Suns vs. Pacers

[sly fly]

Ok... I'm going to say it...

Joe Johnson has to go. Softer than Oliver Millers' stomach.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
Joe Johnson sucks.. Where's Danny Fortson when you need him?

That is just f*cked up...........

 

[slinslin]

Yeah lets all call Joe Johnson the goat once again.

Don't bring up facts or anything , Joe Johnson is always wrong.

Carlisle took Frank Johnson to school plain and simple. This team isn't buying what Frank Johnson tells them if he even does.
How can you give a team 3 or more putbacks after their missed freethrows?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by sly fly
Ok... I'm going to say it...

Joe Johnson has to go. Softer than Oliver Millers' stomach.

He is no softer than half of the team.......

I am not the biggest fan of JJ, but him and Penny are a wash. It depends on the game, one usually out plays the other, or they both play bad. However, JJ has more of a future in this league, so it is worth the effort to develop him.

Harrington was just as bad when he first entered the league, and now he is starting to turn the corner. Corey Magette came out the same year as Marion, and is just now becoming consistant. It takes time, JJ is still just 21 I think. The same age as Amare.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by slinslin
Yeah lets all call Joe Johnson the goat once again.

Don't bring up facts or anything , Joe Johnson is always wrong.

Carlisle took Frank Johnson to school plain and simple. This team isn't buying what Frank Johnson tells them if he even does.
How can you give a team 3 or more putbacks after their missed freethrows?

Exactly. We played hard, but made some mistakes down the stretch. We gave up way to many untimely offensive rebounds.

 

[tobiazz]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
You must have been looking from an angle because it was hooking all the way. He used his left elbow to hook Jermaine O'Neal and get around him.

Joe Mama

No, I watched it twice. Amare's elbow (lightly) hit O'Neal in the stomach area (incidental contact) and he spun around him with quickness, not by grabbing him and hindering his motion. You need to grab someone to hook them. He was only lightly touching Jermaine and it looked like an offensive foul from the ref's perspective. Jermaine would not have been called in the opposite scenario.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
Joe Johnson sucks.. Where's Danny Fortson when you need him?

you realize you destroy what you are looking for most when you post something as offensive as this - you want people to agree with you - but no one wants to agree with an a**hole - even when he's right.

That being said - Joe Johnson sucks - I can't stand watching this kid even on the court - he looks like a scared puppy at all times - it's his third year - and it's not like he came out of high school - most guys in the league come out after their sophomore year - he's out of excuses - by this time in his career - we should be seeing him step forward - he's not - and it's horribly dissapointing.

 

[matt_whitlock]

Originally posted by sly fly
Ok... I'm going to say it...

Joe Johnson has to go. Softer than Oliver Millers' stomach.

I just imagined poking big O's stomach. That must be really, really jelly-like. Funny.

Joe Johnson's not going anywhere soon. I'm not mathematician, but 3-10 from the field isn't good, first of all. Either is 4 TO's. Either is a 1:2 assist:turnover ratio. Nevertheless, he's averaging the second-largest amount of minutes on this team, barely second behind Stephon, and 10th OVERALL IN MINUTES PER GAME IN THE ENTIRE NBA! In my mind, that's completely incomprehensible. It just doesn't make any sense.

He's actually gotten progressively worse over the course of the young season, and as Penny Hardaway plays better, JJ seems to get spooked even more (if that's at all possible) and plays even more poorly. Likewise, the better Penny plays, the less minutes he seesm to get. And the worse JJ plays, the less minutes Penny seems to get. It's a pretty bad situation for Penny if you ask me, but all in all he seems to handle it well.

By the way, Joe Johnson the Super-Defender... he doesn't exist.

 

[haverford]

The offensive rebound by O-Neal over Marion in the last seconds after a free throw was the signal moment in FJ's demise. You could feel it. Dead man walking....

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

How does he look scared? He tipped balls in the passing lanes, drove to the hole, even in crunch time.

No part of JJs game was scared tonight.

He played bad for stretches, then played good for others. He was just extremely streaky tonight, even more than normal. However, no part of his game screamed timid to me......

Amare had a relatively bad night. Why does everyone blame JJ for everything that is wrong with this team?

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by slinslin
Yeah lets all call Joe Johnson the goat once again.

Don't bring up facts or anything , Joe Johnson is always wrong.

Carlisle took Frank Johnson to school plain and simple. This team isn't buying what Frank Johnson tells them if he even does.
How can you give a team 3 or more putbacks after their missed freethrows?

Did you watch the game from the cartoon on your computer, again?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
He is no softer than half of the team.......

I am not the biggest fan of JJ, but him and Penny are a wash. It depends on the game, one usually out plays the other, or they both play bad. However, JJ has more of a future in this league, so it is worth the effort to develop him.

Harrington was just as bad when he first entered the league, and now he is starting to turn the corner. Corey Magette came out the same year as Marion, and is just now becoming consistant. It takes time, JJ is still just 21 I think. The same age as Amare.

Al Harrington was a high schooler - Magette was a freshman - and it's not accurate to say he is just now becoming consistent - he was a good player last year - and in addition to that - neither of those guys look like a scared puppy out there - Magette has always had the attitude that he is the man - even had it at Duke when he was playing behind a college all-star team.

As far as developing JJ - do you develop him at the cost of the team overall - I do not think this team can afford to take a step back this season - meaning out of the playoffs - Steph is still too tempermental - and Amare - as much as I love him more than any Sun I can remember since Charles - has an iffy background too - this team needs to win - they need to progress as a team and if there's a way to spice things up or shake 'em up on a team that isn't playing well - you better do it fast before these .500 teams in the west actually start playing some ball. JJ can still develop coming off the bench - why not even just TRY something different - because what we've been doing so far this season - AIN'T WORKING.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I honestly don't see how Penny playing more instead of JJ will affect this teams record. They both play good at times, and both play bad at times. Neither does anything spectacular for extended periods of time.

If we had another option besides Penny to take JJs current role, I would maybe think it was worth it. However, with the current depth we have at the 2g spot, Penny vs JJ is a wash, and Casey shouldn't play major minutes if even at all.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
why not even just TRY something different - because what we've been doing so far this season - AIN'T WORKING.

Its called getting a real coach. That would be something different.....

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
He is no softer than half of the team.......

I am not the biggest fan of JJ, but him and Penny are a wash. It depends on the game, one usually out plays the other, or they both play bad. However, JJ has more of a future in this league, so it is worth the effort to develop him.

Harrington was just as bad when he first entered the league, and now he is starting to turn the corner. Corey Magette came out the same year as Marion, and is just now becoming consistant. It takes time, JJ is still just 21 I think. The same age as Amare.

Listen, I've given JJ the benefit of the doubt for as long as I can take it.

There are certain players who just don't get it.

You've all (or most of you) have balled with some players who have all the talent in the world. You see it, everybody sees it. Yet, NOTHING gets through to them.

Why? Because they are soft upstairs. You can teach, teach, teach... but it all comes down to having the nads to step up and be a bitch on both ends of the court (Dan Majerle). Some players just don't have the personality to really make a difference.

JJ is soft. Prove me wrong.

 

[tobiazz]

Let's trade JJ for Jon Barry. If JJ sucks for this year and next, we wasted time on him. If he explodes next year The Suns will have give him a nice contract and he may suck again until his next contract year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Its called getting a real coach. That would be something different.....

but that's not gonn happen right now - why not shake things up? Penny has actually played well in the last four games or so - actually since supposedly he was told what his role was gonna be - why not see if he can be a spark? I do think that's it's obscene that Joe Johnson is 10th in the entire league for minutes played - if that stat's true - it makes zero sense to me.

Also - a new coach can't instill confidence in JJ - confidence is something you are born with are is bred into you at an early age - he just don't have it once the regular season starts.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

It isn't something that can be proven sly......


If the suns get an offer for JJ that they think will be better for the team, they will most likely pull the trigger...


With that said, I highly doubt we will be offered a SG that better fits our style of play for ONLY JJ.

Which brings me back to my main point. JJ vs. Penny is a wash over the long run. Plain and simple. The team does not suffer more with JJ in the starting lineup. If you all think he is so worthless, then it will just make our bench suck like it did last year. That is the biggest improvement from last year, we have a bench. Take Penny from that, and a big chunk of it is gone.

Penny can do things with the 2nd unit JJ cannot because of his understanding of the game. JJ can skate by on his athleticism in the starting group, because he doens't need to dominate the ball.



SO, with our current team makeup, JJ is best suited for the starting lineup at this point. Let him develop, and see if we can figure out how to get him going. Hell, maybe he is the type of player that will respond huge to a new coach. We don't know yet.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
but that's not gonn happen right now - why not shake things up? Penny has actually played well in the last four games or so - actually since supposedly he was told what his role was gonna be - why not see if he can be a spark? I do think that's it's obscene that Joe Johnson is 10th in the entire league for minutes played - if that stat's true - it makes zero sense to me.

Also - a new coach can't instill confidence in JJ - confidence is something you are born with are is bred into you at an early age - he just don't have it once the regular season starts.

I agree the 10th in the league is a bit obscene, but so is Casey being 4th in the leage in 3pt percentage. The point is the season is early, and those numbers will round out as time goes on.

Penny has been playing better lately. However, if you move him into the starting lineup, the bench will take a huge hit. That is not an acceptable change IMO. That is why I dont think changing it up is a good idea.

 

[tobiazz]

I might get reamed for this, but I would like to see Casey get some more of JJ's minutes. In his brief play, he seems to have improved over his terrible rookie season. I think he has a better chance of being a good 3pt shooter than JJ, and that is what we really need. If any player on the team takes an open three, I still expect a miss. We need one guy like Reggie or Peja where you *expect* the ball to go in.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I agree the 10th in the league is a bit obscene, but so is Casey being 4th in the leage in 3pt percentage. The point is the season is early, and those numbers will round out as time goes on.

Penny has been playing better lately. However, if you move him into the starting lineup, the bench will take a huge hit. That is not an acceptable change IMO. That is why I dont think changing it up is a good idea.

well something ain't working - and Casey may be 4th - but his attempts are way down - Johnson is steadily getting 40 minutes a game - that isn't something where there can be a discrepency like the three point accuracy. Do you remember how good the team was last year before Penny got injured? 3rd in the west - Amare was having a 38 point game against Garnett and sh*tting on Kandi's head - then Penny got hurt and our depth took a huge hit - but did Johnson ever step up during that period - no - I remember Steph carrying us to almost every win we got - and then Penny came back - and what do you know - we started winning again and then even took the Champions to six game in what some people thought was their toughest series - why not see if that starting line-up from last year can bring back that chemistry? I just don't see what it would hurt considering how pathetic we have looked so far this season (we have beaten crap team - barely - at home - we are not the team we were last season and there is really only two major changes - Penny and Bo - and personally I think we have Bo's energy off the bench with Little Jake - and our center rotation kicks the crap out of last years).

Play Penny and at least see what happens - that would end the debate once and for all and maybe it would save our season - this was the soft part of the schedule - have you looked at what the next two months look like?

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by tobiazz
Let's trade JJ for Jon Barry. If JJ sucks for this year and next, we wasted time on him. If he explodes next year The Suns will have give him a nice contract and he may suck again until his next contract year.

I would absolutely love it if the Phoenix Suns could somehow acquire Jon Barry. He's just the kind of shooter this team needs. He also runs around the court like a chicken with his head cut off when he doesn't have the ball. I doubt injuries in any hurry to get rid of him however.

BTW, I think we will have to agree to disagree about that hooking call. I thought it was quite clear that Amare Stoudemire used his left elbow to get the advantage and get around Jermaine O'Neal. I would have blown that whistle in a heartbeat. Overall, I would not complain about the refereeing in that game at all.

Like the Golden State Warriors, the Indiana Pacers gives the Phoenix Suns trouble because of their size and athleticism. One of the real problems with this Phoenix Suns team is that they are undersized. Shawn Marion at 6-7 is a relatively undersized small forward in today's NBA. Jahidi White is wide, but he's a short center at just 6-9. Amare Stoudemire is listed at 6-10, but I don't believe he's that tall. The backups aren't really any better sized.

I'm tired of these gimmicky defenses. I would have liked to have seen Joe Johnson on Harrington, Amare Stoudemire on Jermaine O'Neal, the Phoenix Suns center on the Indiana Pacers center, Shawn Marion on Reggie Miller, and Marbury on their point guard. If after a few minutes one of their players was abusing one of the sons, they could make some adjustments.

Last year one of the strengths of the Phoenix Suns was their fourth-quarter performance. This year it's the exact opposite. They are probably the worst in crunch time.

I think the Phoenix Suns can get back above .500on this upcoming road trip.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaz]

If they had been taking it to the basket with 2 min to go instead of jacking up 3s and waiting untill there is under a min left to get to the foul line they might have won this game.


BTW what difference does it make who starts. Penny is playing, he is just not starting. The first quarter is not usually the Suns problem, it is the fourth.


I am so tired of the JJ sucks argument. What should they do? Cut him?

 

[Forrestham]

After tonights game is it time for Frank to go?

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by Forrestham
After tonights game is it time for Frank to go?

soon