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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think your point is fair enough but the Suns would have to throw some draft picks in there as well. I'm not sure it is worth the headache.
I’m not sure they would. They are taking the terrible contract and maybe the least proven of the three outgoing lakers. And they are facilitating a trade the other two want to do. You get a premium for facilitating a trade for others.
 

Mainstreet

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I’m not sure they would. They are taking the terrible contract and maybe the least proven of the three outgoing lakers. And they are facilitating a trade the other two want to do. You get a premium for facilitating a trade for others.

Lonzo may become a star and he is the 2nd pick in last year's draft. I guess I can't see the Lakers giving him up so easily. From the Suns standpoint, it would be steal if no draft picks were included.
 

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Apparently Indiana has a deal in place for Kawhi, according to Woj. Not sure of the details but that would be a good team if they hold onto Oladipo.

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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Lonzo may become a star and he is the 2nd pick in last year's draft. I guess I can't see the Lakers giving him up so easily. From the Suns standpoint, it would be steal if no draft picks were included.
They might not have much of a choice if they want to create the super team
 

Folster

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Apparently Indiana has a deal in place for Kawhi, according to Woj. Not sure of the details but that would be a good team if they hold onto Oladipo.

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That tweet was surprisingly from the real Woj, but from 2011.
 

Cheesebeef

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Not trolling. I just have too much draft and free agency on the brain. I understand the Ball sentiment, but if you divorce him from the circus he has a pretty unique skill set that would really help our young players. If he manages to fix his shot, he'll be a solid player.

Not saying I would do it, but Bright Side or Valley of the Suns posted the trade on twitter, so I gave it some thought.

dude... if you don't live in LA, you really don't understand the Ball sentiment. I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole and this is coming from someone who LOOOOOOOOOVED him and wanted him desperately on the Suns during last year's lotto.
 

AzStevenCal

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dude... if you don't live in LA, you really don't understand the Ball sentiment. I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole and this is coming from someone who LOOOOOOOOOVED him and wanted him desperately on the Suns during last year's lotto.

I think it's easy and often unfair to look back on mistakes made and stand in judgement of them. But Lavar is like Dracula, if you invite him in you deserve the blood-sucking miserable days coming your way.
 

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The NBA needs to get rid of the max contract. Keep the cap but if a team wants to pay 90% of their cap on one player then let them. It's a way to help limit the superteams which aren't good for the long term health of the league.
 

GatorAZ

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The NBA needs to get rid of the max contract. Keep the cap but if a team wants to pay 90% of their cap on one player then let them. It's a way to help limit the superteams which aren't good for the long term health of the league.

It’s horrible but the players got what they wanted.
 

AzStevenCal

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The NBA needs to get rid of the max contract. Keep the cap but if a team wants to pay 90% of their cap on one player then let them. It's a way to help limit the superteams which aren't good for the long term health of the league.

I don't see how that's a good thing in any way.
 

Azlen

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I don't see how that's a good thing in any way.

Why shouldn't the top players get paid what they're worth? LeBron is severely underpaid because of it. Like I said you can keep the cap, but why restrict what percentage of the cap an individual player can get? Also makes the supeteam concept a lot harder to pull off. There are also way too many players getting the max. When you artificially restrict what the top players can get, you end up paying second tier players the same amount of money and that's a bit ridiculous.
 

AzStevenCal

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Why shouldn't the top players get paid what they're worth? LeBron is severely underpaid because of it. Like I said you can keep the cap, but why restrict what percentage of the cap an individual player can get? Also makes the supeteam concept a lot harder to pull off. There are also way too many players getting the max. When you artificially restrict what the top players can get, you end up paying second tier players the same amount of money and that's a bit ridiculous.

The super-team problem is an anomaly and it will go away in a few years. There will always be loaded teams but adding Durant to an already loaded roster could have only occurred during that season. It's not an ongoing problem.

And I don't see Lebron being underpaid. We always hear how he has no talent around him but he's been on one of the highest payrolled teams each year since he first went to Miami. If he'd been making 90% of the cap (as you mentioned), he'd have spent his career on bad teams and he wouldn't be worth a billion plus in endorsements.
 

Azlen

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It’s horrible but the players got what they wanted.

That was actually something the owners pushed for and got. The players agreed to it because there are a lot more second and third tier guys who would be making a lot more money than first tier guys who were getting paid less.

This article is a few years old but it does a good job explaining how it somewhat backfired on the owners.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/max-money-explained-for-every-anthony-davis-theres-a-greg-monroe/

The max contract -- and especially the super-max, starting at 30 percent of the salary cap for high achievers -- was conceived for players exactly like [Anthony] Davis.

The problem is, outside the rarified air where Davis and other top-shelf superstars live, the NBA's max contract has become so common and overused as to completely lose its value and meaning. And critics say it's actually had the opposite effect than what owners intended when they pushed for it during the ugly 1998-99 lockout that cost owners and players hundreds of millions and canceled the All-Star Game.

"When you place an artificial bottleneck, you're going to create disequilibrium," agent David Falk, who represented the NBA's first $30 million-a-year player, Michael Jordan, told CBSSports.com.

"By saving $20 million on the best five players, you're probably paying 30 guys an extra $10 million each. If the owners realized that by saving $100 million it would cost them $300 million, do you think they would've done it?"
 

AzStevenCal

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That was actually something the owners pushed for and got. The players agreed to it because there are a lot more second and third tier guys who would be making a lot more money than first tier guys who were getting paid less.

This article is a few years old but it does a good job explaining how it somewhat backfired on the owners.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/max-money-explained-for-every-anthony-davis-theres-a-greg-monroe/

The max contract -- and especially the super-max, starting at 30 percent of the salary cap for high achievers -- was conceived for players exactly like [Anthony] Davis.

The problem is, outside the rarified air where Davis and other top-shelf superstars live, the NBA's max contract has become so common and overused as to completely lose its value and meaning. And critics say it's actually had the opposite effect than what owners intended when they pushed for it during the ugly 1998-99 lockout that cost owners and players hundreds of millions and canceled the All-Star Game.

"When you place an artificial bottleneck, you're going to create disequilibrium," agent David Falk, who represented the NBA's first $30 million-a-year player, Michael Jordan, told CBSSports.com.

"By saving $20 million on the best five players, you're probably paying 30 guys an extra $10 million each. If the owners realized that by saving $100 million it would cost them $300 million, do you think they would've done it?"

IMO That's just spin by an agent, it doesn't make it gospel. Adding the Super Max is the biggest mistake they made but without the effort of agents such as David Falk and players such as Lebron and Chris Paul, it would never have happened.
 

Azlen

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IMO That's just spin by an agent, it doesn't make it gospel. Adding the Super Max is the biggest mistake they made but without the effort of agents such as David Falk and players such as Lebron and Chris Paul, it would never have happened.

You think players like Greg Munroe and Enes Kanter getting max contracts is agent spin? By not paying the top guys what they are worth, you end up with too many other players getting more than they are worth while making it possible for some true max players to all join one team without costing themselves that much. If LeBron wants to leave Cleveland this off season then let the teams competing for him set his worth. Every one of their contracts is all going to look the same money wise. Money probably wouldn't be his primary factor but it shouldn't be a complete non-factor either.
 

AzStevenCal

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You think players like Greg Munroe and Enes Kanter getting max contracts is agent spin? By not paying the top guys what they are worth, you end up with too many other players getting more than they are worth while making it possible for some true max players to all join one team without costing themselves that much. If LeBron wants to leave Cleveland this off season then let the teams competing for him set his worth. Every one of their contracts is all going to look the same money wise. Money probably wouldn't be his primary factor but it shouldn't be a complete non-factor either.

No, I don't. But I don't think that David Falk's explanation is accurate, it's self serving.
 

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That tweet was surprisingly from the real Woj, but from 2011.


I saw someone else retweet it and didn't look at the date. Don't know how I overlooked that. That could have been the deal that brought Leonard to San Antonio originally.
 

Hoop Head

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IMO That's just spin by an agent, it doesn't make it gospel. Adding the Super Max is the biggest mistake they made but without the effort of agents such as David Falk and players such as Lebron and Chris Paul, it would never have happened.

I think the super max is one of the better things added. It has actual qualifiers to it so players can't just demand it because they think they deserve it. They need to prove they earned it and only a select few do. It keeps players like Bledsoe from demanding top dollar because he hasn't received the accolades required to get paid top dollar. I know it can backfire, like John Wall or Blake Griffin, but they had to establish it first. Now they can adjust it, making it harder to achieve, so those sorts of players don't qualify in the future and it only goes to true franchise players like Lebron, Leonard, Curry.
 

AzStevenCal

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I think the super max is one of the better things added... and it only goes to true franchise players like Lebron, Leonard, Curry.

Well, there's the sense that if you qualify technically for the supermax, then you've actually "earned" it. And that's going to be an issue in the future with players such as Draymond Green. But I believe the real problem is that it makes it easier for lesser stars to get a max or near max deal when that typically was reserved for a small number of impact players. From what I've heard on the NBA shows, GMs around the league do not consider the supermax to be a workable model within the cap.
 

Mainstreet

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They might not have much of a choice if they want to create the super team

Let the Lakers have their band of mercenaries. I don't mind looking at spinoff players like Zubac and Randle. I'd even consider Ball if the only major investment is expiring contracts. If it doesn't work out he can always be traded again.
 

AzStevenCal

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I'd even consider Ball if the only major investment is expiring contracts. If it doesn't work out he can always be traded again.

If it doesn't work out it will likely be due to the presence of Lavar. And if that's the case, "can always be traded again" becomes problematic.
 
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