Suns vs Mavericks 2/1/13

Errntknght

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A loss tonight is a win-win so if Hunter is going to let the kiddies play this the game to do it - put them out there and forget to take them off. Ain't going to happen, of course. I expect the players to be itching to flex their new found defensive muscle and win the game quite decisively.

Equally heartening, the Twolves have lost 19 straight to the Lakers so they are clearly due for a win - thats the way statistics work, right?
 

Mainstreet

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The Suns are seemingly in win now mode rather than player development other than Tucker and Beasley.
 

AzStevenCal

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The Suns are seemingly in win now mode rather than player development other than Tucker and Beasley.

If Hunter is requiring a defensive focus (in practice and games) in order to earn playing time, I'm fine with that. I'm a lifelong Suns fan so I don't really know what defense looks like but I wouldn't mind finding out.

Steve
 

Mainstreet

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If Hunter is requiring a defensive focus (in practice and games) in order to earn playing time, I'm fine with that. I'm a lifelong Suns fan so I don't really know what defense looks like but I wouldn't mind finding out.

Steve

I just want a better draft pick. Let the younger players focus on defense. ;)
 

Mainstreet

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Well Marshall is in the game so there is that.
 

Mainstreet

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Carter never played this hard for the Suns. Sorry for repeating this thought again from another thread.
 

Absolute Zero

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Suns hanging tough in the first half, Dragic hitting some Nashesque shots
 

AzStevenCal

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I just want a better draft pick. Let the younger players focus on defense. ;)

I wouldn't mind two lottery picks but I wouldn't be broken-hearted to see us go on a 13 game winning streak. It would be pretty cool to cost the Lakers a playoff spot by claiming it for ourselves. Not that I particularly want to make the playoffs but I can't completely quiet that desire to see my team win as often as possible.

Steve
 

Mainstreet

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Beasley has played hard but he has disappeared offensively unless he dons a cape soon.
 

Mainstreet

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Beasley goes to the bench.
 

Mainstreet

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I'm glad the Suns traded Marion for Shaq back in 2008... not... :rolleyes:
 

Phrazbit

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I'm glad the Suns traded Marion for Shaq back in 2008... not... :rolleyes:

Looking back if the Suns had kept Marion and pulled the trigger on the supposed Amare for Garnett trade scenario after 2007...
 

cly2tw

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Looking back if the Suns had kept Marion and pulled the trigger on the supposed Amare for Garnett trade scenario after 2007...

Nothing good would have come out of it. Marion improved his defense further with the Mavs, which would not have happened under MDA. And Garnett is a far inferior offensive player compared to Amare, so that the Nash/Garnett/Marion team wouldn't be able to score much in the WCF if they went thus far. That team would've been worse. However, if we could get Garnett for Marion+, then the Nash/Amare/Garnett team would have been favorite to win it all.
 

SirStefan32

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Garnett is a far inferior offensive player compared to Amare, so that the Nash/Garnett/Marion team wouldn't be able to score much in the WCF if they went thus far.

Are you kidding me? Garnet a far inferior offensive player? Without Nash feeding him easy baskets, he is averaging over 19 points per game for his career. This includes the last six seasons in Boston, playing just over 30 minutes per game with other scorers (Pierce, Allan, Rondo, etc.)

I understand being a homer, but KG is not a "far inferior" to Amare in anything, including offense. KG can post up, for example. He can also run the offense through low post because he is such a great passer. Amare can't do either one of those things. He will commit a personal foul or turn the ball over most of the time. We've watching this year after year.

Let's not forget that KG was one of the best defenders in the league for most of his career, and one of the best rebounders- his career average is still well over 10 boards a game.

Amare Stoudemire has never been, is not, and never will be comparable to KG. Garnett is a whole level above Stoudemire.
 

Griffin

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2: the number of times that Michael Beasley threw an inbound pass straight to a Mavs player.
 

AzStevenCal

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2: the number of times that Michael Beasley threw an inbound pass straight to a Mavs player.

He did throw two really bad passes but the second one was a careless pass directly to a Suns player. Beasley should have noticed the Mav laying in wait but it definitely wasn't thrown to a Mavs player. Actually, I should temper my comment and allow for the possibility you're talking about a different bad pass than the last one that sent him to the bench for the final time.

Steve
 
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Errntknght

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Nothing good would have come out of it. Marion improved his defense further with the Mavs, which would not have happened under MDA. And Garnett is a far inferior offensive player compared to Amare, so that the Nash/Garnett/Marion team wouldn't be able to score much in the WCF if they went thus far. That team would've been worse. However, if we could get Garnett for Marion+, then the Nash/Amare/Garnett team would have been favorite to win it all.

A Nash/Amare/Garnett team is impossible - Garnett would have quit the game in disgust if he'd been forced to play alongside Amare. Or if he'd had to play for D'Antoni without Amare.
 

sunsfan88

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A Nash/Amare/Garnett team is impossible - Garnett would have quit the game in disgust if he'd been forced to play alongside Amare. Or if he'd had to play for D'Antoni without Amare.

Or if he had to play with a PG as defecient defensively as Nash is.
 

Superbone

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Nothing good would have come out of it. Marion improved his defense further with the Mavs, which would not have happened under MDA. And Garnett is a far inferior offensive player compared to Amare, so that the Nash/Garnett/Marion team wouldn't be able to score much in the WCF if they went thus far. That team would've been worse. However, if we could get Garnett for Marion+, then the Nash/Amare/Garnett team would have been favorite to win it all.

Easy for you to say!
 

Griffin

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He did throw two really bad passes but the second one was a careless pass directly to a Suns player. Beasley should have noticed the Mav laying in wait but it definitely wasn't thrown to a Mavs player. Actually, I should temper my comment and allow for the possibility you're talking about a different bad pass than the last one that sent him to the bench for the final time.

Steve
No I was talking about that one. Yes, it wasn't directly to a Mavs player but the end result was the same. It probably would have helped his cause to actually look at where he was throwing the ball as opposed to looking at the bench. Or perhaps he was trying to throw a 'no-look' pass and looked at the bench to trick the Mavs defenders into thinking he was about to throw it to Hunter. Who knows really.
 

AzStevenCal

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No I was talking about that one. Yes, it wasn't directly to a Mavs player but the end result was the same. It probably would have helped his cause to actually look at where he was throwing the ball as opposed to looking at the bench. Or perhaps he was trying to throw a 'no-look' pass and looked at the bench to trick the Mavs defenders into thinking he was about to throw it to Hunter. Who knows really.

I think he just fell asleep, everyone does it occasionally. Beasley does it far too often. He's a good passer when he's aware but he needs to understand that you can't let up even for a second at this level.

Steve
 

Phrazbit

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Nothing good would have come out of it. Marion improved his defense further with the Mavs, which would not have happened under MDA. And Garnett is a far inferior offensive player compared to Amare, so that the Nash/Garnett/Marion team wouldn't be able to score much in the WCF if they went thus far. That team would've been worse. However, if we could get Garnett for Marion+, then the Nash/Amare/Garnett team would have been favorite to win it all.

Disagree.

Are you kidding me? Garnet a far inferior offensive player? Without Nash feeding him easy baskets, he is averaging over 19 points per game for his career. This includes the last six seasons in Boston, playing just over 30 minutes per game with other scorers (Pierce, Allan, Rondo, etc.)

I understand being a homer, but KG is not a "far inferior" to Amare in anything, including offense. KG can post up, for example. He can also run the offense through low post because he is such a great passer. Amare can't do either one of those things. He will commit a personal foul or turn the ball over most of the time. We've watching this year after year.

Let's not forget that KG was one of the best defenders in the league for most of his career, and one of the best rebounders- his career average is still well over 10 boards a game.

Amare Stoudemire has never been, is not, and never will be comparable to KG. Garnett is a whole level above Stoudemire.

Exactly

A Nash/Amare/Garnett team is impossible - Garnett would have quit the game in disgust if he'd been forced to play alongside Amare. Or if he'd had to play for D'Antoni without Amare.

Or if he had to play with a PG as defecient defensively as Nash is.

This underestimates the defensive force that Garnett is and the leadership and intensity he brings. Neither Paul Pierce or Ray Allen were viewed as defensive players before Garnett showed up, and Allen was never a very good one. But if guys know where they need to be and just play good team defense then Garnett can clean up a lot of the rest. We certainly would not have been as good defensively as those Celtics were, but we would have been very good, especially with guys like Bell, Marion (since any move to get KG would have cost us Amare AND that Marion staying was the impetus for this entire fantasy conversation) and KG, they would have been more than enough to make up for Nash's short comings. And that team would have easily been one of, if not the best offensive team in the league.
 
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Errntknght

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Phrazbit:
This underestimates the defensive force that Garnett is and the leadership and intensity he brings.

sunsfan88 went overboard about Nash, of course, but this was precisely my point about Garnett and how awful Amare and D'Antoni were regarding defense.

Nash was not your basic horrible defender. Except for ill conceived doubling in the post he was a fairly intelligent defender. The biggest problem was that he had to exert so much energy powering the offense and to play as minutes as possible because of the fall off when he sat, that he had to conserve energy on defense. This with teams intentionally running him through innumerable picks - extra hard and often illegal picks at that. (They were right in attacking Nash that way but the b*stard refs could have done their job and nailed them for their illegal picks.) There were PGs he couldn't stay in front of, to be sure, and ones that pushed him around but mostly he had to contend with the whole opposing team helping their PGs escape him.
This rant isn't aimed at you Phraz, but I had to take one last shot at those in here who merrily, daily bashed Nash as a defender with no real understanding of what they were talking about.
 
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