Suns Vs Sixers Game Thread

[panfolk]

interesting what some think of as relentless others think selfish black hole. Like I said eaarlier in the year it's a style many love and many hate.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I need to re watch a lot of the game, but did anyone else notice how bad Barbosa and Amare played together? Amare would set up for his typical slip screens, and Barbs would just stand there dribbling doing nothing. There were a couple of plays with obvious miscommunication too...

Banks on the other hand - while everyone noting he is a black hole - seems to look for Amare a little more (and no one else). Like I said I need to go watch again, but he seems to have a little chemestry with him. I also have noticed the past few games that the two of them appear to be friendlier with each other than they are with anyone else on the team.

Oh well - great game to watch. I really want to see what Amare can do in Utah against some hard matchups and on the back to back again.

 

[cly2tw]

I need to re watch a lot of the game, but did anyone else notice how bad Barbosa and Amare played together? Amare would set up for his typical slip screens, and Barbs would just stand there dribbling doing nothing. There were a couple of plays with obvious miscommunication too...

Banks on the other hand - while everyone noting he is a black hole - seems to look for Amare a little more (and no one else). Like I said I need to go watch again, but he seems to have a little chemestry with him. I also have noticed the past few games that the two of them appear to be friendlier with each other than they are with anyone else on the team.

Oh well - great game to watch. I really want to see what Amare can do in Utah against some hard matchups and on the back to back again.

I recognized that about Banks, too.

Utah will be a great test for the whole team as they are a smart offensive team with various picks and screens. I'm not worried about Amare's offense. I just hope he defends smart and doesn't foul too quick, i.e. doesn't leave the floor too quick. If we could get good rebounding, they can't match 2B's speed and Amare's power.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Utah is on too much of a roll right now and they are a damn good gelling team. If nash doesn't play its game over otherwise we gotta play a perfect game with nash in to get the win.

We are going to have an easy as hell season after the utah game, 2 games vs super record utah down, 2 games against the clips down, a game against the spurs down, a game against dallas down.

 

[sly fly]

- Utah coming off a tough road game in Seattle. That will be a factor if PHX decides to run tonight.

- Banks wasn't brought in to be the saviour. Too many of you had writen him off. Players need time and the right opportunity to build confidence within the system.

If some of you don't think he'll contribute more than Eddie House, then you need your head examined.

- The Suns looked like an All-Star team out there. They came at Philly in waves. I fully expect this team to string off about 10 in a row soon.

- Marion did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do. He made AI work for his points. And, when he realized nothing was going to be given to him, he started chucking 3's.

I would rather see Marion defer his offense, instead of do something he can't do (shoot 3's).

- Is it me or has this team played better with Steve Nash on the sidelines this year? Nash has been slightly disappointing. He started off slow last year, so I'll attribute it to early season rust. He came into camp in great shape, yet didn't really see the dividends pay off.

It's VERY disconcerting to see him injured this early.

- D'Antoni was really pushing them hard last night. He was not going to let the Pat Burke's of the world let Philly back into it.

- Willie Green is a nice player.

 

[elindholm]

And, when he realized nothing was going to be given to him, he started chucking 3's.

I don't understand this comment. Isn't Marion's great strength supposed to be that he can score 20 a night without any plays being run for him?

 

[nowagimp]

- Utah coming off a tough road game in Seattle. That will be a factor if PHX decides to run tonight.

- Banks wasn't brought in to be the saviour. Too many of you had writen him off. Players need time and the right opportunity to build confidence within the system.

If some of you don't think he'll contribute more than Eddie House, then you need your head examined.

- The Suns looked like an All-Star team out there. They came at Philly in waves. I fully expect this team to string off about 10 in a row soon.

- Marion did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do. He made AI work for his points. And, when he realized nothing was going to be given to him, he started chucking 3's.

I would rather see Marion defer his offense, instead of do something he can't do (shoot 3's).

- Is it me or has this team played better with Steve Nash on the sidelines this year? Nash has been slightly disappointing. He started off slow last year, so I'll attribute it to early season rust. He came into camp in great shape, yet didn't really see the dividends pay off.

It's VERY disconcerting to see him injured this early.

- D'Antoni was really pushing them hard last night. He was not going to let the Pat Burke's of the world let Philly back into it.

- Willie Green is a nice player.

Nice post sly fly:

1) Agree: Banks will be there, give him time to get used to the others, the way they move, and they to him. He's a WAY better defender and penetrator than House, and he's FAST on the break.

2) This team is ready for a streak, their play is up several levels compared with just a few games ago.

3) "Marion did exactly as he was supposed to do". Thats right, guarding AI is one of the toughest jobs in the NBA, Marion is a stud defensively. By the way the suns hold AI to 19.7 ppg and the next best team in the NBA is like 25ppg.

4) Cant agree on the Nash thing, player movement without the ball has been improving and defense is much more intense the last few games, making for some easy buckets. Leo has really stepped up his game, no doubt. I think when he and Nash are on the floor at the same time, Leo handles the ball less and its seems that Leo needs the ball to be a playmaker, have best impact. Maybe Leo needs to play backup point as well as '2' to make sure he makes plays for the suns. Hope Nash gets better fast, but also hope they dont rush him back.

5) Amare is a stud again. His quickness, footwork, and balance are close to the old amare. Dalembert looked just out of place trying to guard him. I loved that sick reverse spin double pump layup he made off the dribble, incredible its the old amare. Now he needs to get his strength up. Hopefully his 37 mins last night dont fatigue him too much for tonight.

 

[Gorilla]

And, when he realized nothing was going to be given to him, he started chucking 3's.

I don't understand this comment. Isn't Marion's great strength supposed to be that he can score 20 a night without any plays being run for him?

I think he is talking about AI chuking 3's after he realized nothing was being given to him.......

 

[Mainstreet]

Just a brief comment on Banks. He really had a nice came last night. This was really the first game I saw him focused on taking the ball to the hoop.

Although he has good speed, I noticed he did not have the breakaway speed and the hops of a player like Kevin Johnson to finish the play at the rim. I know the KJ comparison is unfair. However, Marcus can become quite a good defender as he demonstrated against Philly.

 

[sly fly]

I think he is talking about AI chuking 3's after he realized nothing was being given to him.......

Exactly Gorilla. AI gets frustrated if things don't go his way. I'd rather see him shooting off-balance 3's, than torching you from mid-range.

That being said, I think AI is one of the best athletes this universe has EVER seen. The things he can do at BARELY 6 feet tall, while getting pounded every night is simply amazing. The guy is close to unstoppable as they come. He makes it look very easy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nice post sly fly:

2) This team is ready for a streak, their play is up several levels compared with just a few games ago.

this kind of ignores the fact that while their play might be up, their level of competition is WAYYYYYYYYYYY down. The Grizz and the Sixers are really, really bad teams. Let's see us actually beat someone of worth before wwe say this team is ready to roll. Otherwise, we just sound like Laker fans the last two years who took every win as a turning point.

 

[elindholm]

I think he is talking about AI chuking 3's after he realized nothing was being given to him.......

Ah, sorry, I missed that. But actually Iverson played very well. He had a few ill-advised deep shots, but he ended up with 23 points on 22 FGAs, and his eight assists were legitimate. That said, I agree that Marion did a good job defending him.

 

[nowagimp]

this kind of ignores the fact that while their play might be up, their level of competition is WAYYYYYYYYYYY down. The Grizz and the Sixers are really, really bad teams. Let's see us actually beat someone of worth before wwe say this team is ready to roll. Otherwise, we just sound like Laker fans the last two years who took every win as a turning point.

Obviously they are playing without Nash but Diaw, Stat look sharper than a few games ago. The team defense is also much more responsive and relentless. I think the movement, quickness of Amare alone indicates a big improvement. You expect that improvements will come because several of these guys havent played together very much.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Kg on the block is a possibility, marc stein is one of the few credible reporters. Marion, atlanta pick, let's get this done. (That ain't enough I now, but he mentions the suns, along with several other teams to be fair, and we have a lot of pieces).

hsandhu.

Did a little checking on RealGM. The only scenario that seems to work would be Marion/KT for KG.

It seems to me that would be reasonable, without adding any picks. But the arguments against it are pretty stiff. Too much chemistry disruption for us. We are reading alot into facial expressions on the bench, and Marion's failure to pass to Amare as much as some would like.

Marion's #'s are identical to KG's, so we would not be gaining alot there. There is no real indication that KG and Amare would mesh any better than Marion and Amare do. Marion is incredibly healthy and uniquely adapted to our offense. We have no guarantee KG would fit in to such an offense.

I just don't see it. We give up depth with KT too. If anything happens like this, it will happen in the off-season--not now. Not unless we start playing really poorly and mgmt things things have to be shaken up to win the title this year.

 

[fordronken]

I think Banks brings a lot to the table. He gets a lot os strips on double teams where everyone else we've ever had in the D'Antoni era just gets called for fouls. He also gets to the free thow line, which is huge for our offense when Nash is out.

 

[elindholm]

Marion/Bell/James Jones also works for Garnett, and makes a bit more sense for both teams.

It is not true that Marion and Garnett are statistically identical. Garnett is a much better playmaker (assists) and gets to the line far more often.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Marion's #'s are identical to KG's, so we would not be gaining alot there.

I don't see it happpening, but the above comment is a head scratcher to me. Numbers aren't everything (even though KG's numbers ARE in fact better that Marion's across the board). Marion guarding bigs forces us to double-team, rotate and allow for wide-open shooters. KG needs ZERO help whatsoever as far that's concerned, which would instantly make us a better defensive team. He's also a better rebounder, actually has an offensive game where he can create not only for hismelf, but he can do so for others as well.

To say Marion and KT is reasonable would ONLY be reasonable to homer Suns fans IMO. Anyone else would laugh that deal off the table within a mili-second.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Marion/Bell/James Jones also works for Garnett, and makes a bit more sense for both teams.

i see no reason Minnesota would make that deal. The only way a Marion + gets Garnett is if Atlanta's picks are thrown in. If they get rid of Garnett it's a sign they're ready to completely rebuild, which means they'll want picks, not a guy in his 30's and some scrub who has never proven a thing IMO.

 

[Chaz]

Nice effort by the Suns.

Good to see Banks with a nice game off the bench when we needed him.

Nice to see Amare rounding back into form as well.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't see it happpening, but the above comment is a head scratcher to me. Numbers aren't everything (even though KG's numbers ARE in fact better that Marion's across the board). Marion guarding bigs forces us to double-team, rotate and allow for wide-open shooters. KG needs ZERO help whatsoever as far that's concerned, which would instantly make us a better defensive team. He's also a better rebounder, actually has an offensive game where he can create not only for hismelf, but he can do so for others as well.

To say Marion and KT is reasonable would ONLY be reasonable to homer Suns fans IMO. Anyone else would laugh that deal off the table within a mili-second.

Sorry to mystify you. I was just comparing #'s. Typically, Marion's #'s have been better than KG's across the board. In fact Marion has been the ultimate fantasy player in the league the last few years. I guess it really depends on what you compare to what (year to year, life-time averages, etc).

But numbers, of course, are not the whole story. KG's size would make defending the smaller players that Marion does nearly impossible for him. Marion defended AI a significant amount of time last night. I can't see KG doing that. KG is going to be able to defend big men though, and much better than Marion.

Its two different players, with two very different games. I'm not sure which would work best in our system. I have a hunch that Marion would, but not because he is a better player (he is not). If KG came here, we would have to adjust our system.

I guess my point is that I can't see this trade happening because it would be too much of a risk in a championship run type of year. If things start to go south, then it would make sense to pull the trigger.

The idea of KG ending up with the Lakers is scary though.

I am decidedly ambivalent on this matter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sorry to mystify you. I was just comparing #'s. Typically, Marion's #'s have been better than KG's across the board.

huh? How can Marion's #s have been better than KG's across the board when KG has averaged more points, rebounds and assists and blocks throughout the course of his career? If Marion's numbers were typically better, wouldn't logic dictate the opposite in those numbers, either by year or by career, or at least in ONE of those years? Really a head scratcher there also.

 

[Nate]

I don't see it happpening, but the above comment is a head scratcher to me. Numbers aren't everything (even though KG's numbers ARE in fact better that Marion's across the board). Marion guarding bigs forces us to double-team, rotate and allow for wide-open shooters. KG needs ZERO help whatsoever as far that's concerned, which would instantly make us a better defensive team. He's also a better rebounder, actually has an offensive game where he can create not only for hismelf, but he can do so for others as well.

To say Marion and KT is reasonable would ONLY be reasonable to homer Suns fans IMO. Anyone else would laugh that deal off the table within a mili-second.

I agree with your defensive assesment regarding the Marion-Garnett comparison, but think that you are undervalueing Marions offensive contribution even if he is not touching the ball in a possession. Marions as good as always (if he is not the def. rebounder) the first one under the opponents basket and very often has to be defended by an opposing backcourt player. This inevitably leads to mismatches between an opposing big and one of our perimeter players, which is the first step to break down the opposing defense.

Our small players are usually either quick and adept at driving or are supreme three point shooters. Marions ability to outrun almost anybody in the league, especially every big in the league, leads to quite a lot of high-percentage scoring opportunities for our team, as long as everybody on our team is commited to running.

If you exchange Marion for Garnett, our offense wouldnt work anymore. The question remains, whether the remaining cast of certainly very good talent meshes well in another kind of offense, though that they dont lose on offense what they have gained on D. Our talent and ball movement would certainly be great, but our spacing and running game probably will be much worse. That doesnt bode well for players like Raja or Barbs, if we could keep one of them in a trade. Our frontcourt would be great, but the backcourt a disaster. And there would be no money left to sign some replacements...

You also say, that Garnett creates for others in contrast to Marion. In that regard it would make much more sense to trade Diaw. There is just one ball, and we would have far too many players who need the ball in their hands a lot of the time to really use their strenghts on offense with Amare, Nash, Garnett, Banks and Diaw.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree with your defensive assesment regarding the Marion-Garnett comparison, but think that you are undervalueing Marions offensive contribution even if he is not touching the ball in a possession. Marions as good as always (if he is not the def. rebounder) the first one under the opponents basket and very often has to be defended by an opposing backcourt player. This inevitably leads to mismatches between an opposing big and one of our perimeter players, which is the first step to break down the opposing defense.

Our small players are usually either quick and adept at driving or are supreme three point shooters. Marions ability to outrun almost anybody in the league, especially every big in the league, leads to quite a lot of high-percentage scoring opportunities for our team, as long as everybody on our team is commited to running.

If you exchange Marion for Garnett, our offense wouldnt work anymore. The question remains, whether the remaining cast of certainly very good talent meshes well enough on offense. Our talent and ball movement would certainly be great, but our spacing and running game probably will be much worse. That doesnt bode well for players like Raja or Barbs, if we could keep one of them in a trade. Our frontcourt would be great, but the backcourt a disaster. And there would be no money left to sign some replacements...

You also say, that Garnett creates for others in contrast to Marion. In that regard it would make much more sense to trade Diaw. There is just one ball, and we would have far too many players who need the ball in their hands a lot of the time to really use their strenghts on offense with Amare, Nash, Garnett, Banks and Diaw.

my only issue with any of the above is that our offense hasn't shown the ability to win a title and in the playoffs, where defense get better, we've seen Marion get completely neutralized to the point of almost zero contribution.

As far as it would make much more sense to trade Diaw - sure it would, but Minnesota wouldn't trade Garnett for a package where the main part is Diaw, so it's a moot point.

as far as our offense not working anymore, I think if you were somehow able to get Garnett for Marion, Diaw and a pick or Marion and two number ones, our offense would be able to work PERFECTLY. DA salivates at the three guard offense and with Garnett and Amare as the front court, he could consistently get away with Nash, Barbs and Bell out there as his guards. That offense would be unstoppable in the half-court with two guys who can draw double teams, two guys who can run the ick and roll and three three point shooters waiting for the kick out.

but, it's all a pipe dream anyway because we ain't getting Garnett unless we were to throw Marion, Barbs and a pick and that's too much to give up.

 

[Nate]

Sure its a pipe dream. We can certainly agree on that.

 

[elindholm]

i see no reason Minnesota would make that deal. The only way a Marion + gets Garnett is if Atlanta's picks are thrown in. If they get rid of Garnett it's a sign they're ready to completely rebuild, which means they'll want picks, not a guy in his 30's and some scrub who has never proven a thing IMO.

I didn't say they'd do it, I said it makes more sense than Marion/Thomas. And sure, picks would probably be necessary.

For salary cap reasons, Minnesota will have to take a big contract back. Marion has only two years left, so that's not bad. One year would be even better, but not if the Wolves want any continuity at all. You think they'd rather trade him for Odom?

Who's the "guy in his 30's"? Marion is 28 and Bell just turned 30. Garnett is the old man of the group, four months older than Bell.

It's pointless to debate which teams would accept which trade packages, but I think we can at least talk about which packages are more or less attractive than others.