Tanking

[AzStevenCal]

Tanking is one of those words that almost has to be defined every time you use it. We're always in disagreement on this board regarding whether to tank or not to tank and the issue is even more clouded because we don't all mean the same thing when we use that word.

For me, when tanking means intentionally losing games, I'm against it. It's acceptable to me when tanking means moving players with an eye to the future or playing the younger players even though they may not give you the best chance to win. There is a fine line between benching your best players and developing your young players but I think it's fairly obvious when you cross that line.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Tanking is one of those words that almost has to be defined every time you use it. We're always in disagreement on this board regarding whether to tank or not to tank and the issue is even more clouded because we don't all mean the same thing when we use that word.

For me, when tanking means intentionally losing games, I'm against it. It's acceptable to me when tanking means moving players with an eye to the future or playing the younger players even though they may not give you the best chance to win. There is a fine line between benching your best players and developing your young players but I think it's fairly obvious when you cross that line.

Steve

Sums it up nicely. Teams being bad don't mean they are tanking. Just ask the Charlotte Bobcats.

 

[carey]

There is a fine line between benching your best players and developing your young players but I think it's fairly obvious when you cross that line.

Like sitting Dragic last year when he was absolutely on a tear and playing his ass off? (Which btw was absolutely the right move. If Utah would have won another game or two we'd have had a 2nd lottery pick.)

 

[AzStevenCal]

Like sitting Dragic last year when he was absolutely on a tear and playing his ass off? (Which btw was absolutely the right move. If Utah would have won another game or two we'd have had a 2nd lottery pick.)

I didn't have a problem with giving Dragic a day off. I would have had a problem if they sat him for an extended period but a day off every now and then is okay by me. I'm also okay if you have a 33 year old center and sit him down for the rest of the season even when there are still a few weeks remaining. But I wouldn't be comfortable doing the same thing with a healthy 25 year old player. Like I said, it's a fine line.

Steve

 

[chickenhead]

To reiterate, the premise of the thread was simply how tanking for Wiggins (or #1, really), and how unpredictable that strategy can be. I don't disagree that there are other players in the draft: in fact I emphasize it.

The Sonics drafted Durant with #2, then Westbrook with #4, then Harden (in Oklahoma City) with #3. In 2007 they might have picked Oden if they had the first pick. In 2008 they might have gotten Derrick Rose; they also could have picked Kevin Love who went 5th. In 2009 they might have drafted Griffin at #1, and they could have drafted Curry who went 7th.

I'm sure everyone would agree they drafted extremely well. By contrast, the guy who went two spots before Westbrook is someone most of us can't wait to see on his fourth NBA team (Beasley).

I guess the bottom line is that I want to see McD go after the guys he truly wants, and not pass on them for a shot at #1. Real luck would be getting #1 anyway. Maybe the Suns are finally due...

 

[slinslin]

Sign Greg Oden to a a deal and trade Gortat for draft picks.

Win win... either Greg Oden works out and we get a steal or he can't stay healthy and lose more games.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Tanking is one of those words that almost has to be defined every time you use it. We're always in disagreement on this board regarding whether to tank or not to tank and the issue is even more clouded because we don't all mean the same thing when we use that word.

For me, when tanking means intentionally losing games, I'm against it. It's acceptable to me when tanking means moving players with an eye to the future or playing the younger players even though they may not give you the best chance to win. There is a fine line between benching your best players and developing your young players but I think it's fairly obvious when you cross that line.

Steve

I don't care what the definition is, I just would like to come up with a generally accepted common definition so that we are all talking about the same thing.

Tanking: Gameplanning for draft picks.
Rebuilding: Gameplanning for the development of young players, with a view beyond the present season.

Are those reasonable definitions?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Sign Greg Oden to a a deal and trade Gortat for draft picks.

Win win... either Greg Oden works out and we get a steal or he can't stay healthy and lose more games.

I am fine with this but where are we going to find a team that:

1. Wants Gortat
2. Has and expiring or cap space to take on his contract.
3. Has picks that are attractive enough for us to make a trade.

Atlanta, if they haven't signed a center in the last few days and I missed it.
Dallas, but they really don't have anything we want.

We would have to be looking at 2015 picks are even farther into the future. Everyone is hoarding picks for this draft.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't care what the definition is, I just would like to come up with a generally accepted common definition so that we are all talking about the same thing.

Tanking: Gameplanning for draft picks.
Rebuilding: Gameplanning for the development of young players, with a view beyond the present season.

Are those reasonable definitions?

I know it happens, but if I think tanking is beyond "gameplanning." I think it is conduct detrimental to the NBA. It should result in punishment if it can ever be proven.

I think "Tanking" should be defined as a team deliberately losing games for draft picks.

 

[Assface]

I know it happens, but if I think tanking is beyond "gameplanning." I think it is conduct detrimental to the NBA. It should result in punishment if it can ever be proven.

I think "Tanking" should be defined as a team deliberately losing games for draft picks.

Players don't deliberately lose games, ever. Management does, which is tanking. Tanking is putting out a team that's so bad they won't win many games no matter how hard the team is playing.

 

[Mainstreet]

Players don't deliberately lose games, ever. Management does, which is tanking. Tanking is putting out a team that's so bad they won't win many games no matter how hard the team is playing.

I was using the word team as in, NBA franchise.

 

[HooverDam]

I am fine with this but where are we going to find a team that:

1. Wants Gortat
2. Has and expiring or cap space to take on his contract.
3. Has picks that are attractive enough for us to make a trade.

Atlanta, if they haven't signed a center in the last few days and I missed it.
Dallas, but they really don't have anything we want.

We would have to be looking at 2015 picks are even farther into the future. Everyone is hoarding picks for this draft.

Dallas would be an ideal fit for Gortat since they lost out on Howard and Kaman. If PHX can get back Marion's expiring and some far off distant future 1st rounder, then fine. It's not much but it means the Suns young guys get to play more (and likely lose), Marion comes home, they free up $$....that's fine.

Dalls is rumored to be in the Monta sweepstakes now, a Gortat-Dirk-Ellis ********* is interesting at least. Though they need to find a lot of complimentary pieces.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Dallas would be an ideal fit for Gortat since they lost out on Howard and Kaman. If PHX can get back Marion's expiring and some far off distant future 1st rounder, then fine. It's not much but it means the Suns young guys get to play more (and likely lose), Marion comes home, they free up $$....that's fine.

Dalls is rumored to be in the Monta sweepstakes now, a Gortat-Dirk-Ellis ********* is interesting at least. Though they need to find a lot of complimentary pieces.

man, i'd be pissed if that's what Dirk was saddled with for the rest of his career. Cuban blew it. he broke up a title winning team for the future and the future blew up in his face. If Dirk wanted it and Cuban was a man of honor, he'd ship Dirk to a contender and start the rebuild.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sign Greg Oden to a a deal and trade Gortat for draft picks.

Win win... either Greg Oden works out and we get a steal or he can't stay healthy and lose more games.

i'm all for this...but there doesn't seem to be any word that a) we're interested or b) he's interested.

you'd think someone with his injury problems would be dying to come to the Suns to see if they could rehab his legs and career.

I mean, Dice was left for dead back in the day before he got to us. Same with Grant Hill and our staff worked freaking miracles with them.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

i'm all for this...but there doesn't seem to be any word that a) we're interested or b) he's interested.

you'd think someone with his injury problems would be dying to come to the Suns to see if they could rehab his legs and career.

I mean, Dice was left for dead back in the day before he got to us. Same with Grant Hill and our staff worked freaking miracles with them.

Jermaine O'Neal, Nash, Shaq...the list goes on. It's shocking any player with chronic injuries wouldn't have Phoenix at the top of the list.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Jermaine O'Neal, Nash, Shaq...the list goes on. It's shocking any player with chronic injuries wouldn't have Phoenix at the top of the list.

I'm surprised someone with deep pockets hasn't thrown a ton of cash at Aaron Nelson to try and poach him. Either he's incredibly loyal or Sarver has already thrown a ton of cash at him to stay.

 

[AfroSuns]

I'm surprised someone with deep pockets hasn't thrown a ton of cash at Aaron Nelson to try and poach him. Either he's incredibly loyal or Sarver has already thrown a ton of cash at him to stay.

Or maybe it is something in Arizona. Who knows maybe the miracle healing is from the "energy vortexes" in Sedona.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Jermaine O'Neal, Nash, Shaq...the list goes on. It's shocking any player with chronic injuries wouldn't have Phoenix at the top of the list.

not just this, but the AFTERMATH usually sees every one of those guys crumble with injuries again.

the only guy I can remember who left and ended up being productive at any level and stay healthy for the rest of the majority of his career was Dice.

 

[Joe Mama]

not just this, but the AFTERMATH usually sees every one of those guys crumble with injuries again.

the only guy I can remember who left and ended up being productive at any level and stay healthy for the rest of the majority of his career was Dice.

yeah, that's the truly amazing thing. You would think these players would learn the techniques they are using to stay healthy while they are here and apply them elsewhere. My guess is that Greg Oden and wants a multi-year contract which we wouldn't be interested in giving him and/or the training staff thinks he is beyond repair.

 

[KloD]

I remember reading just a short time ago that Nelson got a promotion/raise with the Suns. I'm sure he gets other offers, but he seems to love where he is.

About Oden, no thanks unless it's a minimum 1 year deal and surely someone out there will better that. Living in Portland I saw enough to not want the Suns anywhere near him (except the above offer at no risk.)

 

[KloD]

not just this, but the AFTERMATH usually sees every one of those guys crumble with injuries again.

the only guy I can remember who left and ended up being productive at any level and stay healthy for the rest of the majority of his career was Dice.

Off topic: Cheese what dumb bet did you make with Mulli? LOL! As you can see I made one too.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'm surprised someone with deep pockets hasn't thrown a ton of cash at Aaron Nelson to try and poach him. Either he's incredibly loyal or Sarver has already thrown a ton of cash at him to stay.

Outside of money and location, it's one of the few major carrots you can use to lure players. God knows we need all the help we can get at this point.

 

[tobiazz]

I remember reading just a short time ago that Nelson got a promotion/raise with the Suns. I'm sure he gets other offers, but he seems to love where he is.

I heard the raise/promotion part as well. I think the raise was from $0. I believe—at least a few years ago—that the training staff worked for free just to get a bunch of publicity to attract regular clients. I know I would go to Nelson if I had an injury and could afford it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Off topic: Cheese what dumb bet did you make with Mulli? LOL! As you can see I made one too.

Cardinals defense in the lockout season I think.

 

[Mulli]

Cardinals defense in the lockout season I think.

Woot