Suns vs. Pacers

[scotsman13]

JJ is soft. Prove me wrong.

tonight he did what i have been asking penny to do. reach over and grab a player trying to make a layup. so if you think that he is soft then you think that penny is even softer and and you should find a way for us to get rid of both of these players. starting with penny.

 

[scotsman13]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Play Penny and at least see what happens - that would end the debate once and for all and maybe it would save our season - this was the soft part of the schedule - have you looked at what the next two months look like?

cheese there is no debate penny is bench stuff. the only people that think that penny should start are the penny lovers, the ones who think that he cant do any wrong. todays posting shows that jj is more valueable to this team then penny is by far.

what is it with you guys we got beat by a better team tonight and even at that if barbosa hadnt gotten hurt we still might have won. this team is going to take time to grow and develop. jj is only a couple of months older then amare. why isnt everyone bitching about amare? frank johnson shouldnt be fired. he is doing what he was hired to do, develop the this young team. the suns are one of the youngs teams in the nba it will take time for them to reach their pike. take a couple deep breaths, and sit back and enjoy watching this team grow. amare, barbosa, jj, zarko are all 22 years or younger. marion and marbury, white and jake are 26. heck the old men of this team are penny and williams at 32 and 35. this planned to be a 5 year rebuilding plan to get this team back to what it should. last year we shocked a lot of people. just look at the this team and the players and see how we should match up. amare is good but he isnt a superstar, marbury is the best player on this team but even he has a problem getting his shot off against some teams. jj is the 4th opion on this team, the 4th opion isnt someoen you count on for scoring. give this team time.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by scotsman13
cheese there is no debate penny is bench stuff. the only people that think that penny should start are the penny lovers, the ones who think that he cant do any wrong. todays posting shows that jj is more valueable to this team then penny is by far.

right - I forgot how many times I have countless recalled Penny's incredible defensive prowess! (note sarcasm for the stupid people) I am a Penny lover - nevermind the fact that I hated his ass when he was injured that entire season in 2001 or if he got traded and his contract came off the books it would be a great day for the suns - but hey let's ignore anything that could possibly make sense because you have a statistic that is HIGHLY subjective and is dependent on who is actually on the court with the people in question. The fact that you can't see that there is a debate really makes me question your intelligence - as does the fact that you ignore the fact that most people here would like to see last year's minute distribution to be given a chance - seeing as when healthy last year - this team was pretty damn good as opposed to this mess. But hey - you're one stat shows that you are right and the majority of the people on this board are clueless right - so why bother with what has actually occurred in front of everyone's eyes this season.

Let me ask you - what would it hurt if Penny started and minutes were shifted in his favor - would we lose games - maybe - but we're losing games now and JJ IS NOT PROGRESSING REGARDLESS - Personally- I think you're afraid that if Penny actually started we would start playing well and that would make you look like a jackass - well, let me clue you in on here - it's not something to worry about - you're doing a good job of that all by yourself.

 

[Joe Mama]

The Phoenix Suns' starters shot just 33% (18-54) from the field tonight. In the last two games, both losses, starting backcourt of Marbury and JJ has shot 28% (15-53) from the field. That kind of shooting isn't going to win many basketball games, especially against good teams.

Did anyone else find it strange that the Suns came out of a timeout and posted up Amare Stoudemire on Jermaine O'Neal with less than 30 seconds left in the game and down by 4-5 points? I just didn't get it. What did Frank Johnson thing? Did he think the Pacers were going to double-team even though O'Neal had stuffed Amare 3 or 4 times?

Earlier in the day I was not expecting a Phoenix Suns victory. However when I learned that Ron Artest was out I thought they should win. I'm disappointed.

Joe Mama

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by scotsman13

what is it with you guys we got beat by a better team tonight

by the way - a team on a second night of back to backs - without their starting PG AND Ron Artest is not a team that is better than us - or should be better than us - neither were the Warriors and neither were the Hawks - and neither were crap ass teams like Miami or Orlando who we struggled mightily with. Why don't you guy find some more meaningless stats and insult people by calling them Penny lovers - when in reality they are just educated Suns fans who are dying to see something tried in order to shake up this pathetic sleep-walking team we're seeing now.

By the way - do you have Direct TV.

 

[George O'Brien]

Losing Barbosa Hurt A Lot

After all of this silly JJ v Penny v Casey; maybe the answer is Barbosa.

Up to this point, Barbosa had not really shown much; but he was fantastic against the Pacers. The Suns pressure defense was mildly effective without him, but it really rocked when he was in. His plus/minus for the game must have been huge.

It is time to admit that the Suns without Carbakapa are short - which means that it is important to keep teams from getting the ball inside. The full court press may be the answer, but it takes someone with Barbosa's quickness to make it work. He is only 6'3", but has a huge wing span and scouts say he could be the next Gary Payton.

 

[wager323]

Re: Losing Barbosa Hurt A Lot

Originally posted by George O'Brien
After all of this silly JJ v Penny v Casey; maybe the answer is Barbosa.

i agree... we should just take jj out of the starting lineup and start w/ marbury and barbosa...the only problem is that it would create major defensive problems.

i hope jj gets injured (something not too severe) so we get to see what'll happen w/ penny in the starting lineup. thats if frank johnson doesnt start casey...like he did a few games ago

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
right - I forgot how many times I have countless recalled Penny's incredible defensive prowess! (note sarcasm for the stupid people) I am a Penny lover - nevermind the fact that I hated his ass when he was injured that entire season in 2001 or if he got traded and his contract came off the books it would be a great day for the suns - but hey let's ignore anything that could possibly make sense because you have a statistic that is HIGHLY subjective and is dependent on who is actually on the court with the people in question. The fact that you can't see that there is a debate really makes me question your intelligence - as does the fact that you ignore the fact that most people here would like to see last year's minute distribution to be given a chance - seeing as when healthy last year - this team was pretty damn good as opposed to this mess. But hey - you're one stat shows that you are right and the majority of the people on this board are clueless right - so why bother with what has actually occurred in front of everyone's eyes this season.

Let me ask you - what would it hurt if Penny started and minutes were shifted in his favor - would we lose games - maybe - but we're losing games now and JJ IS NOT PROGRESSING REGARDLESS - Personally- I think you're afraid that if Penny actually started we would start playing well and that would make you look like a jackass - well, let me clue you in on here - it's not something to worry about - you're doing a good job of that all by yourself.

 

[Chaz]

I will agree the Pacers are a better team, but I don't believe they have more talent than the Suns.

The Pacers have more veterans and are better coached. Having said that I still think the Suns should have won. This was a very dissapointing loss.

 

[frdbtr]

I am sure that this JJ vs Penny debate will go on as for a long time. I am not a "penny lover" but I just remeber that Last year with Penny in the starting line up, the Suns had a winning record. Last year with penny Injured or out of the starting lineup, the Suns had a losing record. I just don't understand what Frank Johnson's love affair is with JJ and why he has tried to force him into the starting line up for two years in a row. It seems to me that Penny plays better when he starts and JJ plays better off of the bench. I don't know why but they do. Maybe FJ wants to force JJ into the starting lineup because they have the same last name.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by frdbtr
I am sure that this JJ vs Penny debate will go on as for a long time. I am not a "penny lover" but I just remeber that Last year with Penny in the starting line up, the Suns had a winning record. Last year with penny Injured or out of the starting lineup, the Suns had a losing record. I just don't understand what Frank Johnson's love affair is with JJ and why he has tried to force him into the starting line up for two years in a row. It seems to me that Penny plays better when he starts and JJ plays better off of the bench. I don't know why but they do. Maybe FJ wants to force JJ into the starting lineup because they have the same last name.

I'm so confused at this point. I not sure what I want the Suns to do. I just know they need to do something. I don't like the starting lineup as a unit, and I think the problems start with the shooting guard position.

IMO this problem was created by just handing Joe Johnson the starting position. It made little sense to me, and now they risk the possibility that a change will hurt JJ's fragile makeup.

Over the last several weeks I've thrown out no less than a dozen ideas of what to do to get things going. I can't remember who brought up starting Cabarkapa at the 3 and Shawn Marion at the 2, but I'm beginning to like that idea more and more. Unfortunately I don't think the coaches will ever go for that. Of course it would be six to eight weeks before they can even try something like that.

Joe Mama

 

[scotsman13]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Let me ask you - what would it hurt if Penny started and minutes were shifted in his favor - would we lose games - maybe - but we're losing games now and JJ IS NOT PROGRESSING REGARDLESS - Personally- I think you're afraid that if Penny actually started we would start playing well and that would make you look like a jackass - well, let me clue you in on here - it's not something to worry about - you're doing a good job of that all by yourself.

see now that is where you and me have problems cheese, i look at how penny has played this year on the defensive end and the offensice end. the fact that jj was shooting .397 and hardaway was shooting .404 this was up to last nights game. then matched with the fact that penny plays no defense and jj goes and trys hard to play defense and matched up with the stat that came out yesterday showing that with penny on the floor it cost us points. so if playing time is earned then why would there be any question about giving penny more playing time he should be getting less. here is a question for you how about if we totally take all of penny's playing time and give it to casey and barbosa. and then well all see if penny has value at all? what are you afraid of with that? that casey and barbosa will out play the great penny "hardlythere". if anyone is going to get more playing time it should be those 2 and not penny. and you are right cheese it isnt something to worry about for us. we dont run the team or coach it all we can do is stat what we believe. you believe that jj doesnt play well and that penny is more valueable then jj. i believe that the ball boy has more value then penny to this team. so now cheese we understand each other.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by scotsman13
i believe that the ball boy has more value then penny to this team.

and there is the reason why you have ZERO credibility on this board - I can acknolwedge JJ's strengths - as can others - but I also acknowledge what Penny brings to the game and what he was able to bring to the game last year when we were good. The above sentence just proves once and for all that you are a schmuck who knows absolutely ZERO about basketball.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by scotsman13
i believe that the ball boy has more value then penny to this team. so now cheese we understand each other.

I disagree with this. I believe that Penny does have value to this team. I keep stating this but last year the Suns had a winning record with Penny in the starting lineup. I also think that JJ has value for the team as well. The point that I keep trying to make is: Penny plays better in a starting role and JJ plays better in a sixth man role. I firmly believe that if Penny started and JJ was the sixth man that the suns would play better as a team.

 

[George O'Brien]

FJ appears to be convinced that JJ is better than Penny on defense. He also seems convinced that JJ will only get better by playing.

That being said, Barbosa may be added to the mix because he can play pressure defense better than anyone else on the team. All the coaching in the world cannot teach his kind of quickness.
Let's hope his tail bone starts feeling better soon.

 

[scotsman13]

Originally posted by frdbtr
I disagree with this. I believe that Penny does have value to this team. I keep stating this but last year the Suns had a winning record with Penny in the starting lineup. I also think that JJ has value for the team as well. The point that I keep trying to make is: Penny plays better in a starting role and JJ plays better in a sixth man role. I firmly believe that if Penny started and JJ was the sixth man that the suns would play better as a team.

see that is the great thing about america we have the ability to state what we believe. "i believe" doesnt prove anything and we can all have our only views as to what makes a good player. i personally believe that if i gave all of penny's playing time to barbosa and casey the suns would be playing better then they are now to.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by scotsman13
see that is the great thing about america we have the ability to state what we believe. "i believe" doesnt prove anything and we can all have our only views as to what makes a good player. i personally believe that if i gave all of penny's playing time to barbosa and casey the suns would be playing better then they are now to.

my "i believe" had data to support it, mainly that the suns played better with Penny in the starting line up last year. What data do you have to support that throwing two more inexperienced players into the starting lineup will improve the Suns? Any person with half a brain would never think that a rookie and a second year player will improve a team that has a 12 year vet and a 3 year player already playing the majority of the minutes. We got lucky with Stoudemire (sp?) last year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by scotsman13
see that is the great thing about america we have the ability to state what we believe. "i believe" doesnt prove anything and we can all have our only views as to what makes a good player. i personally believe that if i gave all of penny's playing time to barbosa and casey the suns would be playing better then they are now to.

do you have direct TV?

 

[George O'Brien]

Hardaway played pretty well last season before he got injured and "OK" after he came back. But last year when he was backing up JJ, he played so well FJ could not keep him from starting.

I have not seem quite the same spark from Penny this year in spite of the claims that he is in the best shape he has been in since joining the Suns.

Last year JJ was not effective until very late in the season, so concluding Penny was better then does not prove much.

What is wrong with JJ? Mostly it is that he does not have the mental toughness he needs to play consistently. When things go badly, he tends to press and trys too hard to make things happen. He needs to relax, pass the ball when he is covered and focus on staying within the offense.

None the less, I would like to see the Suns use Jacobsen and run some screens to get him open looks.