The 2018-2019 Around the NBA thread

[Raindog]

The mavs are not in the playoff picture lol

They had an easy schedule and are 5-11 over their last 16, worse than the Suns.

And by the same logic Ayton is putting up numbers that no rookie has.

The Sacramento Kings are more of a playoff contender at this point. Is Marvin Bagley having an "off the charts" rookie year, too?

The answer is, of course, an emphatic NO. And I know that Bagley hasn't had an equivalent season to Doncic. But just pointing out the absurd lengths to which the Doncic fan club will go to pile on the hype. The Mavs are somewhat improved, but they weren't as bad as their record last year indicated anyway. And they also added DeAndre Jordan, who has had at least a little to do with their improvement, as well.

In Larry Bird's rookie year, the Celtics went from 29 wins to 61 wins. In Magic's rookie year, the Lakers won the NBA title. THOSE are transcendent rookie years. What Doncic is doing is good, not amazing. The Mavericks are more than very likely going to be back in the lottery next year, too.

Funny how some people get so touchy when you acknowledge that Doncic is having a good year, but disagree that he is the next Basketball Jesus. Then you become "a hater, jealous, Ayton-apologist" etc.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You seem awfully confident there.

Best I can say is, "Maybe..."?

I was thinking only yes or no options. So, yes as opposed to no, but maybe always.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Man two totally different beasts. Hard to tell who will have the greater impact on the game.

We are entering a new era in the NBA. There will be some really historic stars in the next few years.

 

[Raindog]

Just for the record, I think Zion is getting quite a bit overhyped, too... really, in a very similar manner to Doncic was last year. He could likewise have a good transition to the NBA, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the Suns in a position to get him next year. But people need to slow the roll on overhyping these guys just because the inane national sports media love to jump on the "next big thing." Putting all the hype aside, there really is nothing at this point to suggest either Doncic or Williamson are going to be surefire legends over the long haul. In five or six years, either (or both) could be just another interesting NBA footnote, breathless projections notwithstanding.

 

[Ronin]

Lakers are struggling. Come on guys let’s think of ways the nba can help them.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yeah, this is the "Around the NBA" thread and while Luka is on another team he also has a number of other threads on the main page here, why is that? Is it really necessary to gush over him in every thread possible? Why did the lovefest get moved here, were there not enough people participating in the other Luka specific threads? I don't get it. Why is there so much talk about him? Is he having a good season? Sure, he'll probably win rookie of the year and that's great for him but it doesn't really matter since the Suns didn't select him and this is a Suns board. So how many threads need to be dedicated to a player on another team that's only been in the league for 3 months?

That’s the point, there’s no need for Doncic threads in the Suns forum so might as well just keep all discussion about him to one specific thread that’s dedicated for all non Suns players which is what Doncic is.

 

[sunsfan88]

Just for the record, I think Zion is getting quite a bit overhyped, too... really, in a very similar manner to Doncic was last year. He could likewise have a good transition to the NBA, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the Suns in a position to get him next year. But people need to slow the roll on overhyping these guys just because the inane national sports media love to jump on the "next big thing." Putting all the hype aside, there really is nothing at this point to suggest either Doncic or Williamson are going to be surefire legends over the long haul. In five or six years, either (or both) could be just another interesting NBA footnote, breathless projections notwithstanding.

I’m curious, in 2002 did you feel the same way about LeBron too? And in 2011, I bet that you thought Anthony Davis was overhyped as well? Felt the same about Blake Griffin in 2009 I presume? And so on and so forth?

Basically every highly talked about draft prospect is overhyped until they show they are good in the NBA mentality?

 

[AzStevenCal]

It’s not just Chuck, Steve Kerr, Steph Curry, Jimmy Butler etc have all said the same thing and each of those guys watch more basketball than me, you and your cats combined I’m sure

I think he deserves it based on merit but because it’s in the West, it’s incredibly tough as there would certainly be snubs either way.

And you'd be wrong. They know the game better than I do but I have no life; I've watched more basketball since 1994 than most full time NBA scouts have during that period up until the past few years. Now, with my wife also retired, I don't watch anywhere near as much as I used to but I'm pretty sure I still watch more than any of those guys. Unlike them, I don't have to practice or sit for makeup or come up with a game plan or any of the other things they have to do in order to play, coach or analyze. And I'd also wager that Chuck watches far less than any of the other names you mentioned.

But to your point, I can't argue that Doncic doesn't deserve it based on merit.

 

[BC867]

Hey. Want to have a real argument? Will Zion be better than Doncic?

I vote yes.

Health will tell. That's a lot of weight to be putting on those ankles.

 

[sunsfan88]

And you'd be wrong. They know the game better than I do but I have no life; I've watched more basketball since 1994 than most full time NBA scouts have during that period up until the past few years. Now, with my wife also retired, I don't watch anywhere near as much as I used to but I'm pretty sure I still watch more than any of those guys. Unlike them, I don't have to practice or sit for makeup or come up with a game plan or any of the other things they have to do in order to play, coach or analyze. And I'd also wager that Chuck watches far less than any of the other names you mentioned.

But to your point, I can't argue that Doncic doesn't deserve it based on merit.

Ah I stand corrected, I didn’t know you watch other teams that much as well. I always want to but only end up tuning in if it’s a national TV game or something. I know Kerr and Curry watch a lot of basketball because Steph has had documentaries in which he talks about how he’s such a basketball junkie and his wife gets mad at him when he’s watching other teams even on his days off and such. Kerr is also one and Curry said that’s why they get along so well. Plus in Kerr’s case, I’m sure he watches a lot of film on his opponents as well. But you’re right, if you constantly watch other teams play then you probably do watch more than them.

 

[sunsfan88]

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Divac has done welll with the Kings after learning the every day responsibilities of being a GM.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just for the record, I think Zion is getting quite a bit overhyped, too... really, in a very similar manner to Doncic was last year. He could likewise have a good transition to the NBA, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the Suns in a position to get him next year. But people need to slow the roll on overhyping these guys just because the inane national sports media love to jump on the "next big thing." Putting all the hype aside, there really is nothing at this point to suggest either Doncic or Williamson are going to be surefire legends over the long haul. In five or six years, either (or both) could be just another interesting NBA footnote, breathless projections notwithstanding.

Seriously? I keep running across a lot of negativity about him but so far I haven't seen one single legitimate complaint beyond the "can he shoot from distance" question (which is a legit concern). But what is it about him that fails to impress you? I know I grow weary of all the "he's a man among boys but he won't be strong enough to dominate at the next level" comments that are about as uninformed as one can get IMO.

But if you really want some hype on Zion, how about this? If you took the Suns roster and the Dallas roster and tossed everyone back into this upcoming draft, I'd still take Zion with the first pick. Is he a surefire legend? Of course not - no one is until they are. But barring injury I think he has a very good chance of being the most dominant player of his NBA era. If we don't get him, I'm really hoping he makes me eat those words but not since Michael have I been as impressed by a college player.

 

[Raindog]

I’m curious, in 2002 did you feel the same way about LeBron too? And in 2011, I bet that you thought Anthony Davis was overhyped as well? Felt the same about Blake Griffin in 2009 I presume? And so on and so forth?

Basically every highly talked about draft prospect is overhyped until they show they are good in the NBA mentality?

Lebron was extremely hyped - and of course, lived up to the hype, so a (rare) case where it was justified. The other guys you mentioned were not nearly as hyped... and I wouldn't put them in the same category as Lebron in any case. Davis may end up being an all-time great, it remains to be seen. Griffin doesn't belong in that conversation.

The point being, the contemporary sports media landscape is so hyperbole driven that everything and everyone is now "the greatest team/player of all-time", the "next legendary so-and-so," "better than Jordan... or Montana... or Ted Williams" or whatever. Media in the internet age is so click-driven, and as a result, so given to overdramatizing and overrating nearly everything to convince a gullible public that we are living in some amazing time culturally and socially. And that even extends to sports, something that is largely dispensable and meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I find it all at the very least annoying, if not downright deleterious to contemporary mass sensibility and perspective.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ah I stand corrected, I didn’t know you watch other teams that much as well. I always want to but only end up tuning in if it’s a national TV game or something. I know Kerr and Curry watch a lot of basketball because Steph has had documentaries in which he talks about how he’s such a basketball junkie and his wife gets mad at him when he’s watching other teams even on his days off and such. Kerr is also one and Curry said that’s why they get along so well. Plus in Kerr’s case, I’m sure he watches a lot of film on his opponents as well. But you’re right, if you constantly watch other teams play then you probably do watch more than them.

I didn't realize they watched that much so maybe I'm wrong (on the non-Barkley names). I used to watch 40 or so NBA games a week plus at least that many college games. But that was back when I was alone and awake almost every hour of every day. Now, my wife is frequently home and switching from morphine to marijuana has re-introduced me to the pleasure of sleeping more than 20 hours a week so my NBA viewing is down to roughly 3 or 4 games per day.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Lebron was extremely hyped - and of course, lived up to the hype, so a (rare) case where it was justified. The other guys you mentioned were not nearly as hyped... and I wouldn't put them in the same category as Lebron in any case. Davis may end up being an all-time great, it remains to be seen. Griffin doesn't belong in that conversation.

The point being, the contemporary sports media landscape is so hyperbole driven that everything and everyone is now "the greatest team/player of all-time", the "next legendary so-and-so," "better than Jordan... or Montana... or Ted Williams" or whatever. Media in the internet age is so click-driven, and as a result, so given to overdramatizing and overrating nearly everything to convince a gullible public that we are living in some amazing time culturally and socially. And that even extends to sports, something that is largely dispensable and meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I find it all at the very least annoying, if not downright deleterious to contemporary mass sensibility and perspective.

I agree with this in general but that doesn't mean the blind media doesn't find a superstar acorn every now and then. I think Zion has the chance to be that generational stud that every team is going to wish they had.

 

[Raindog]

I agree with this in general but that doesn't mean the blind media doesn't find a superstar acorn every now and then. I think Zion has the chance to be that generational stud that every team is going to wish they had.

Well, if the Suns get him, I will certainly join in your hope.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Lebron was extremely hyped - and of course, lived up to the hype, so a (rare) case where it was justified. The other guys you mentioned were not nearly as hyped... and I wouldn't put them in the same category as Lebron in any case. Davis may end up being an all-time great, it remains to be seen. Griffin doesn't belong in that conversation.

The point being, the contemporary sports media landscape is so hyperbole driven that everything and everyone is now "the greatest team/player of all-time", the "next legendary so-and-so," "better than Jordan... or Montana... or Ted Williams" or whatever. Media in the internet age is so click-driven, and as a result, so given to overdramatizing and overrating nearly everything to convince a gullible public that we are living in some amazing time culturally and socially. And that even extends to sports, something that is largely dispensable and meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I find it all at the very least annoying, if not downright deleterious to contemporary mass sensibility and perspective.

That’s recency bias on your part.

Harold minor = baby Jordan

Clarence weatherspoon = next Barkley


Overhype has always existed.

 

[Raindog]

That’s recency bias on your part.

Harold minor = baby Jordan

Clarence weatherspoon = next Barkley

Overhype has always existed.

Not to the degree it does now. No one really took those comparisons seriously for more than five minutes back in the day.

Just wait for the next guy after Williamson, who they are going to label as the "next Lebron"... just like the other "next Lebrons" of recent years - i.e. Shabazz, Parker, Wiggins. I guarantee there will be another guy they puff up, right after the Zion hype dies out.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not to the degree it does now. No one really took those comparisons seriously for more than five minutes back in the day.

Just wait for the next guy after Williamson, who they are going to label as the "next Lebron"... just like the other "next Lebrons" of recent years - i.e. Shabazz, Parker, Wiggins. I guarantee there will be another guy they puff up, right after the Zion hype dies out.

You’re wrong. We just didn’t have the same everyday access to the hype. I’m pretty sure Sports Illustrated has minor on its cover as baby Jordan or something to that extent. That was the equivalent to modern clickbait “best ever” articles in ESPN. the medium and frequency changes, not the hype imo.

I mean, Greg oden was supposed to unstoppable. Going further back Shaq was unreal hype. The only difference is today you can read someone different with the hype every day, and sometimes every hour.

 

[Raindog]

The only difference is today you can read someone different with the hype every day, and sometimes every hour.

Which, by extension, proves my point. Thank you.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just for the record, I think Zion is getting quite a bit overhyped, too... really, in a very similar manner to Doncic was last year. He could likewise have a good transition to the NBA, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the Suns in a position to get him next year. But people need to slow the roll on overhyping these guys just because the inane national sports media love to jump on the "next big thing." Putting all the hype aside, there really is nothing at this point to suggest either Doncic or Williamson are going to be surefire legends over the long haul. In five or six years, either (or both) could be just another interesting NBA footnote, breathless projections notwithstanding.

I could care less about the hype. If you watch Zion play he is for real. No hype is needed.

No one can declare any player coming out of college as a legend. However, the odds of him turning into a great player are pretty good less injury.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

"by then"

This type of BS just triggers me.

Ayton is putting up 1~17/11/2/1 and a TS% of over 60. For all intents and purposes he is putting up better numbers than Doncic, has more winshares and a better net rating and does not have 2 years of pro experience.

Which is pretty amazing considering the amount of winshares you can get is directly tied to the amount of wins your team has. Ayton is responsible for 4.3 of the teams 11 wins, but would likely have a higher winshare number if the team had more wins.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Which, by extension, proves my point. Thank you.

No it doesn’t. It just means there’s more available, not that the level of hype is any greater.

 

[Bufalay]

Anyone understand what just happened with Danuel House’s contract? He has to go play in the G league?

 

[Hoop Head]

Anyone understand what just happened with Danuel House’s contract? He has to go play in the G league?

He was on a Two-Way contract and his 45 days on the main roster were used up. They didn't convert it to a normal contract so he's back in the G-League until the season ends sometime in late March. He's able to come back up then but I don't believe he's eligible for the playoffs on a Two-Way deal but I could be wrong on that. I do know days don't count after the G-League season has wrapped up, and it does so before the NBA season which is why we had House and Alec Peters up towards the end of the year last year.