa is playing. Barbosa is not yet a true point guard and the offense suffers when he has to carry the load himself.