Target JACKSON

[pokerface]

I'm okay with Jackson, Fox, Isaac. Tatum feels kind of redundant with Warren. Best to stay cool and not risk anything next year with our luck.

This year play to win and grow the core. Don't tank. Booker, Chriss, Bender, Ulis and rookie need time and experience. Chase the playoffs and see what happens.

If we pick up Fox and dump Bled then that seems like a lateral move that will end up in a tanked season.

If we pick up Jackson that might give us a shot at the playoffs. We still might not make it but we'll probably be in the hunt.

 

[leclerc]

Bledsoe should bring something back, it's not like we just swap Fox for him.

Fox + x
Bledsoe + Jackson

I'm not sure Bledsoe is our long term solution at PG.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Fox will be better then Bled in a few years. The x is what we need to know. Top 15 pick this year you do it.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think we should work the phones and try to find a trade partner for Bledsoe, in case we do end up going Fox at #4. It doesn't have to be solidified but at least see what his value it. Call Philly and see if they like Bledsoe for the #3 pick? I know that's wishful thinking but maybe they take that trade. They fill their hole at PG, don't need to worry about the draft, and they have Simmons returning next year as a rookie so their fanbase won't be completely disappointed. The Suns should be proactive and try and get out in front of it rather than picking a PG and being in a position where we can't sell high on Eric, similar to the situation Philly was in last year with Embiid, Okafor, and Noel. They don't have Noel anymore but they have Embiid, Okafor, Saric, and Simmons. If they played Embiid, Saric, and Simmons together in their front court they could get away with playing Bledsoe and McConnell together in their backcourt.

I think Dallas is the team to talk to though, Cuban has stated repeatedly that they don't want to rebuild through the draft. I think they'd take Bledsoe for the #9 pick and we might even be able to get a future pick out of them as well, it would probably be lottery protected but they need a PG and Bledsoe needs a new home before we have to deal with Rich Paul again. Cuban is too impatient to wait on rookies, especially during the twilight of Dirk's career. Bledsoe's age matches up well with Harrison Barnes also so maybe they like that pairing going forward.

 

[elindholm]

I think we should work the phones and try to find a trade partner for Bledsoe, in case we do end up going Fox at #4. It doesn't have to be solidified but at least see what his value it. Call Philly and see if they like Bledsoe for the #3 pick?

So the Suns should trade away Bledsoe because they'd rather have Fox at #4, but the Sixers will prefer Bledsoe over the opportunity to take Fox or someone better than him at #3?

 

[JCSunsfan]

So the Suns should trade away Bledsoe because they'd rather have Fox at #4, but the Sixers will prefer Bledsoe over the opportunity to take Fox or someone better than him at #3?

If we take Fox, we cannot trade away Bledsoe. We have to see if Fox is really an improvement or not. We are not taking Fox though.

Its going to be Jackson, Tatum, or Isaac. I think McD likes all three and will just take the one that is the best in work outs and interviews.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If we take Fox, we cannot trade away Bledsoe. We have to see if Fox is really an improvement or not. We are not taking Fox though.

Its going to be Jackson, Tatum, or Isaac. I think McD likes all three and will just take the one that is the best in work outs and interviews.

How long do you think that will take? 5 years? 3 years? Look at Wall, arguably the best point guard in the NBA, how long did it take him to become better than Bledsoe currently is? Eric is a pretty good player, I wouldn't expect any guard taken in this draft to match his level out of the gate. And when we first got Eric there were fans convinced he'd never be any good, they were wrong. At the same time, there were fans that thought he'd be great, we were wrong. It usually takes a while.

Anyway, I don't think the two issues are connected. You trade Bledsoe because, if you don't, you're going to lose him in 2 seasons at the most. You draft Fox if you think he's the best player available. We aren't drafting him to fill a role or to immediately solve our problems IMO.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Honestly. I am as much concerned about the second round picks as the #4. I really want to move up and take Jordan Bell. He is a difference maker. Not sure how far we would have to move up to do it.

 

[Hoop Head]

So the Suns should trade away Bledsoe because they'd rather have Fox at #4, but the Sixers will prefer Bledsoe over the opportunity to take Fox or someone better than him at #3?

If we like Fox and want to take him, why not see if Philly is interested in Bledsoe? If they have no interest in that trade, that's fine. We might still get Fox at #4, if that's who we're after, but we could potentially get Fox and Jackson at #3 and #4 and not worry about a logjam at PG. Perhaps the Sixers would rather have Bledsoe than whoever is available at #3 for them, we don't know, but even offering that trade might help us see who Philly is leaning towards at #3.

It would be better to clear the potential logjam before we are negotiating from a position of weakness. If we like Fox and want to take him, why not see if Philly is interested in Bledsoe since Fox would be his eventual replacement, that gives us another shot to grab someone else we want.

 

[sunsfan88]

If we take Fox, we cannot trade away Bledsoe. We have to see if Fox is really an improvement or not. We are not taking Fox though.

Its going to be Jackson, Tatum, or Isaac. I think McD likes all three and will just take the one that is the best in work outs and interviews.

Bledsoe isn't in the long term plans of the franchise. He can't be, his age doesn't add up with the rest of the core. Plus he's due for a fat extension next summer too.

Bledsoe suffers one more knee injury and all his trade value is immediately gone. Suns have to trade him before that.

Suns still have Ulis in case Fox does bust.

I like Fox much more than I do Tatum.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Honestly. I am as much concerned about the second round picks as the #4. I really want to move up and take Jordan Bell. He is a difference maker. Not sure how far we would have to move up to do it.

I think he might have played himself out of our reach unless we swing big. Two months ago we probably could have traded both 2's and taken him at the bottom of the first round. But after his postseason play, I think he'll be gone before the mid 20's.

As for the first round, I'm not all that concerned either. I know I've said it a couple of times but every player we're likely to have interest in has the kind of questions that can be resolved by well scripted visits (interviews, workouts etc.). So I'll be fairly comfortable with whoever we select when the time comes, or at least I'll be confident that the front office will have far more relevant information than we currently have.

 

[Hoop Head]

If we take Fox, we cannot trade away Bledsoe. We have to see if Fox is really an improvement or not. We are not taking Fox though.

Its going to be Jackson, Tatum, or Isaac. I think McD likes all three and will just take the one that is the best in work outs and interviews.

If the Suns want Fox, or are targeting him, I think it would be best to give him a chance to start from the beginning. Let him compete with Ulis for the job during summer league, training camp, and preseason. Ulis is too good to be the 3rd string backup and if Fox is the 3rd string backup from the #4 pick then that's a problem. I don't see him busting that bad though. Neither Ulis or Fox is a combo guard though so they can't exactly play together but one of them could see some minutes with Bledsoe as the SG, if they kept him for some reason.

Like @sunsfan88 said, Bledsoe's age doesn't match up with our core, that's 1 big problem. He's an injury risk also and one more knee injury and we're stuck with him through the duration of his contract, which is only 2 years but I don't see him giving us a discount for his injury history and he'll demand a huge contract with Rich Paul as his agent. He's not worth keeping around for another 4-5 years after the 2 on his contract so you might as well try and get value out of him now.

Let the youngsters play their hearts out all year, if they make the playoffs that's great but if they don't they'll be better for having played big minutes for a whole season. I think putting Fox against Ulis could bring out the best in both of them also, sure Ulis was a 2nd round pick but he's got a year of experience already and almost everyone agrees that if Ulis was 6'3 he would be have been a mid 1st round pick, at the latest, last year.

 

[pokerface]

I think Bledsoe's age and knees are really overblown issues. He could play into his 30's at a very good level. He played last season with no knee problems. Plus his past knee issues were not super serious...it wasn't like he had microfracture done.

My main concern is Bleds two remaining years on his contract and being a free agent. I think he might want to stay being the best player on the team and being it's leader. We might be a decent team by then that is a playoff fixture and ready to make noise.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think FOX is gone in the top 5. I am not sure what trading down one spot will net you. The Kings have nothing.

We are probably not communicating here.

I'm talking about using the #32 pick and adding some enticements (second round picks) to move up e.g., to #30. The Suns would not be able to move up far, but a couple of notches might land them a center/PF they like.

I'm not talking about moving up from #4.

However, I would look at options to trade down at #4 say to #6 with the Magic. Of course the Magic would have to make it worthwhile and the Suns would have to like a player that would be there at this slot.

 

[Mainstreet]

Anyway, I don't think the two issues are connected. You trade Bledsoe because, if you don't, you're going to lose him in 2 seasons at the most. You draft Fox if you think he's the best player available. We aren't drafting him to fill a role or to immediately solve our problems IMO.

This is the way to look at it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Why are people so anxious to throw in a Miami pick to move up 1 spot? Didn't we learn anything from losing the Lakers pick. Their pick is only top 7 protected in 2018 and we also have their 2021 pick. If it doesn't convey next year then we'll get it in 2019 with no protection. Assets like those should only be moved unless they help acquire a sure things and moving up 1 spot to draft someone like Jackson isn't that.

If Miami misses the playoffs next year, we get their pick provided it's not in the top 7 or 8, it's protected there. Next year's draft is supposed to be deep and that is more valuable than whatever the difference is between who is the #3 and #4 this year. If we could find someone to take that pick for an extra pick this year, then I'd do it but not just to move 1 spot for a player who could very well be available at #4 anyways.

I'm not seeing a groundswell to do this unless I missed it.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not seeing a groundswell to do this unless I missed it.

We have to trade up. Someone else will trade in front of us like with Kobe. We just have to hope that the Sixers really don't want Jackson. It's going to take a future first rounder, but it's worth it. The NBA depends too much on individual players. The Sixers need to get a quality 2, not a 1. They need a shooter. They trade down, get Monk. But they might take Knight as a look see if we take Okafor off their hands. But it will also take either our pick or the Miami pick next year. I would do our pick with lottery protection. A 15 or later pick is not going to be that consequential to us anyway.

You gather assets for a moment like this. You have to be willing to overpay some to get the player you want. I am fully convinced that in three years we would be gladly willing to trade whatever player we draft at 4 plus whatever player we would pick next year for Jackson.

I would be in the phone with Bryan Colangelo telling him that he must not trade that pick without talking to us first.

I'm just not a Jackson fan, on or off the court. But if you're right and he truly is a star in the making, sure, it's worth a Miami pick to make it happen.

I trade a Miami pick if it guarantees Jackson.

I might trade a Miami pick if I can put some protection on it.

I see this the way your are. I think Jackson is essential to our team development. He gives us what we are lacking... defense and more passing. He could feed the ball to Booker, Chriss, Warren, and even Bledsoe.

I don't want to leave this to chance. I'd rather the suns make moves to determine their own future. Philly would only be dropping one spot to trade with us and still getting a quality pg. They lose virtually nothing by swapping picks unless they really covet Jackson.

At a minimum I'd do a Knight/Okafor swap...I'd hate to throw a first rounder in there but we do have the assets (plus an abundance of young talent already) and I really really want Jackson on this team. I'd give them next year's pick top seven protected.

Plus really...how many more draft picks can we develop anyway? We already have like the youngest team.

If you're not seeing it then you're not paying attention. There are 5 posts on the first page of this thread that I quoted. I stopped at post #16, which was Pokerfaces'.

 

[Mainstreet]

If you're not seeing it then you're not paying attention. That's 5 posts on the first page of this thead, I stopped at Pokerfaces which was #16 in the thread.

I guess I missed it. I'm glad I'm not a part of this mess.

LMAO

 

[pokerface]

I guess I missed it. I'm glad I'm not a part of this mess.

LMAO

Hey!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If you're not seeing it then you're not paying attention. There are 5 posts on the first page of this thread that I quoted. I stopped at post #16, which was Pokerfaces'.

Cmon I said if you put protection on it. HeAvy protection. I love the Miami picks. I'm not for giving them away.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I see a big difference between Jackson and the other two and would trade something to move up one. My initial thought was if Philly wants to take Monk or Fox anyway, we could throw them BK and it would give them another asset. If Jackson is that much better, a pick might be worth it.

But it doesn't sound like the Suns have Jackson rated that much more highly than Isaac and Tatum. So its probably a moot discussion. More evaluations have to take place anyway.

 

[Hoop Head]

I guess I missed it. I'm glad I'm not a part of this mess.

LMAO

Would you part with one of those picks, or a protected 1st of our own, to move up just 1 spot and guarantee Jackson? You're reasonable poster, please tell me you wouldn't.


I almost want to start a poll to see what some people would be willing to give up to guarantee the shot at drafting Jackson but there'd need to be too many options, I also think it would give some of us aneurysms. For everyone that is sold on Jackson being the Suns best possible option in this draft, what would you give up in addition to the #4 pick to get him?

Consider the tradable assets that we have right now, our #4 overall pick (which would need to be included in 99% of deals to move up), our two 2nd round picks (#32 pick & #54 pick), a future 1st of our own (unprotected?), a protected 1st of our own (what sort of protection?), the 2 Miami picks (2018 which is top 7 protected but it's unprotected in 2019 if we don't get it in 2018. The other 1st they owe us is for 2021 and completely unprotected). throw in one or more of our players with the #4 pick?

We can't trade Len or Williams since they're restricted free agents but we can trade Chriss, Bender, Ulis, Derrick Jones Jr, TJ Warren, Knight, Barbosa, Dudley, Chandler, and Bledsoe. Knight is a given, but he doesn't really move the needle either way. but who would you give up in a trade that might entice Philly to move down, or perhaps out if you could offered enough.
I didn't include Booker because anyone who thinks we should include him should be banned. I wouldn't trade him for anyone in this draft or anyone on the Celtics, ca

 

[Hoop Head]

I see a big difference between Jackson and the other two and would trade something to move up one. My initial thought was if Philly wants to take Monk or Fox anyway, we could throw them BK and it would give them another asset. If Jackson is that much better, a pick might be worth it.

But it doesn't sound like the Suns have Jackson rated that much more highly than Isaac and Tatum. So its probably a moot discussion. More evaluations have to take place anyway.

I'd gladly throw in Knight to try and swap with Philly, I'd throw in both 2nd round picks also, but no more than that. No future picks and none of our players except Derrick Jones Jr or Dudley. I don't think DJJ will ever be more than a 4th wing in the rotation, so why not include him and I'm not a fan of Dudley's contract but it's not bad enough to try and dump it elsewhere.I don't see how he gets minutes next season with Chriss and Bender healthy Booker and Warren covering the wings with Barbosa and DJJ backing up SG and SF plus whoever our rookie is. and

I think we might be able to get a later 1st round pick for him, from someone, this year. I'm not sure if Philly would take the #4 and Knight ofr the #3, no matter who they have slotted there.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If you're not seeing it then you're not paying attention. There are 5 posts on the first page of this thread that I quoted. I stopped at post #16, which was Pokerfaces'.

You put mine in there too and I've already said I'm against it. I just acknowledged that if we were convinced he was a star in the making, it's worth throwing in another pick if necessary.

 

[Mainstreet]

Would you part with one of those picks, or a protected 1st of our own, to move up just 1 spot and guarantee Jackson? You're reasonable poster, please tell me you wouldn't.

I'm not a proponent of moving up in the draft from the #4 position. I've made this clear.

However, I will add a caveat. If Jackson worked out for the Suns and they absolutely believe he is going to be a star, then one has to consider it. I'm not sold that Jackson is a better player than someone who is drafted a couple of picks later.

Personally I like to have the draft come to the Suns at #4 and even look at trade-down options because I think the draft is deep even at #6 where the Magic may want to move up to draft Fox.