Suns vs Rockets game thread

PhxGametime

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Shaquille O'Neal is self proclaimed 7'3 and he runs like a Forward at times in his career... Garnett is at least 7'2 and he runs like a Guard - David Robinson was 7'1 and he could even run faster than Garnett.


I haven't even watched Game yet but I've seen him plenty of times, Bradley moved better IMO (although he was like 100 lbs) :eek:
 

elindholm

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Shaquille O'Neal is self proclaimed 7'3 and he runs like a Forward at times in his career... Garnett is at least 7'2 and he runs like a Guard - David Robinson was 7'1 and he could even run faster than Garnett.

Robinson is taller than both O'Neal and Garnett. O'Neal can "self proclaim" anything he likes, but he's no taller than 7' 1" in NBA height. Garnett's lankiness makes him look longer than he is, but he's probably only 7' 0".
 

newfan101

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Ralph Sampson is the only player 7'4" or taller that could really run the floor well. Of course, his massive height had alot to do with his body completely breaking down after only 5 years in the league.

Has anyone that height or taller had a long, productive career? I can't think of any off the top of my head.
 

Errntknght

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I like the way D'Antoni has coached the last few games... though I think I'd have started JJax again. Still it was good to reward Jones for his improved work and what he's done has turned out well with both JJ's looking more in the groove. The judicious use of Grant has paid off and so has trusting Eddie to run the team - he only cranked up a couple of shots tonight and got several nice assists.

I had my doubts about starting with Diaw fronting Yao but it worked like a charm, though the Houston guards sure didn't try hard to get the ball in to him. Did anyone notice if our guards were putting on good ball pressure to prevent the lobs? I'll have to take a look at the tape and check that out.

I'm definitely liking Jones more and more. He made a couple of very well judged defensive help plays though the blind double team on Swift was spoiled by not getting the position just right. The main thing is that he's showing good bball smarts in what he's trying to do and the details will follow. He's boxing out some on the boards and going more aggressively for the ball, too. He's got much to learn and there are a couple of things I'd like to see him add to his offensive game but I'm happy for now. I would like to see him get some 'jams' on the break but that's just because I'd like to see how he does - he's probably more effective sprinting to the corner.

Eddie Johnson came up with a good comparison for Diaw during the broadcast tonight - Derrick McKay. McKay could defend virtually anyone and played all over the floor (in case you don't remember him). He had such a quiet style he was always easy to forget. Boris is more memorable but he does have much the same kind of composure on the floor.

Eddie is in agreement with me about Marion shooting the three - he was almost lamenting it when Shawn nailed them because he wants him to keep working inside. I've always thought Eddie was one of the more astute basketball commentators...

Shawn did make a nice baseline cut tonight and Nash threw him a bounce pass down the middle just like I've been envisioning them doing for a year. But the pass was a bit soft and another defender got a hand on it... dang that ticked me off.
 

Errntknght

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I think one reason extremely tall guys are not very athletic is due to 'statistics'. Among people with less height only the most athletic play basketball in the pro ranks but there isn't a big population of really tall people to choose from and simple height is valuable so they don't have to be among the most athletic one hundredth of one percent to get a shot at the game.
 

goldseraph

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I think the criticism of Yao is unfair, he works very hard on the floor. All of the expectations and number 1 pick were placed on Yao, he didn't ask for it. Running up and down the court with world class athletes when you're a 7'5" giant chinaman is very tough.
 

F-Dog

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Errntknght said:
I had my doubts about starting with Diaw fronting Yao but it worked like a charm, though the Houston guards sure didn't try hard to get the ball in to him. Did anyone notice if our guards were putting on good ball pressure to prevent the lobs? I'll have to take a look at the tape and check that out.

The Suns put Shawn Marion on Ryan Bowen, sort of, then had Marion come in behind Yao so that he was bracketed. I believe the Suns played off the Rockets' guards, daring them to take contested shots.


Diaw's been great so far, but he's been replacing Amare, not Joe Johnson. (Joe played PG/SG/SF, while Diaw has played PF/C almost exclusively.) I don't like the McKey comparison, either--McKey had famously tiny hands, which prevented him from being much of a factor with the ball. He was basically a catch-and-shoot player on offense, while Diaw is everything but.


Big men who can shoot threes (like Marion) are very valuable indeed--for example, the Suns' half-court offense last year was based on the spacing that Marion at PF provides. There's room for argument with this, but the big-shot NBA stat-heads are on my side here.


Anyway, this was the Suns' best game of the season so far (they played even better for one half against the Spurs). I hope it's a sign of what's to come...
 

Errntknght

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F-Dog, "I don't like the McKey comparison, either--McKey had famously tiny hands, which prevented him from being much of a factor with the ball. He was basically a catch-and-shoot player on offense, while Diaw is everything but."

Catch-and-shoot? That's not my recollection of him. Certainly not in the style of Rex, Reggie and Rip... maybe set shots now and then. On the other hand I have to agree that he didn't have Diaw's ability to drive and dish. What I remember is him suddenly appearing in open spaces relatively close to the basket and manuevering, using at most one dribble, to get a good shot. Staying cool and collected. That's what I see in Boris that reminds me of Derrick.

Tony Kukoc might be a better comparison if Diaw hones his long range shooting. Or that German fellow... his name eludes me at the moment. Earlier than Kukoc... 6'10ish, good passer and driver. Faster afoot than Boris.


F-Dog, "Big men who can shoot threes (like Marion) are very valuable indeed--for example, the Suns' half-court offense last year was based on the spacing that Marion at PF provides. There's room for argument with this, but the big-shot NBA stat-heads are on my side here."

Oh good, if the stat-heads are on your side, I'm pretty sure I'm right! I hated the Suns half court offense last year - too much reliance on 3 point shots and too static. I watched every game as they ran off 62 wins so how could I not like it? Just what I said all year, it wouldn't hold up in the playoffs and then it would be too late to change it. The playoffs come and two teams take us out of our offense... and guess who wasn't surprised - though I was bit surprised Dallas was one of the teams. I was partially wrong, of course - thanks to Nash's heroics we survived changing our offense in the Dallas series. But I'm stubborn, I'd bet against it happening again.

I should amend that a little, I'm okay with 3's in transition unless the half court offense is perking. When it is, it seems like a missed three kills the momentum. Uncle Cliffie had a real knack for those momentum killers...

Why do I single out Marion instead of Jones, Bell, Nash or Barbosa? For a number of reasons but mainly because he can be more effective close in than they can - though I'll probably get around to Bell after I study his game for a while. In his first couple of years with the team Shawn didn't shoot from 3 point range and he was more effective, IMO, than he has been since he started. In truth it isn't that he shoots an occasional 3 pointer that bugs me, it's that once he started shooting them he started to hang out on the perimeter all the time. I'm afraid he'll start exhibiting that behavior again - there is considerable evidence he doesn't relish the contact that accompanies inside play.

Nash and Barbosa use the three to force defenders to play up on them which, in turn, improves their chances of driving by them and getting to the hoop for high percentage shots and drawing fouls. Shawn doesn't get high percentage shots when he does drive and he is most careful not to get fouled, so you can rule out that way of gaining from shooting them.

Another reason I pick on Shawn is that he has never shot 3's well in the playoffs and particularly not in the clutch. (If Q had returned this year I'd have been dead set against him shooting threes, too, because of his miserable performance in the playoffs.)

My last two reasons have names - Bruce Bowen and Tayshun Prince. The road to the title runs through those two guys teams and they are not going to let Shawn have many, if any, uncontested threes - the only kind he can make.

I'm not saying Shawn is dumb for making the three point shot a big part of his arsenal - from his point of view he works hard on defense and he runs his butt off up and down the floor to good effect so why shouldn't he take it a little easy in the half court offense, if he can keep his scoring average up by shooting lots of threes? It allows him to play more minutes and maybe have a longer career. All of those things guarantee him huge paychecks and, like it or not, that's how nearly all players measure their success until they get to the end of their careers and have not won a title.

My point of view is quite different - I'm glad to see Shawn get adequately compensated for his play but I could care less if he's among the most highly paid players or makes the all-star team. I want him to devote his efforts to developing and using the part of his game that is going to be most effective at the critical junctures of the season. So about all I can do is keep applauding his inside play and hope he misses all his three point attempts - and gives up on them.
 

F-Dog

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Errntknght said:
My last two reasons have names - Bruce Bowen and Tayshun Prince. The road to the title runs through those two guys teams and they are not going to let Shawn have many, if any, uncontested threes - the only kind he can make.

You're not talking about a 'big man' shooting threes, you're talking about Marion playing small forward. In a way, Quentin Richardson helped to knock out Marion's production in the Spurs series as well as his own, by allowing Robert Horry to match up with him. (The Spurs will have a tougher time matching Bowen against Marion this year if the Suns continue to play Nash, Barbosa and Raja in the backcourt.)

Both the Pistons and the Spurs get a lot of mileage out of their PFs shooting threes--add Larry Brown and Gregg Popovich to the list of those who agree with me. :p The Suns benefited too, especially in the Mavs series, where Steve Nash was getting wide-open 15-footers whenever he wanted thanks to the Mavs' unwillingness to send help defense.

Marion's career playoff 3pt% (37.2%) is better than Robert Horry's (36.3%) and Rasheed Wallace's (34.3%).


I still think that defense and especially defensive rebounding were what killed the Suns in the Spurs series. Another big factor was Steve Nash's exhaustion, and a big part of that was due to Joe Johnson's injury.
 

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