Suns waive a player

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by elindholm
And now they might be forced to play Archibald in that lineup, instead of DerMarr...and you have a problem with that?

I wouldn't if the Suns would actually try using a center. But instead, DJohnson will be replaed in that lineup by Jacobsen or Barbosa. If you've followed the Suns at all, you know this is true.

Plus, minutes for DerMarr mean minutes for Marion at PF, and I don't want to see that happen.

If getting rid of DJohnson would keep Marion out of the PF spot, I'd be all for it. But I guarantee you it won't. Expect to see Marion at PF often.

Let me see if I understand you clearly.


You're fine with cutting DerMarr--in fact, you would have done the same thing yourself if you were running the team.

However, when the Colangeli (and FJ) cut him, it was the wrong thing to do, because they're stupid .


Is that an accurate summary of your views here?

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Why the sarcasm?

That was not a sarcasm.

Why not actually try to contribute to the conversation?

I did try to contribute to the conversation.

 

[elindholm]

You have no basis for that opinion.

I beg your pardon. I do not require your permission to form an opinion.

Or perhaps I overlooked your smiley face?

You can have an opinion, but it's the same as saying that you hate a certain food without ever trying it.

It would be the same as saying that I think I hate a certain food when (a) a few years ago, the food was selected "sixth most disgusting food in the league," (b) recently, many people I know said they hate the food, and (c) a statistical survey showed that a disproportionate number of people hate the food.

DerMarr Johnson is a former #6 overall pick. He is still only 23 years old. Between his first and second years in the league, he improved in every statistical category (except turnovers and fouls). He is slender, but he has always been slender.

The reports were that he was moving well on the court, apparently showing no serious effects from his injury. His numbers during the exhibition season were better than Jacobsen's and about as good as Barbosa's.

In short, the evidence clearly indicates two things:

1. In the opinion of people who should know, he has a lot of talent -- thus the high lottery pick.

2. Based on his recent play (according to the box scores), he seems to be in a position to make use of that talent.

It's too soon to tell about Barbosa, so for me it comes down to DJohnson versus Jacobsen. Jacobsen was a low draft pick and has had more than a year to show that he was underrated and overlooked. That hasn't happened.

DJohnson has played better in the exhibition season, had more talent in the first place, and is only a year older. For me, that is plenty of evidence to form the opinion that he would likely be better for the Suns than Jacobsen would be.

Yes, I know box scores don't tell the whole story. But they are right more often than they are wrong. If you play the percentages, DJohnson certainly looks like a better choice at this point.

 

[elindholm]

Let me see if I understand you clearly.

You're fine with cutting DerMarr--in fact, you would have done the same thing yourself if you were running the team.

However, when the Colangeli (and FJ) cut him, it was the wrong thing to do, because they're stupid.

Why is it that we aren't allowed to express negative opinions around here? Wasn't it just a couple of days ago that we were all happy to learn that DJohnson hadn't been waived yet?

If I ran the team, I would not play Marion at PF. I probably would park Jacobsen on the IR and give his spot to DJohnson. At least I'd give myself more time to decide.

But I do not run the team. Small-ball fanatics do. Given that, I don't know why they shouldn't at least keep their best small players. So far, it looks as though DJohnson has the chance to be better than Jacobsen -- in fact, it looks fairly likely. So why not keep him, at least until having the opportunity to be sure?

Answer: Money. Not this year's money, later money.

 

[Chaz]

DID ANYONE HERE ACTUALLY SEE THIS GUY PLAY A GAME OR PRACTICE?

Sorry for the yelling I was starting to think no one could hear me and it is a sincere question.

Does anyone have any solid info on this guy other than his potential, pre-accident talent, or hype?

I mean the Suns have seen him and worked with him in practice and preseason games. I don't know if this guy is any good or not because I haven't seen him.
Therefore, I have to believe they had a reason to cut him. Like he is not as good as we/they hoped.

 

[NDSunsfan]

Seems like there's a lot of concern over someone who would be the Suns 11th-15th player in the rotation.

Last year the Suns played 14 players all season:
Marbury/Marion/Amare/JJ--played in 81 or 82 games
Outlaw--80
Penny--58
Casey--72
Scott Wms--69
Little Jake--65
Langhi--60 (540 minutes played)
Big Jake--33
Googs--27
Randy Brown--32
Ford--11

DJ would be either a Langhi or a Ford equivalent on the team this year, most likely, right?

Somehow, I seem to remember similar discussions last season regarding Ford and how he needs a chance, yada, yada, yada. Where is he now---didn't he get cut by the Magic last week?

I can't believe Langhi played in 60 games last year. Even if it was only 9 minutes per game on average.

I'm not pro or con on DeMarr. I just can't believe it matters that much.

The Suns must be in a pretty good place if all we have to discuss is the 14th guy on the roster.

BTW, it is cool to see Marbury and Amare on the EA NBA LIVE 2004 commercials. No other team has 2 players.


Go Suns!


Brad

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by elindholm
Why is it that we aren't allowed to express negative opinions around here? Wasn't it just a couple of days ago that we were all happy to learn that DJohnson hadn't been waived yet?

If I ran the team, I would not play Marion at PF. I probably would park Jacobsen on the IR and give his spot to DJohnson. At least I'd give myself more time to decide.

But I do not run the team. Small-ball fanatics do. Given that, I don't know why they shouldn't at least keep their best small players. So far, it looks as though DJohnson has the chance to be better than Jacobsen -- in fact, it looks fairly likely. So why not keep him, at least until having the opportunity to be sure?

Answer: Money. Not this year's money, later money.

I guess I'll count that as a 'yes'.

You're allowed to express your opinion--who knows, you might be right. I can't prove that the Suns' brain trust isn't stupid, and if they are, holding DerMarr might make sense.

However, if I were running the team, 'later' money would be very important to me, because I think I could spend it in ways that would make a difference. It seems (from other threads) that you feel the same way.



DerMarr isn't going to be a viable replacement for Casey Jacobsen unless he's willing to agree to a 5-year, $6m contract (or thereabouts). The Suns can afford Jacobsen, and he's willing to be a career backup; I wouldn't believe those things about DerMarr without evidence.

If Jacobsen turns out to be a bust--which is not even close to a certainty IMO--then the obvious long-term answer at backup SG is the draft, where the Suns should have two or three decent picks in the next two years.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SirChaz
DID ANYONE HERE ACTUALLY SEE THIS GUY PLAY A GAME OR PRACTICE?

I have not.

BTW, did anyone here actually see Cabarkapa or Barbosa to play?
Noone did.
We still trust them.Maybe because we are Suns fans.

Back to DeMarr Johnson:

I was happy when Suns signed him. I hoped that Suns got a steal in him and he can be a vital contributor.
Now that this hope is over why should I have to be satisfied?

Actually I'm a bit dissappointed and that's it.

 

[elindholm]

However, if I were running the team, 'later' money would be very important to me, because I think I could spend it in ways that would make a difference. It seems (from other threads) that you feel the same way.

Yes, I agree that spending "later" money is going to be a very important strategic consideration.

DerMarr isn't going to be a viable replacement for Casey Jacobsen unless he's willing to agree to a 5-year, $6m contract (or thereabouts). The Suns can afford Jacobsen, and he's willing to be a career backup; I wouldn't believe those things about DerMarr without evidence.

Excellent point. I agree.

I'm not saying that cutting DJohnson is necessarily a mistake. I'm saying that it is more likely a financial decision than a basketball-talent one. If it were up to me, I would probably keep him, but maybe not. The main argument that I'm engaged in is why he was cut. It looks to me like you and I are on the same page, or at least close to it.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm


I'm not saying that cutting DJohnson is necessarily a mistake. I'm saying that it is more likely a financial decision than a basketball-talent one. If it were up to me, I would probably keep him, but maybe not. The main argument that I'm engaged in is why he was cut. It looks to me like you and I are on the same page, or at least close to it.

Well, I'm fairly certain I also would prefer to keep him, especially at his going rate. If anything, he could be a good trade bait later in the season if he was playing well--and could be packaged with Googs.

I also, would like to find out WHY, and frankly, none of us really has the evidence to back up our opinions.

I apologize for being abrasive toward you, Eric, no hard feelings, I hope?

 

[Chaz]

I am just suprised that he was cut this early.

I figure there are two posibilities.

1.No good or didn't fit - He was not working out with the system, attitude, talent level, or whatever.
2.Good player caught in the numbers at his position - They wanted to give him to have a chance to get a job with another team before preseason ends.

I guess of course it could be a little of both. They knew he would not make the roster cut and decided he should not take any PT away from someone that has a chance.

I guess we'll see if he lands with someone else. I have not seen or heard of anything other than his draft position to make me think this guy is any good. I think we all had hope the Suns had found a diamond. To bad that wasn't the case.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I think also that maybe the Suns Brass knew that Dermarr wouldn't get much playing time, and that he did have the talent to contribute to a team, albeit not the suns, and thus let him go while there's still time to sign onto another team and make it. Perhaps Dermarr prompted this conversation, who knows.

But I will echo the sentiments that it's a shame that we can't keep him and that I'd much rather have him over Jacobsen at this point.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Ok, Im joingin this late, so sorry if I repeat anyone else:

The releasing of Demarr can be turned into a good thing. It means tha tthe suns coaches and maangement have complete confidence in JJs ability to play on a consistant basis. It also means they saw some improvement in Casey's game.

I look at it this way. Demarr Johnson was signed to a make good contract as an insurance policy. Same thing with all the big men we still have.

IMO he would have stayed on if they felt JJ would dissapear for long times again, and if they thought Casey was going to be a horrific shooter. They are obviously impressed with the consistancy in JJs game so far, they fill that position on the bench does not warrant an insurance player.

The big men are still on the roster because our front line has already had several injuries, and has a player who no one is sure will stay healthy (googs). One or two of them will stay on in case Williams and googs fall again (which unfortunately is a distinct possibilty).

It is not that the suns felt that Demarr wouldnt get playing time behind casey and JJ, it is that they didn't need to pay all 3 of them with the first two playing well. I am sure they have some remorse of letting such a good prospect go, but JC is not the maloofs...........as much as that extreme depth is helpful, it just isn't realistic financially for this team.

I repeat: Had Zarko not been so impressive this summer, or JJ lacked consistancy, I believe DJ would have been signed.

Just my 2 cents

 

[capologist]

No, I don’t think DerMarr would have played at all. I don’t think he would even have made the active roster.

We have Steph, Brevin, Leandro, Penny, JJ, Casey, Shawn, Zarko, Amare, Googs, Voskuhl, Koturovic, and Williams. (Williams will start the season on IR, but won’t be there for long; he is projected to return two weeks into the season.) That’s 13 players who would be ahead of DerMarr, and it only takes 12 to fill up the active roster.

It could well be that the Suns told DerMarr that, if he made the team, he would be stashed on IR and activated only if a couple of players ahead of him get injured at the same time. And it could well be that DerMarr, faced with a season full of “Thirteenth Man’s Disease” (or Fourteenth, as the case may be), requested to be waived so that he’d have a chance to hook up with a team that would put him on the active roster.

 

[Glenn_Cameron]

"And it could well be that DerMarr, faced with a season full of “Thirteenth Man’s Disease” (or Fourteenth, as the case may be), requested to be waived so that he’d have a chance to hook up with a team that would put him on the active roster."

<b>I can't square the above description of a magnanimous Colangelo and then a Colangelo that would squander Big Jake to squirrel a few measly bucks after the considerable international hijinks it took to get him here.

 

[cardsunsfan]

If it were my team I would pick Johnson over Jacobson. Jacobson has shown little athletic ability since he was picked and he was a low draft pick. Johnson looked good this preason and was a high pick and obviously has athletic ability.

 

[Joe Mama]

I know we all haven't really seen D. Johnson played for the Phoenix Suns yet. Have we seen Casey Jacobsen since last year? There was the summer league, but I don't remember him doing much there either.

It's just my opinion of course, but I don't believe you Jacobsen and Johnson were both free-agent training camp invitees Johnson would still be with the team. But they are not both free-agent training camp invitees. Casey Jacobsen was a highly touted (by the Phoenix Suns) first-round draft pick just last year. He has this season and next left on his guaranteed contract.

Joe Mama

 

[cardsunsfan]

I'm kind of tired of Arizona teams being arrogant about their own players. If you gave most teams the option of Jacobson or Johnson who do you think they would pick?

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
If it were my team I would pick Johnson over Jacobson. Jacobson has shown little athletic ability since he was picked and he was a low draft pick. Johnson looked good this preason and was a high pick and obviously has athletic ability.

You're kidding, right?

Jacobsen, no athletic ability?

And, how many minutes have you seen DeMarr play in your life? Because, he didn't get too many here.

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
I'm kind of tired of Arizona teams being arrogant about their own players. If you gave most teams the option of Jacobson or Johnson who do you think they would pick?

Jacobsen.

Please tell me you've seen DeMarr play AFTER his broken neck.

If so, where?

 

[cardsunsfan]

He didn't even need surgery and from what I saw from preseason and from what I've heard he's better now than before he broke his neck. Who here thinks Jacobson is more athletic than Johnson?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
He didn't even need surgery and from what I saw from preseason and from what I've heard he's better now than before he broke his neck. Who here thinks Jacobson is more athletic than Johnson?

You have GOT to be kidding me. How many Hawks games do you actually watch? From what you saw in the preseason... hmmm.... DerMarr Johnson totaled 30 minutes in his brief Suns career. I'm sorry, I know you like the guy, but 30 minutes of garbage time does not give me any reason to think he's better now than before his injury.

 

[elindholm]

I'm sorry, I know you like the guy, but 30 minutes of garbage time does not give me any reason to think he's better now than before his injury.

Does it give you any reason to think he's worse?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm


Does it give you any reason to think he's worse?

Excuse me if I implied I thought he was worse--I though I basically said that 30 minutes of garbage time wasn't enough time to declare that he was this superstud player better than he was before his injury.

 

[3rdside]

what's up with this thread not moving down the page?