The 2006-07 Los Angeles Lakers thread
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Beautiful.
Renz
An Army of One
Lakers 111 at Hornets 105
Kobe becomes the 2nd player in history to score at least 50 in 4 straight games. The Lakers have won all four.
:notworthy
Kobe becomes the 2nd player in history to score at least 50 in 4 straight games. The Lakers have won all four.
:notworthy
He's scary good.
Our defense sucks...
For the time being. Hopefully by playoff time, Luke and Lamar will be fully healed, and the gang will be dangerous again.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
I can hear the lips of Vic the Brick smack on Kobes tuckus all the way from Phoenix
For once, VTB's lunacy is warranted.
Kobe "only" gets 43. Lakers win in a squeaker where they blew a 19 point lead. Lamar damn near had 20 and 20. Finished with 24 and 19.
5-0 win streak with a Memphis rematch coming up...I sure hope we are done losing to sorry teams...bad teams have beat us too often this year.
5-0 win streak with a Memphis rematch coming up...I sure hope we are done losing to sorry teams...bad teams have beat us too often this year.
From espn.com;
Putting Kobe in perspective
By Jemele Hill
Page 2
Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan.
Not more successful.
Hasn't had a bigger economic impact.
Hasn't won more MVPs.
Hasn't won more titles.
But he's a better player.
Kobe can do everything Michael did, and even a few things Michael couldn't do.
Kobe is just as good a defender. His killer instinct is just as pronounced. He can shoot, finish and explode. And just like Jordan, the more he's pissed off, the more unstoppable he is.
At the very least, Kobe's scoring spree over the last week should put to rest any lingering doubts that he's the best player in the NBA. Yes, better than Steve Nash, who is the best point guard, but not the lethal force that Kobe is. Yes, better than Dwyane Wade, who is certainly closer to the Kobe-Jordan level than LeBron James, but D-Wade's game is not as polished as Kobe's.
Kobe's streak of four straight 50-points-plus games is something none of those players can do, and it's something that hasn't been done since Wilt Chamberlain, who had an NBA-record seven straight 50-point games. Truthfully, Kobe should have tacked another 50 on Golden State on Sunday night.
Of course, the idea that Kobe is better than Jordan -- or even the best player in this league -- is as repugnant to some folks as a rectal exam. Even though Kobe has proven himself under pressure countless times, he gets the A-Rod treatment.
Kobe can't please anyone. And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time.
In fact, you could argue that Jordan was even worse. Far as we know, Kobe hasn't jacked up any of his teammates the way Jordan punched out Steve Kerr and Will Perdue at practice.
Kobe will never be forgiven for Shaq's departure, but you're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.
The best-player argument shouldn't be determined by personal dislike. But if you want to take it there, fine. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, we would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
Besides a different level of media scrutiny, there was definitely a difference in the level of competition during Jordan's heyday compared to now.
Yesterday's NBA player certainly was more fundamentally sound, but there's no question that today's player is bigger, stronger and faster. When Jordan played, he was a singular force that could not be equaled. Jordan was guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars, who were fine players but weren't nearly as skilled or physically imposing as LeBron, D-Wade, Tracy McGrady or even Vince Carter.
The NBA is tougher now.
Kobe, like Michael, is surrounded with mediocre to below-average talent, and Phoenix, Dallas and San Antonio are all better than the Utah, Portland and the Charles Barkley-led Phoenix team that Michael met in the NBA Finals.
Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing will be among the best centers ever, but none of them affected the league the way Shaq and Tim Duncan have. There are two two-time MVPs in Kobe's own conference (Duncan, Nash), which is a problem Jordan never faced during his championship runs. Seven-footers weren't launching 3s back then. Magic Johnson and the Lakers were on a downward spiral, and the Pistons were on their last legs. It was Michael and everyone else. That's not the case for Kobe.
The shame of it is that Kobe might finish his career without a MVP, even though his ability can be compared only to that of Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain. All this time we've been looking for a player who is better than Jordan, but most of us can't get beyond whether we like or dislike Kobe as a person to recognize his contributions to the game.
Ultimately the MVP award will go to either Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, who are deserving this season, but neither are as good as Kobe. Dallas and Phoenix are strong enough to make the playoffs without their stars. The Lakers, however, are a lottery team without Kobe.
Now that's a valuable player.
Jemele Hill, a Page 2 columnist and writer for ESPN The Magazine, can be reached at [email protected].
Putting Kobe in perspective
By Jemele Hill
Page 2
Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan.
Not more successful.
Hasn't had a bigger economic impact.
Hasn't won more MVPs.
Hasn't won more titles.
But he's a better player.
Kobe can do everything Michael did, and even a few things Michael couldn't do.
Kobe is just as good a defender. His killer instinct is just as pronounced. He can shoot, finish and explode. And just like Jordan, the more he's pissed off, the more unstoppable he is.
At the very least, Kobe's scoring spree over the last week should put to rest any lingering doubts that he's the best player in the NBA. Yes, better than Steve Nash, who is the best point guard, but not the lethal force that Kobe is. Yes, better than Dwyane Wade, who is certainly closer to the Kobe-Jordan level than LeBron James, but D-Wade's game is not as polished as Kobe's.
Kobe's streak of four straight 50-points-plus games is something none of those players can do, and it's something that hasn't been done since Wilt Chamberlain, who had an NBA-record seven straight 50-point games. Truthfully, Kobe should have tacked another 50 on Golden State on Sunday night.
Of course, the idea that Kobe is better than Jordan -- or even the best player in this league -- is as repugnant to some folks as a rectal exam. Even though Kobe has proven himself under pressure countless times, he gets the A-Rod treatment.
Kobe can't please anyone. And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time.
In fact, you could argue that Jordan was even worse. Far as we know, Kobe hasn't jacked up any of his teammates the way Jordan punched out Steve Kerr and Will Perdue at practice.
Kobe will never be forgiven for Shaq's departure, but you're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.
The best-player argument shouldn't be determined by personal dislike. But if you want to take it there, fine. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, we would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
Besides a different level of media scrutiny, there was definitely a difference in the level of competition during Jordan's heyday compared to now.
Yesterday's NBA player certainly was more fundamentally sound, but there's no question that today's player is bigger, stronger and faster. When Jordan played, he was a singular force that could not be equaled. Jordan was guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars, who were fine players but weren't nearly as skilled or physically imposing as LeBron, D-Wade, Tracy McGrady or even Vince Carter.
The NBA is tougher now.
Kobe, like Michael, is surrounded with mediocre to below-average talent, and Phoenix, Dallas and San Antonio are all better than the Utah, Portland and the Charles Barkley-led Phoenix team that Michael met in the NBA Finals.
Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing will be among the best centers ever, but none of them affected the league the way Shaq and Tim Duncan have. There are two two-time MVPs in Kobe's own conference (Duncan, Nash), which is a problem Jordan never faced during his championship runs. Seven-footers weren't launching 3s back then. Magic Johnson and the Lakers were on a downward spiral, and the Pistons were on their last legs. It was Michael and everyone else. That's not the case for Kobe.
The shame of it is that Kobe might finish his career without a MVP, even though his ability can be compared only to that of Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain. All this time we've been looking for a player who is better than Jordan, but most of us can't get beyond whether we like or dislike Kobe as a person to recognize his contributions to the game.
Ultimately the MVP award will go to either Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, who are deserving this season, but neither are as good as Kobe. Dallas and Phoenix are strong enough to make the playoffs without their stars. The Lakers, however, are a lottery team without Kobe.
Now that's a valuable player.
Jemele Hill, a Page 2 columnist and writer for ESPN The Magazine, can be reached at [email protected].
Only 43 points for Bryant
By Ric Bucher
ESPN The Magazine
If there's such a thing as a dissatisfying 43-point performance, Kobe Bryant delivered it Sunday night against the Golden State Warriors.
Yeah, he still hit an array of momentum-swinging shots, and yeah, the Los Angles Lakers still won, 115-113, and, yeah, it was a performance that by almost any other player would be considered pretty damn good.
But let's be honest. Bryant isn't judged the same as other players. If personality didn't color judgment, if effort and understanding of the game could be quantified in a boxscore, there would not be any confusion over who the game's best player is.
That wasn't his fault until he proved over the last 10 days that he could overcome all that, could force the most anti-Kobe soul to concede that there's no one who can do what he can. So I went into watching the game Sunday night thinking, "OK, Mister Supernova, bring it home." Thrust yourself into MVP discussion that appears to be strictly a two-man race between The German and The Canadian.
Sure, I noticed the weird listlessness of Lamar Odom on D and the careless ballhandling of Smush Parker and the general ambivalence of Kwame Brown that makes it astounding that the Lakers are six games over .500. I also, by my count, had Kobe scoring on only two layups, both in the first quarter. Why that's practically (pre-All-Star-break) LeBron-like. I expected so much more. I had seen, in recent days, so much more. That's why, when it appeared there might be a chance for overtime against Golden State, thereby opening the door for Bryant to extend his streak of 50-point scoring games to five, I hoped not. The streak ended, deservedly, well short of Wilt Chamberlain's record of seven straight.
Granted, I saw him get the 50 vs. the Timberwolves live and marvelled at how natural the points seemed to come. There were times he took contested long-range jumpers that Sunday afternoon against Minnesota that would have been considered questionable except they were falling and drawing only head-shaking admiration from his teammates. He also attacked the rim at every opportunity, producing 14 free throws and what seemed like a dozen fouls.
This Sunday, though, the long-range shots were not falling. He started off in rarified air, making his first four shots for nine points in barely more than two minutes. He had 17 in the first quarter. And yet it was clear by halftime he was not dialed in the way he had been.
Credit the Warriors for some of that. They seemed particularly determined to make sure that Bryant's run of 65-, 50-, 60- and 50-point games ended with them and an argument could be made that Bryant merely took what they gave him, an array of long-range shots that he had been making with remarkable efficiency. Forget arguments. I wanted the Bryant who took what he wanted, the opposition be damned. I don't care that through much of the third quarter the Warriors doubled him without the ball or hedged to prevent him from even getting the ball at the pinch-post with his back to the basket. Or that the attention he drew played a big part in the Warriors being completely out of position to attack the boards, leading to a 63-33 advantage for the Lakers.
Or that he accepted the double teams and found open teammates, that he made two key defensive plays on Al Harrington and Baron Davis in the fourth quarter, that he dove to the floor to tie up a loose ball and had nine rebounds.
He also, in very un-supernova-like fashion, missed two free throws in the final 30 seconds and had seven turnovers. He went 4 of 11 from three-point range.
All in all, not bad. But by the new Kobe measuring stick, a bit on the short side.
Ric Bucher covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine.
By Ric Bucher
ESPN The Magazine
If there's such a thing as a dissatisfying 43-point performance, Kobe Bryant delivered it Sunday night against the Golden State Warriors.
Yeah, he still hit an array of momentum-swinging shots, and yeah, the Los Angles Lakers still won, 115-113, and, yeah, it was a performance that by almost any other player would be considered pretty damn good.
But let's be honest. Bryant isn't judged the same as other players. If personality didn't color judgment, if effort and understanding of the game could be quantified in a boxscore, there would not be any confusion over who the game's best player is.
That wasn't his fault until he proved over the last 10 days that he could overcome all that, could force the most anti-Kobe soul to concede that there's no one who can do what he can. So I went into watching the game Sunday night thinking, "OK, Mister Supernova, bring it home." Thrust yourself into MVP discussion that appears to be strictly a two-man race between The German and The Canadian.
Sure, I noticed the weird listlessness of Lamar Odom on D and the careless ballhandling of Smush Parker and the general ambivalence of Kwame Brown that makes it astounding that the Lakers are six games over .500. I also, by my count, had Kobe scoring on only two layups, both in the first quarter. Why that's practically (pre-All-Star-break) LeBron-like. I expected so much more. I had seen, in recent days, so much more. That's why, when it appeared there might be a chance for overtime against Golden State, thereby opening the door for Bryant to extend his streak of 50-point scoring games to five, I hoped not. The streak ended, deservedly, well short of Wilt Chamberlain's record of seven straight.
Granted, I saw him get the 50 vs. the Timberwolves live and marvelled at how natural the points seemed to come. There were times he took contested long-range jumpers that Sunday afternoon against Minnesota that would have been considered questionable except they were falling and drawing only head-shaking admiration from his teammates. He also attacked the rim at every opportunity, producing 14 free throws and what seemed like a dozen fouls.
This Sunday, though, the long-range shots were not falling. He started off in rarified air, making his first four shots for nine points in barely more than two minutes. He had 17 in the first quarter. And yet it was clear by halftime he was not dialed in the way he had been.
Credit the Warriors for some of that. They seemed particularly determined to make sure that Bryant's run of 65-, 50-, 60- and 50-point games ended with them and an argument could be made that Bryant merely took what they gave him, an array of long-range shots that he had been making with remarkable efficiency. Forget arguments. I wanted the Bryant who took what he wanted, the opposition be damned. I don't care that through much of the third quarter the Warriors doubled him without the ball or hedged to prevent him from even getting the ball at the pinch-post with his back to the basket. Or that the attention he drew played a big part in the Warriors being completely out of position to attack the boards, leading to a 63-33 advantage for the Lakers.
Or that he accepted the double teams and found open teammates, that he made two key defensive plays on Al Harrington and Baron Davis in the fourth quarter, that he dove to the floor to tie up a loose ball and had nine rebounds.
He also, in very un-supernova-like fashion, missed two free throws in the final 30 seconds and had seven turnovers. He went 4 of 11 from three-point range.
All in all, not bad. But by the new Kobe measuring stick, a bit on the short side.
Ric Bucher covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine.
That Bucher article cracks me up. Kobe has set the bar too high for himself.
I actually read the whole article, and as much as I loathe Bryant, from an objective standpoint, I think the article is valid. I was never fond of Jordan, either, so it really doesn't matter to me.
I quit reading right there...
Everyone hated Jordan too. I remember...that's when I used to like him. Then he won titles and became the in thing and I didn't like him any longer.
Your response is exactly the response people would have had to an article that said "Jordan is better than Magic" or "Jordan is better than Bird."
Jordan's career is really sugarcoated and this article is an interesting read. And before you posted it, the article described people who act the way you do...scoffing at the concept, the idea being repugnant. It looks like the article hit it right on the head.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Michael Jordan changed the league, Kobe has not. Nobody is denying Kobe's talent, but there can be no denial that Jordan's presence in the league was MUCH more important than Kobe's.
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give me a break here D-Dogg - there's no doubt in my mind, that right now, Kobe is the best basketball player in the game (though not the most valuable) but it's almost as if people are now trying to denigrate Jordan's career to make Kobe look his equal, or even more ridiculous, BETTER. Anyone remember Jordan just single-handedly taking that awful Chicago team with nothing on it and beating a higher seed Cavs team (when Pip and Grant were pretty much worthless rookies) and then a year later, as a #6 seed beating a 56 win Cavs #3 seed and then beating a number #2 Knicks team and then giving the Pistons a run for their money in the Eastern Conference Finals losing 4-2? When Kobe actually accomplishes something like that, maybe we can talk about him (and it's probably just a matter of time, as I think either the Spurs or the Suns would MUCH rather see Denver than the Lakes this year) in the same breath as Jordan but until then, he's a monumentally gifted scorer that hasn't risen to the level of leader and carrier of men that Jordan was and that really is all that separates the two from each other (well, that and Kobe isn't as explosive as Jordan was due to wear and tear and knee surgeries that has taken away a level of explosiveness, nor is he the shooter as a 28 year Jordan was consistently above 50%, which is just ridiculous.)
Bottom line - Kobe is the closest thing the NBA has to Jordan right now, but that doesn't mean he's as good or better... and thank God the Lakers can't figure out how to put a better team around him.
I dont know too many people that hated Jordan before or after him winning the titles.. If they hated Jordan for anything it was because he beat everyones team.. That aint why people hate Kobe.. You cant compare the two..
Jordan was labeled a selfish ballhog until he won titles. People hated on him. A lot. Just a scorer. Will never win titles. Etc.
(and yeah, people hate Kobe because he beats them...that's the core of it).
give me a break here D-Dogg - there's no doubt in my mind, that right now, Kobe is the best basketball player in the game (though not the most valuable) but it's almost as if people are now trying to denigrate Jordan's career to make Kobe look his equal, or even more ridiculous, BETTER. Anyone remember Jordan just single-handedly taking that awful Chicago team with nothing on it and beating a higher seed Cavs team (when Pip and Grant were pretty much worthless rookies) and then a year later, as a #6 seed beating a 56 win Cavs #3 seed and then beating a number #2 Knicks team and then giving the Pistons a run for their money in the Eastern Conference Finals losing 4-2? When Kobe actually accomplishes something like that, maybe we can talk about him (and it's probably just a matter of time, as I think either the Spurs or the Suns would MUCH rather see Denver than the Lakes this year) in the same breath as Jordan but until then, he's a monumentally gifted scorer that hasn't risen to the level of leader and carrier of men that Jordan was and that really is all that separates the two from each other (well, that and Kobe isn't as explosive as Jordan was due to wear and tear and knee surgeries that has taken away a level of explosiveness, nor is he the shooter as a 28 year Jordan was consistently above 50%, which is just ridiculous.)
Bottom line - Kobe is the closest thing the NBA has to Jordan right now, but that doesn't mean he's as good or better... and thank God the Lakers can't figure out how to put a better team around him.
I don't disagree with what you've written, but make no mistake about it...Jordan was hated on before he won titles, and then after he won them he was deified. His persona has been sugarcoated (not really his career, as it is what it was) a great deal. He never was scrutinized to any degree that Kobe is...his every move questioned. He knocked Kerr the F out, was not a good teammate and had serious gambling and womanizing issues...if that were Kobe can you even imagine how he'd be raked over the coals? Everything Bryant does is under a microscope and it's kind of funny, in a way.
I don't disrespect Jordan, but I also don't think it's fair that you can't even mention Kobe near his name lest some people fall down on the comparison (which is valid since Kobe isn't really comparable to his contemporaries) because Jordan has been cleansed by the media and memory. Imagine how pristine Mike would be if he had never made that comeback with the Wizards?!
It's a pretty interesting article, but some people won't read it because it dares to mention Kobe and Mike in the same breath...that reaction is silly.
jenna2891
potential get-away driver: go!
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http://www.rawbw.com/~deano/hoopla/chic3.html
Some guy's archive from back in 88...thought it interesting...
If Kobe's lucky, he will get some consistent help around him on this team (especially defensively) and the second half of his career could look like the 28-onward version of Mike's. Time will tell, but that paragraph above you could replace Jordan with Kobe and think it was written this week.
Some guy's archive from back in 88...thought it interesting...
If Kobe's lucky, he will get some consistent help around him on this team (especially defensively) and the second half of his career could look like the 28-onward version of Mike's. Time will tell, but that paragraph above you could replace Jordan with Kobe and think it was written this week.
I know...freaking weird.
Difference is.. When people labeled Jordan that, he went out and proved them wrong.. Cant play defense? Next year went out and won defensive player of the year etc etc.. Kobe dont do that.. And Kobe is nowhere near the leader or competitor Jordan was.. If Kobe was that big of a competitor, he would become a better leader..
And no, I dont hate Kobe for beating my Suns cuz he rarely does (without Shaq
)Nope, Kobe is not the next coming of Jordan.. He has a long way to go other than hoisting up 81 points or back to back to back 50 point games..
Impressive
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