Surprising Draft

[Harry]

With getting the QBOTF looking to be too costly, going into the draft I expected the Cards to have 2 objectives; fill the holes on defense and protect Bradford. The concept being to stop the opponents from scoring and to give Bradford a chance put just enough points to win. Instead it appears the Cards are willing to take a pass on the 2018 season (honestly it was a longshot anyway). Instead I think they are thinking 2019 or 2020. It’s not just moving up to get Rosen. That was a no brainer. Clearly the Cards have a poor WR unit. Kirk is a sound player and an excellent punt returner. He can be effective in 2018 because he’s the best route runner in the draft and can help with field position. Route running is a rare WR skill in college. It often takes 2-3 years for a pick to learn this skill. The problem is can they get him the ball? That will require time and protection for Bradford. Some will point to 3rd round pick Cole as help, but he’s a backup. It’s possible one day he may become the starting center, but that’s not assured. He can play the other spots, but wouldn’t likely hold up long term. He’s a technician, not an outstanding athlete. In the right matchup he’s okay, but in too many cases he’ll be overmatched.

Once the Cards decided they would take a WR they had to go in round 2. All the good ones were gone by pick 60. I’m just surprised they didn’t get more aggressive in free agency for WRs.

Then they could have selected Connor Williams in round 2. He should become a starter rapidly. He may not be an All Pro, but he would have been good enough to help.

I’m not disputing quickly fixing the Cards was a tough assignment. It was always a question of what year to target. However if you’re going long term why sign Bradford & Glennon and tie up all the free agent money that could have been used to fill other holes long term. Especially the Glennon money looks to have been spent too quickly. Those signings just don’t fit now. They kill flexibility. It seems to me the Cards switched horses midstream. Even Lincoln knew that was a bad idea. Sadly this is not a deep draft. I’ll put something up, but by the time the Cards pick it will be complimentary players and special teams at best.

So what’s all this mean. Well it’s true the Cards couldn’t have expected Rosen to fall into their lap. They had to take him. The question is was it good strategy to change plans after selecting Rosen? I don’t think so. First while I think Kirk is a fine receiver that’s also a position where free agents are readily available and many drafts (not this one) are deep here. Offensive linemen are getting to be a rare commodity. You’d better take one when you can. Of course the Cards now could lose enough games to get one next year, but it usually takes a year to get the ready to coordinate line play. So now we’re talking 2020. I’m getting too old to like long term solutions. If they wanted to shore up the defense D Jackson and Oliver were still on the board.

The Cards will get A’s & B’s from most graders. I think time will prove them wrong. Bradford must be concerned.

My conclusion is simple. The Cards likely finish fourth in the West. They won’t re-sign Bradford even if he plays well although he’ll likely be hurt. Since Rosen is similar in playing style he begins 2019 as the starter. They likely focus in the next draft on OL and WR candidates. The concern is how much punishment can Rosen take in 2019?

It’s weird because on the surface there’s nothing wrong with the selections. They all should be useful NFL players. My feeling is that one of the main things that separates teams is their ability to assemble a synergistic roster. The Cards have good pieces. I’m just not sure when you assemble these pieces to they make a winning picture?

 

[GuernseyCard]

So... if you knew then what you know now, you wouldn't have signed Bradford and Glennon.

Same here, do I get a cookie?

And CB Jackson was off the board when we selected Kirk.

 

[Shaggy]

So... if you knew then what you know now, you wouldn't have signed Bradford and Glennon.

Same here, do I get a cookie?

And CB Jackson was off the board when we selected Kirk.

I'd still would have signed Bradford and Glennon. I wouldn't want to be starting Rosen right off the bat this year.

 

[Cardiac]

With getting the QBOTF looking to be too costly, going into the draft I expected the Cards to have 2 objectives; fill the holes on defense and protect Bradford. The concept being to stop the opponents from scoring and to give Bradford a chance put just enough points to win. Instead it appears the Cards are willing to take a pass on the 2018 season (honestly it was a longshot anyway). Instead I think they are thinking 2019 or 2020. It’s not just moving up to get Rosen. That was a no brainer. Clearly the Cards have a poor WR unit. Kirk is a sound player and an excellent punt returner. He can be effective in 2018 because he’s the best route runner in the draft and can help with field position. Route running is a rare WR skill in college. It often takes 2-3 years for a pick to learn this skill. The problem is can they get him the ball? That will require time and protection for Bradford. Some will point to 3rd round pick Cole as help, but he’s a backup. It’s possible one day he may become the starting center, but that’s not assured. He can play the other spots, but wouldn’t likely hold up long term. He’s a technician, not an outstanding athlete. In the right matchup he’s okay, but in too many cases he’ll be overmatched.

Once the Cards decided they would take a WR they had to go in round 2. All the good ones were gone by pick 60. I’m just surprised they didn’t get more aggressive in free agency for WRs.

Then they could have selected Connor Williams in round 2. He should become a starter rapidly. He may not be an All Pro, but he would have been good enough to help.

I’m not disputing quickly fixing the Cards was a tough assignment. It was always a question of what year to target. However if you’re going long term why sign Bradford & Glennon and tie up all the free agent money that could have been used to fill other holes long term. Especially the Glennon money looks to have been spent too quickly. Those signings just don’t fit now. They kill flexibility. It seems to me the Cards switched horses midstream. Even Lincoln knew that was a bad idea. Sadly this is not a deep draft. I’ll put something up, but by the time the Cards pick it will be complimentary players and special teams at best.

So what’s all this mean. Well it’s true the Cards couldn’t have expected Rosen to fall into their lap. They had to take him. The question is was it good strategy to change plans after selecting Rosen? I don’t think so. First while I think Kirk is a fine receiver that’s also a position where free agents are readily available and many drafts (not this one) are deep here. Offensive linemen are getting to be a rare commodity. You’d better take one when you can. Of course the Cards now could lose enough games to get one next year, but it usually takes a year to get the ready to coordinate line play. So now we’re talking 2020. I’m getting too old to like long term solutions. If they wanted to shore up the defense D Jackson and Oliver were still on the board.

The Cards will get A’s & B’s from most graders. I think time will prove them wrong. Bradford must be concerned.

My conclusion is simple. The Cards likely finish fourth in the West. They won’t re-sign Bradford even if he plays well although he’ll likely be hurt. Since Rosen is similar in playing style he begins 2019 as the starter. They likely focus in the next draft on OL and WR candidates. The concern is how much punishment can Rosen take in 2019?

It’s weird because on the surface there’s nothing wrong with the selections. They all should be useful NFL players. My feeling is that one of the main things that separates teams is their ability to assemble a synergistic roster. The Cards have good pieces. I’m just not sure when you assemble these pieces to they make a winning picture?

Isn't Glennon's contract typically what backup QB's get? Bradford won't be on the team next year and his dead money hit is $5 million IIRC. So we hit next FA period hard on Oline and a top notch WR and use the draft to enhance the D. Cards will be back on track next year to compete in the division.

 

[Dan H]

You have to pay a backup QB no matter what, and we got Glennon for a reasonable price.

Honestly, if the Niners don't take the Raiders guy, we don't get to trade up with the Raiders. At that point who knows if we can make a deal with the team's between 10 and 15, or if another team makes a crazy Jets type trade to move up for Rosen.

We had a shot and we took it. I'm cool with it.

 

[pinetopred]

I understand some of your frustration Harry, but I think the holes we had as a team all can't be fixed in one offseason. I think Keim tried to address o-line in FA did he do enough only time will tell we do have some young guys on the line in theory they should improve. I think new coaching staff will have alot to do with that.

Wide receiver is still a need another big body target would be a nice addition, or how about a TE or a big back to take the pressure off DJ.

CB 2 MLB D-lime depth are all needs IMO.

We all know the list of our needs and what we lack, but at some point you have to build for the future we have been drafting for awhile now in win now mode and that created holes in our roster IMO.

I think we addressed two long term areas with Rosen and Kirk and with DJ coming back those are 3 very good building blocks to start with. Maybe we get lucky and have a little more health on O-line this year, bUT eitherway I don't see us finishing 4th Seahawks just used a 1st round pick on a RB with all the holes on that roster.JMO

 

[slanidrac16]

Well, we signed Bradford because we didn’t want to trade valuable draft picks to get a qbotf. Had someone traded up and Rosen was gone this draft would have went a whole different way. Many of us have accepted a rebuilding year whether the Cardinals say it that way or not. We got our qbotf. We added to a depleted wr Corp. We’ve taken a big step to improve our return game. Finally we’ve added depth to the oline. Next year we have tons of cap space and I predict a draft slot between 12 and 18. We will be great some games this year and we will disappoint in others. If Bradford has a career year it will mean we did better than we thought. Bottom line is this draft was not going to turn us into a super bowl contender no matter who we drafted. The build for 2019 has begun.

 

[vince56]

.

I’m not disputing quickly fixing the Cards was a tough assignment. It was always a question of what year to target. However if you’re going long term why sign Bradford & Glennon and tie up all the free agent money that could have been used to fill other holes long term. Especially the Glennon money looks to have been spent too quickly. Those signings just don’t fit now. They kill flexibility. It seems to me the Cards switched horses midstream. Even Lincoln knew that was a bad idea. Sadly this is not a deep draft. I’ll put something up, but by the time the Cards pick it will be complimentary players and special teams at best.

They were hedging their bets. The draft is a crapshoot, and with idiotic teams like the Bills and Browns, there could've been six QBs picked before 15 this year. They had NO GUARANTEE one of the top 4 QBs would drop to them and they had ZERO QUARTERBACKS on the roster. We also absolutely lucked out that the Raiders traded the #10 for so little value, and I doubt anyone really saw that coming. The Cards absolutely had to go out and get a starter and a backup. True, Glennon doesn't fit at all right now, but I hardly think they were switching things up midstream. They did the best they could for the team at the time the decision was made with the information they had.

Would you rather they went into the draft with only someone like Gabbert on the roster? Would we have signed other free agents like Pugh and Smith if there was zero chance of winning next year? Hardly. As for Glennon's contract, it's 2 years, 8 mil (source). Chump change for a quarterback, and if he sits at #2 or #3 on the roster, fine. The cap is crazy huge this year anyway and Rosen's figure will be a slotted amount.

 

[az jam]

You don't need to use high picks to build a good offensive line. IMO you need a good offensive line coach.

 

[Harry]

So... if you knew then what you know now, you wouldn't have signed Bradford and Glennon.

Same here, do I get a cookie?

And CB Jackson was off the board when we selected Kirk.

No cookie! D Jackson CB, LSU went after Kirk. PP likes playing with LSU guys.

Not about hindsight. I think the Cards made a commitment to protect Bradford. They could have done better.

As for Glennon there was no rush. Sure you have to have a backup, as Dan notes, but not at this price. Compare him to other backups.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

I’m saying if you weren’t committed to winning in 2018 & you were considering moving to get a QB if one fell, don’t sign both QBs.

 

[GuernseyCard]

No cookie! D Jackson CB, LSU went after Kirk. PP likes playing with LSU guys.

Not about hindsight. I think the Cards made a commitment to protect Bradford. They could have done better.

As for Glennon there was no rush. Sure you have to have a backup, as Dan notes, but not at this price. Compare him to other backups.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

I’m saying if you weren’t committed to winning in 2018 & you were considering moving to get a QB if one fell, don’t sign both QBs.

My mistake, Jackson was off the board before our 3rd pick, which speaks to how he was valued.

Who says they weren't and aren't committed to winning in 2018?

There was no way of knowing how this draft would play out, so I fail to see your point.

 

[Cardiac]

No cookie! D Jackson CB, LSU went after Kirk. PP likes playing with LSU guys.

Not about hindsight. I think the Cards made a commitment to protect Bradford. They could have done better.

As for Glennon there was no rush. Sure you have to have a backup, as Dan notes, but not at this price. Compare him to other backups.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

I’m saying if you weren’t committed to winning in 2018 & you were considering moving to get a QB if one fell, don’t sign both QBs.

I agree that SK should have focused on Oline in the 2nd rd and even 3rd, I've been posting that in multiple threads. Glennon at 4 mil per yr isn't a CAP crusher IMO. I realize your playing chess when most of us are playing checkers so thanks for your thoughts.

 

[slanidrac16]

I also think signing Glennon muddled the picture of what we might be thinking as far as the draft. Were we set at QB? Could it be we weren’t thinking Qboft this draft? It freed us up to let the draft come to us. Rosen became available and we jumped on it. This board would have melted down if we traded a bunch of picks to move up to 5 to get a qb. Rightly so. We all agree that would have been a huge mistake. Had Rosen not become available we could have gone cb or ol and our rebuild would have gone in a different direction.

 

[football karma]

I think:

1. As soon as Cousins went elsewhere, Keim knew 2018 was about being competitive rather than contending, and, it would take a couple offseasons to clear dead money and restock.

2. Why not tank? i think Mike B is too competitive for that, and, in the Phoenix market-- you cannot tank and remain relevant.

3. I was advocating for Isaiah Oliver in rd 2, but i am ok with Kirk -- given the lack of returner skills and RAC ability at WR.

4. I think any draft where you address the QBOF with a top prospect, and, dont wreck the rest of current year or next years draft has to be considered a home run.

 

[overseascardfan]

No cookie! D Jackson CB, LSU went after Kirk. PP likes playing with LSU guys.

Not about hindsight. I think the Cards made a commitment to protect Bradford. They could have done better.

As for Glennon there was no rush. Sure you have to have a backup, as Dan notes, but not at this price. Compare him to other backups.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

I’m saying if you weren’t committed to winning in 2018 & you were considering moving to get a QB if one fell, don’t sign both QBs.

ARZ did not know back in March that Rosen would drop that far, they had to get aggressive. I will agree with you about ARZ should have been more active in their pursuit of WR's and CB's in FA but that's not Keim's MO. He finds cheap options instead of long term solutions. Keep an eye on Parry Nickerson & Tavierre Thomas today, ARZ has visited with both of them recently. I am hoping for Jamarco Jones in Round 4 and maybe another LB & CB. My hope is that Keim goes out and signs DRC to a multi year deal and solidify the #2 CB spot.

 

[cardncubfan]

The Cards needed a minimum of 2 QB's going into the season. There were no guarantees he would be able to draft one. It's called being prepared. It's way better than having only signed one QB & then not being able to get one in the draft.

 

[Harry]

I gave the first pick an A+. I can’t do better on that. Simply put, I think you take Rosen the go back to OL or CB. Rosen is so much like Bradford that what you do to protect Bradford works for Rosen. My only concern about Rosen is the concussion issue.

It’s not that I don’t like Kirk as a player and he’s at a need position. I just think he’s a luxury that would be easier to replace than a premier OL.

 

[overseascardfan]

I gave the first pick an A+. I can’t do better on that. Simply put, I think you take Rosen the go back to OL or CB. Rosen is so much like Bradford that what you do to protect Bradford works for Rosen. My only concern about Rosen is the concussion issue.

It’s not that I don’t like Kirk as a player and he’s at a need position. I just think he’s a luxury that would be easier to replace than a premier OL.

Concussions can happen to anyone anytime so I wouldn't hold that against Rosen like that idiot Stephen A Smith went on a long winded moronic tirade when Rosen stated teams made the mistake on passing on him. The shoulder would be more of a concern but we'll see.

Kirk to me was the best talent that would have the most immediate impact at #47, again the decision would have been tougher had Josh Jackson been there too. Jackson to me is a slot CB, he wouldn't be an outside guy and Oliver is an outside guy but I don't really view him as a ball hawk. ARZ can get a big CB in McFadden or Meeks today or they can go with a slot guy like Nickerson or Tavierre Thomas. I view Jamarco Jones as the guy ARZ needs to provide depth at both OT spots, I hope ARZ takes him.

 

[oaken1]

No cookie! D Jackson CB, LSU went after Kirk. PP likes playing with LSU guys.

Not about hindsight. I think the Cards made a commitment to protect Bradford. They could have done better.

As for Glennon there was no rush. Sure you have to have a backup, as Dan notes, but not at this price. Compare him to other backups.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

I’m saying if you weren’t committed to winning in 2018 & you were considering moving to get a QB if one fell, don’t sign both QBs.

Kevin Toliver II out of LSU is available...first round talent with fifth round attitude....at this point he is worth a shot...if he pans out we have a ten year starter

 

[oaken1]

I gave the first pick an A+. I can’t do better on that. Simply put, I think you take Rosen the go back to OL or CB. Rosen is so much like Bradford that what you do to protect Bradford works for Rosen. My only concern about Rosen is the concussion issue.

It’s not that I don’t like Kirk as a player and he’s at a need position. I just think he’s a luxury that would be easier to replace than a premier OL.

two or three centers went in the first round. That alone shows the depth of oline talent in this draft was lacking. Some of the guys were very good...pro bowl type guys... there just were not a ton of them to be had..... whereas WR... there are a ton of decent guys, a ton of big guys... but just not much when it comes to premier talent.

if it were me I probably would have flipped rounds two and three...center in 2, wr in three

I liked connor williams.... but did you see that kid get drafted?? He is a 100% cowboys fan.....dont think I have ever seen a guy so happy on draft day, he is right where he needs to be.... I realize that does not help our team but I think sometimes going to the team you grew up a fan of can make a difference for a kid...I think it will with williams, and I also think it will with Kirk

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Reminder that SK let EJ Gaines go somewhere else for $1 mil.

He could have been our starter at CB2 and relieved the need to draft another CB

 

[PACardsFan]

With a new coaching staff in place, there’s no way anyone can say with any amount of certainty what we’ll look like this year. I’m optimistic mainly because great offensive lines are more a result of coaching than sheer talent. Goodwin was a horrible OL coach & BA’s offensive schemes did not lend themselves to making an OLine better. If we went 8-8 last year, we could easily be better this year. Once we add stretching into the mix, I expect far fewer injuries. I love BA, but he could be a stubborn mule at times.

 

[gmabel830]

With the transition from a 3-4 base to 4-3 base, I am very surprised we didn't draft any front 7 players and one defensive player only.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[b8rtm8nn]

I gave the first pick an A+. I can’t do better on that. Simply put, I think you take Rosen the go back to OL or CB. Rosen is so much like Bradford that what you do to protect Bradford works for Rosen. My only concern about Rosen is the concussion issue.

It’s not that I don’t like Kirk as a player and he’s at a need position. I just think he’s a luxury that would be easier to replace than a premier OL.

There are football moves and there are business moves - this move covered both. Getting a hometown WR in a needed position in a likely down year (record wise) means a strong showing of fans. People pay good money for that.

 

[Veer]

I don't even know what Harry is talking about. We gave up next to nothing for Rosen, who could've easily went 1st overall in the last few drafts including this one. Stupid teams like the Bills made it possible. Rosen at 10 is an amazing steal. I couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw the compensation. If we paid our 2nd or 2019 1st for the swap I would've been fine. This is a dream scenario for us!

Yet Harry talks about Bradford. Know what? I'm done with Bradford already, never liked him and the sooner The Chosen One starts the better.

That said, I would fully understand Bradford starting the season. Main goal still has to be to get Rosen ready behind the scenes. Kirk is a surefire playmaker in my book from day 1. If just one of the remaining 4 draftees becomes a starter or impact player soon, this draft would be amazing. If just Rosen pans out, this draft will go down as franchise altering!