The 2017-2018 Around the NBA thread

[leclerc]

you don't never see me saying

I want to use that in a sentence. I'll try guys!

 

[leclerc]

Oh Archie... you feel like you're not getting a fair shake yet you still can't shoot, pass or defend... the same thing that always plagued you.

But hey, if you want someone, once in a blue moon, to put up a really inefficient 20 points via ball hogging and a series or reckless drives... he's the man to call!

Get in the gym and work on shooting and defense. You're not a complete player.

 

[Phrazbit]

I want to use that in a sentence. I'll try guys!

I'm guessing LaVar's English teacher is bursting into flames somewhere.

 

[Finito]

Yeah it is but I'm surprised Dumas and Oliver Miller haven't been mentioned yet.

Those two were nowhere close to being the players Leonard and Howard are/were

 

[SunsFanFirst]

Barkley ruined Dumas, Miller, and Ceballos. I really think he was a bad influence on them.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Barkley ruined Dumas, Miller, and Ceballos. I really think he was a bad influence on them.

Dumas had a known drug problem and Miller had a well established weight issue before they ever met Charles so what are you basing your comment on. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just not something I've heard and it doesn't appear to match up with history. I don't doubt that Barkley was a bad influence on his younger teammates but I'm not so sure he ruined them.

 

[GatorAZ]

Maybe it was the Egg McMuffins rolled up in hot cakes and drenched in butter/syrup that gave them the wrong idea.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...d-to-eat-mcdonalds-on-bike-at-sixers-practice

 

[BC867]

SPEAKING OF AROUND THE NBA . . .

I was curious about where the Phoenix Metro area ranks in population compared to all of the other teams in the NBA. I had made the comment that my goal for the Suns next step is to move into the upper half for wins and losses next season.

Well, among all 30 metropolitan areas represented by NBA teams, the Valley of the Sun ranks 14th in population. 'Happy to see that market size fits my goal. Fourteen is in the top half.

The METRO figure ranks all NBA metro areas in population (whether they have an NBA team or not). The RANK figure ranks all 30 teams in their metro population -- 1-30.

The five boroughs of New York City are #1 in population, so I ranked the Knicks first and Nets second (for obvious reasons). The same with L.A. which ranks second in population, so I ranked the Lakers third and Clippers fourth. The Valley of the Suns was pushed back a spot with the inclusion of Toronto.

Of course, led by Booker and Ayton, my goal for the Suns after next season is to move steadily above the middle.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Hoop Head]

Jimmy Butler has apparently decline a huge extension, somewhere around 4 years and $110 million to stay with the Timberwolves. Not often do guys turn down that sort of money. If they do, it's usually to get more but Butler is upset with the Timberwolves management and his teammates and wants out.

There's no place for him on the Suns, IMO, so not a target to look out for but if he does get traded away it may make someone else available. I'd like to see the Suns try to acquire Tyus Jones from the Timberwolves but I'm not sure what their asking price would be. Since they resigned Derrick Rose, he could be expendable since he'll be their 3rd PG in the rotation behind Rose and Teague.

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[Phrazbit]

Jimmy Butler has apparently decline a huge extension, somewhere around 4 years and $110 million to stay with the Timberwolves. Not often do guys turn down that sort of money. If they do, it's usually to get more but Butler is upset with the Timberwolves management and his teammates and wants out.

There's no place for him on the Suns, IMO, so not a target to look out for but if he does get traded away it may make someone else available. I'd like to see the Suns try to acquire Tyus Jones from the Timberwolves but I'm not sure what their asking price would be. Since they resigned Derrick Rose, he could be expendable since he'll be their 3rd PG in the rotation behind Rose and Teague.

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I really doubt they're counting on Rose.

 

[Sunburn]

Jimmy Butler has apparently decline a huge extension, somewhere around 4 years and $110 million to stay with the Timberwolves. Not often do guys turn down that sort of money. If they do, it's usually to get more but Butler is upset with the Timberwolves management and his teammates and wants out.

There's no place for him on the Suns, IMO, so not a target to look out for but if he does get traded away it may make someone else available. I'd like to see the Suns try to acquire Tyus Jones from the Timberwolves but I'm not sure what their asking price would be. Since they resigned Derrick Rose, he could be expendable since he'll be their 3rd PG in the rotation behind Rose and Teague.

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This is less than a max level extension though, correct?

 

[Phrazbit]

This is less than a max level extension though, correct?

Pretty sure it's like 15-20 million less.

So... they already know he's not happy with the situation because he thinks his teammates don't take the game seriously, then the Wolves come to him with a contract worth less than he'd get if he were on the open market.

Brilliant.

 

[Hoop Head]

Butler isn't worth a max deal at this point though. I can see the case for a team trying to pry him away from Minnesota and offering more but he's worth the rookie max sort of deal at most, which is 25% of the cap. He's eligible for 30% now since he's been in the league X number of years though but he's just not worth the inflated max. I don't blame them for offering him a deal lower than the max but they had to have known he wasn't happy with the team already so offering him a lesser deal could have been the final straw for him.

 

[Hoop Head]

I really doubt they're counting on Rose.

Counting on him as a backup and counting on him as a starter is much different, IMO. If anyone can get Rose to play better than he has it's Thibs and he's similar to Mike D'Antonio as far as overplaying his starters. So the amount they need Rose off the bench isn't that much. We'll see what happens but they're going to need to pay Jones at the end of the season or let him walk. They might try to get something in return before it comes to that.

 

[Phrazbit]

Butler isn't worth a max deal at this point though. I can see the case for a team trying to pry him away from Minnesota and offering more but he's worth the rookie max sort of deal at most, which is 25% of the cap. He's eligible for 30% now since he's been in the league X number of years though but he's just not worth the inflated max. I don't blame them for offering him a deal lower than the max but they had to have known he wasn't happy with the team already so offering him a lesser deal could have been the final straw for him.

He isn't?

Durability is the only knock, he does tend to miss 10-15 games annually, but he's an efficient scoring, hard working, all-nba defender in his prime. Unless he gets hurt next season, someone is going to offer him a LOT more money than 110 million.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Butler isn't worth a max deal at this point though. I can see the case for a team trying to pry him away from Minnesota and offering more but he's worth the rookie max sort of deal at most, which is 25% of the cap. He's eligible for 30% now since he's been in the league X number of years though but he's just not worth the inflated max. I don't blame them for offering him a deal lower than the max but they had to have known he wasn't happy with the team already so offering him a lesser deal could have been the final straw for him.

This is the opposite of what everyone was clamoring for in the booker case. He’s unhappy already (Ulis waives/butler thinking his teammates don’t take it seriously), other teams will offer the max (equally applicable), so team shouldn’t make him angrier or be a “miser” by offering him anything less than full max. Hmm, why does it make sense in the booker scenario but not the butler scenario? Particularly considering butler has proven to be a two-way player whereas booker hasn’t.

 

[Hoop Head]

He isn't?

Durability is the only knock, he does tend to miss 10-15 games annually, but he's an efficient scoring, hard working, all-nba defender in his prime. Unless he gets hurt next season, someone is going to offer him a LOT more money than 110 million.

The max for him is about $130 million, I think, it's not that much of a difference but it does add up year to year. Someone may offer more, but Minnesota is already paying Wiggins big money and KAT is on the verge of a max extension also. From that dollar amount it looks like they're trying to get all of them making roughly the same amount annually, which would eat up 75% of their cap before the annual increases. A small market team like Minnesota can't afford 3 max guys unless they're willing to take a little less.

Butler is a good 2 way player but he hasn't proven to be a star that can carry a team on his own. He's a great 2nd piece but not the best player on a team you hope to contend with. His injuries are another reason why i think he's not quite a max player at this stage. He's worth a little more than the 4-7 year max of 25% but not quite worth the 30% max that is for players between 8-11 years, I believe. Then he'd be expecting the 35% super max next year, which he's definitely not worth. I think they offered the lower number now to sort of prepare things for future contracts.

So it's not so much he's not worth the money they're offering, he is, but he's not worth that extra 5%. The max on second and third contracts should be reserved for guys that have won something and lead their team somewhere like Durant, Lebron, Curry, Westbrook, and Harden.

 

[Mainstreet]

Lonzo Ball will reportedly undergo arthroscopic knee surgery.

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[Phrazbit]

The max for him is about $130 million, I think, it's not that much of a difference but it does add up year to year. Someone may offer more, but Minnesota is already paying Wiggins big money and KAT is on the verge of a max extension also. From that dollar amount it looks like they're trying to get all of them making roughly the same amount annually, which would eat up 75% of their cap before the annual increases. A small market team like Minnesota can't afford 3 max guys unless they're willing to take a little less.

Butler is a good 2 way player but he hasn't proven to be a star that can carry a team on his own. He's a great 2nd piece but not the best player on a team you hope to contend with. His injuries are another reason why i think he's not quite a max player at this stage. He's worth a little more than the 4-7 year max of 25% but not quite worth the 30% max that is for players between 8-11 years, I believe. Then he'd be expecting the 35% super max next year, which he's definitely not worth. I think they offered the lower number now to sort of prepare things for future contracts.

So it's not so much he's not worth the money they're offering, he is, but he's not worth that extra 5%. The max on second and third contracts should be reserved for guys that have won something and lead their team somewhere like Durant, Lebron, Curry, Westbrook, and Harden.

The Wolves went from the cellar to the playoffs by adding Butler, the Bulls did the opposite by letting him go. I'd say he's proven he can be a star on a good team. He's a repeat all-star who's been an elite defender. Honestly, the only question is durability, other than that he is 100% a max contract player. He's 28, his next contract should all be prime years, KAT is young and a max worthy player, Wiggins is young... and looking really mediocre but letting Butler go as a side effect of Wiggins contract only compounds the pain of Wiggins falling miles short of his trajectory.

I don't really know what the Wolves are thinking, if they are not willing to give Butler a max deal then they never should have acquired him. Now they're looking at either trading him and probably getting much less in return than what they sent off to get him, or watching him walk next summer and getting nothing for him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't really know what the Wolves are thinking, if they are not willing to give Butler a max deal then they never should have acquired him. Now they're looking at either trading him and probably getting much less in return than what they sent off to get him, or watching him walk next summer and getting nothing for him.

Although you acknowledged his durability, how valuable is a player that doesn't get along with a couple of your (hopefully) rising stars and usually misses at least 15 games per season? It looks to me that they either have to part ways with Towns or Butler and KAT is too young to give up on (IMO). They could have offered Jimmy the max with an eye towards trading him later but I suspect his decision to actively throw a game still rankles a lot of GMs. Getting him at a discount would have made it easier to move him when he becomes trade eligible.

 

[Phrazbit]

Although you acknowledged his durability, how valuable is a player that doesn't get along with a couple of your (hopefully) rising stars and usually misses at least 15 games per season? It looks to me that they either have to part ways with Towns or Butler and KAT is too young to give up on (IMO). They could have offered Jimmy the max with an eye towards trading him later but I suspect his decision to actively throw a game still rankles a lot of GMs. Getting him at a discount would have made it easier to move him when he becomes trade eligible.

It seems like Butler's critiques of Towns are not without merit. If I'm the Wolves I would focus on repairing that relationship, largely by trying to get Towns to take his craft more seriously.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's a difficult situation because of Thibs. It came out that the Wolves would fire Thibs before they would trade Towns and I think this is a part of that posturing right now. We'll see what happens but I'm glad the Wolves may blow up. They were a team that could rival the Suns in a few years if they remained in tact and healthy. If they blow up, we don't need to worry about that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It seems like Butler's critiques of Towns are not without merit. If I'm the Wolves I would focus on repairing that relationship, largely by trying to get Towns to take his craft more seriously.

That might be easier said than done. And I don't think Towns is the only player he's clashed with there.

 

[Phrazbit]

That might be easier said than done. And I don't think Towns is the only player he's clashed with there.

I guess I view it as a "now you gotta sleep in it" situation. That team sucked out loud before they got Butler, they gave up a lot to get him. They need to make it work even if the odds seem against it, because losing Butler for nothing sets them waaaaaaay back.

 

[Hoop Head]

They barely squeaked into the playoffs last year though. I know Butler was a big help there but he's also 29 years old. You don't choose the 29 year old wing over the 22 year old big, especially when that big is scoring 22 ppg, shooting 55% from the field, and 42% from 3pt range while also pulling down 12 rpg. Most teams never have a chance to add a player like Towns but players like Butler are out there.