Suns @ Warriors 10-22-18

[leclerc]

Disappointed with Jackson so far (summer league, preseason, 2 of 3 regular season games) but hopefully he'll prove us all wrong and get his head out of his *** in a couple of weeks/months (I'm not saying years).

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Disappointed with Jackson so far (summer league, preseason, 2 of 3 regular season games) but hopefully he'll prove us all wrong and get his head out of his *** in a couple of weeks/months (I'm not saying years).

I truly believe he is just searching for his role in this offense. I am guessing he will play better as the season progresses. Just has to settle into a role that fits his skill set.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I watched the Warriors broadcast too, and they really sounded very impressed with the youngsters. And Barnett was right- Warren with a three-point shot is impossible to stop/ guard.

Yep. Warren is a huge bright spot right now.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Yep. Warren is a huge bright spot right no

I told all you Warren haters that he was the man with Booker. Hopefully no more Warren trade talk

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I told all you Warren haters that he was the man with Booker. Hopefully no more Warren trade talk

There was no way to know that his 3 point shot would look so much better this quickly. That was the biggest reason people were willing to see him go, but obviously he worked really hard on arguably his biggest weakness and is looking much better because of it.

 

[Hoop Head]

I told all you Warren haters that he was the man with Booker. Hopefully no more Warren trade talk

I've been a Warren fan and against trading him, generally, but the way that most have done a 180 on him makes me think we'll see unrealistic trade scenarios now overvaluing him. Adding a 3pt shot was big for him and it can only help his value but I still think he's just a quality starter. His contract is very cap friendly though and it's unlikely we could get anything close to that in return. We would need to trade him for a pick so we can have a player on a rookie deal but then we would need to wait until they are able to contribute to see the benefits of a Warren deal. Maybe he could bring back a good 2nd year player and then I would be ok with it but I can't think of a player that fits a need like that. If D'aaron Fox didn't have such an underwhelming rookie year I would look at him in a potential Warren deal but he seems farther behind offensively than a lot of people suspected. Then again, he plays for the Kings and that could be a big part of the problem.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

OK. Just noticing coinciding factors. That better?

Got it. Thx

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why do you always draw a rediculous conclusion every time? No where did I suggest they don’t count as either of those things. I am simply less bothered by an unselfish turnover by Booker than him turning it over simply because he decided to dribble into heavy traffic. He still needs to clean it up, but he is clearly trying to find his teammates on a regular basis so far this season and I see that as a positive.

Eh, I get the point you’re trying to make. That he has good intentions. But a turnover is a turnover. The road to nba purgatory is paved in good intentions.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Eh, I get the point you’re trying to make. That he has good intentions. But a turnover is a turnover. The road to nba purgatory is paved in good intentions.

And I'm obviously not advocating that it would be okay for him to keep turning the ball over in that manner. I just like how unselfish he is being with the ball this year and thus I can live with the turnovers in that game. He will need to do a better job going forward of limiting turnovers though.

 

[Yuma]

What's stunning about this game is that TJ had 27 points in 24 mins, and still had a -9 plus/minus... Wow!

Maybe I am misunderstanding this stat, but from what I understand, is say you come in and score all of your teams 30 points in a quarter, you just go off big time. But your team loses the quarter 30-35. You are -5 for the quarter even though you are Superman! I have watched games when we bring in an Alex Len, and we go on a 12-0 run. Len sits the rest of the game and now he's +12 for the game. I hate plus/minus stats.

 

[Yuma]

I've been a Warren fan and against trading him, generally, but the way that most have done a 180 on him makes me think we'll see unrealistic trade scenarios now overvaluing him. Adding a 3pt shot was big for him and it can only help his value but I still think he's just a quality starter. His contract is very cap friendly though and it's unlikely we could get anything close to that in return. We would need to trade him for a pick so we can have a player on a rookie deal but then we would need to wait until they are able to contribute to see the benefits of a Warren deal. Maybe he could bring back a good 2nd year player and then I would be ok with it but I can't think of a player that fits a need like that. If D'aaron Fox didn't have such an underwhelming rookie year I would look at him in a potential Warren deal but he seems farther behind offensively than a lot of people suspected. Then again, he plays for the Kings and that could be a big part of the problem.

Warren has always been a good value player. However, he has always been a mid range to low post player. We go out and get Anderson and Ariza to bring in the 3 point shooting. Now Warren has seemingly developed a three point shot. Arguably if he had been shooting the three this way the whole time, he would have cost us a whole lot more to extend. Great for us he is developing this now! LOL!

 

[AzStevenCal]

And I'm obviously not advocating that it would be okay for him to keep turning the ball over in that manner. I just like how unselfish he is being with the ball this year and thus I can live with the turnovers in that game. He will need to do a better job going forward of limiting turnovers though.

He fumbled the ball away a couple of times too and I wonder how much of that is due to his hand? Not practicing probably doesn't help either. But regardless, he just isn't a natural point guard IMO and we need one next to him.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

He fumbled the ball away a couple of times too and I wonder how much of that is due to his hand? Not practicing probably doesn't help either. But regardless, he just isn't a natural point guard IMO and we need one next to him.

I think the Dallas game was a prime example of what this offense looks like when it is hitting on all cylinders. When it is being ran like that it doesn't particularly need a facilitating PG as all the PG needs to do in that offense is bring the ball up the court and make the initial pass that gets the ball moving around the floor. They just need to execute properly and Booker will be just fine IMO.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think the Dallas game was a prime example of what this offense looks like when it is hitting on all cylinders. When it is being ran like that it doesn't particularly need a facilitating PG as all the PG needs to do in that offense is bring the ball up the court and make the initial pass that gets the ball moving around the floor. They just need to execute properly and Booker will be just fine IMO.

Yeah, the main problem (on offense, anyway) is that the three-point shots were not falling in the last two games.
They shot 28% and 26% in the last two games. Ariza was 2-12, Anderson 2-11, Booker 4/15.
Ariza is a 35% career three-point shooter, Anderson is a 38% career three-point shooter, and Booker is Booker is a 37% career three-point shooter.

Bridges and Canaan combined for 2-11 against the Warriors, though they did shoot 5-10 against Denver.

This will all even out, and the offense is going to look better. Don't get me wrong, a good point guard would be a good addition, but the Suns didn't lose the last two games because of point guard play. They lost them because of poor defense and awful three-point shooting.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And I'm obviously not advocating that it would be okay for him to keep turning the ball over in that manner. I just like how unselfish he is being with the ball this year and thus I can live with the turnovers in that game. He will need to do a better job going forward of limiting turnovers though.

I get that. It’s a learning process and he can’t learn without making errors.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, the main problem (on offense, anyway) is that the three-point shots were not falling in the last two games.
They shot 28% and 26% in the last two games. Ariza was 2-12, Anderson 2-11, Booker 4/15.
Ariza is a 35% career three-point shooter, Anderson is a 38% career three-point shooter, and Booker is Booker is a 37% career three-point shooter.

Bridges and Canaan combined for 2-11 against the Warriors, though they did shoot 5-10 against Denver.

This will all even out, and the offense is going to look better. Don't get me wrong, a good point guard would be a good addition, but the Suns didn't lose the last two games because of point guard play. They lost them because of poor defense and awful three-point shooting.

I didn’t see nearly as much movement on offense in the warriors game as the Mavs game. More stagnation. That makes the three ball easier to defend too.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree. It is no fun giving up on players, but if we're counting on Jackson becoming one of our "big 3", I just don't see it happening.

He seems to lack the magical traits to be anything more than mediocre and inconsistent.

Our second draft pick this year should have provided that potential. That is the disappointing part.

This keeps going through my mind as well. I'm not sure if Jackson will ever be a good shooter. I hope to be wrong.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This keeps going through my mind as well. I'm not sure if Jackson will ever be a good shooter. I hope to be wrong.

Man, Scottie pippen averaged 7.8pts on 47% 2pt, 17% 3pt, and 57% ft shooting. He averaged 3.8reb, 2.1 assists, 1.7 turnovers.

We are three games into JJ’s 2nd season after he arguably got slop coaching last year.

You guys would’ve shipped out pippen at his lowest value.

 

[Mainstreet]

Man, Scottie pippen averaged 7.8pts on 47% 2pt, 17% 3pt, and 57% ft shooting. He averaged 3.8reb, 2.1 assists, 1.7 turnovers.

We are three games into JJ’s 2nd season after he arguably got slop coaching last year.

You guys would’ve shipped out pippen at his lowest value.

I was talking about if Jackson will become one of the Suns top three players. His shooting makes me question that.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I was talking about if Jackson will become one of the Suns top three players. His shooting makes me question that.

And that is a pretty hard stance to take just 3 games into a players' 2nd season. Is it too much to ask to at least see 15-20 games of the season before people start making bold statements about the team and its' players?

 

[Mainstreet]

And that is a pretty hard stance to take just 3 games into a players' 2nd season. Is it too much to ask to at least see 15-20 games of the season before people start making bold statements about the team and its' players?

It's an opinion. I don't consider that a hard stance. I want him to succeed like every Suns fan should.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Man, Scottie pippen averaged 7.8pts on 47% 2pt, 17% 3pt, and 57% ft shooting. He averaged 3.8reb, 2.1 assists, 1.7 turnovers.

We are three games into JJ’s 2nd season after he arguably got slop coaching last year.

You guys would’ve shipped out pippen at his lowest value.

the lack of patience on this board just makes me shake my head. We were the WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE last year guys. We have a bunch of REALLY young building blocks. Give guys a little time. Hell, two weeks ago, some people were saying Bridges was starting to worry them... before he even PLAYED A GAME.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think the Dallas game was a prime example of what this offense looks like when it is hitting on all cylinders. When it is being ran like that it doesn't particularly need a facilitating PG as all the PG needs to do in that offense is bring the ball up the court and make the initial pass that gets the ball moving around the floor. They just need to execute properly and Booker will be just fine IMO.

That's how Utah looked last season, from what I saw. They had Rubio and Mitchell there also as distributors. When things would break down for us and either Booker or Canaan would play 'hero ball' they had Mitchell doing that or Rubio running a quick halfcourt set. Booker definitely covers what Mitchell did but adding someone who can set up a quick play like Rubio would be ideal. Not many PG's can do that but I think we'll find someone this summer that can. Part of what they did well and I expect to see the Suns try in the future was crossing the halfcourt line quick. It wasn't really to get transition points so much as have more time in a halfcourt set so they got good looks. Utah didn't hit their stride until January also, being 12th in the West until late January.

 

[JCSunsfan]

the lack of patience on this board just makes me shake my head. We were the WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE last year guys. We have a bunch of REALLY young building blocks. Give guys a little time. Hell, two weeks ago, some people were saying Bridges was starting to worry them... before he even PLAYED A GAME.

For me, it’s not lack of patience over Jackson as much as being sold on Bridges.

 

[Cheesebeef]

For me, it’s not lack of patience over Jackson as much as being sold on Bridges.

JC... late March last year, you wrote a self-described "sacrilegious" post that JJ was arguably very close in value to Booker.

"Why is Booker so much more valuable than Jackson? Jackson plays two ways and he is only a rookie. Jackson is arguably very close in value to Booker. We ought not trade either one of those guys."

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/summer-trades.259719/page-2#post-3678057

At the end of last season, you said you wouldn't even trade Jackson for Tatum.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/what-would-it-take.265423/page-3#post-3710473

Three weeks ago, you talked about him possibly being our starting PG.

Hell, we could probably look back to just Game 1 this year to find you very happy with Jackson and his 18 points and wondering if Bridges will ever see the floor. Now two games later, you're ready to decide one of them is already expendable?

We ALL need to take a deeeeeeeeeep breath, me thinks. I fear a lot of us (me included on the fire in Ayton's belly) are prisoner of the moment right now. We have been DYING for this team to merely be watchable for almost decade and now that there's actually reason to watch, we want it all... and we want it NOW. But truth is the rebuilding has JUST FINALLY begun in earnest. No need to press the fast-forward button for anything but a dynamite PG while risking losing someone who all of us were sky-high on just a matter of months ago.