The 2019 Draft

[Krangodnzr]

I'm trying not to compare them, what I'm saying is they're drawing similar comparisons and hype. Look up what was said about Bennett pre-draft and look up what's being said about Zion now, it's very similar....

Here's some talk about Bennett...



Tell me the same thing isn't being said about Zion? You can replace Bennett's name in that with Zion and it would read like a scouting report someone just put out. There's more at the link, that's just a little bit of it but Zion's scouting report reads very similar to that.

I said that I was worried about Zion to a certain degree because it seems like most of the hype around sounds similar to what was said about Bennett. I think Zion will be better and he's farther along now than Bennett was at the same stage but hearing the same thing is a little concerning. That would like if the hype for Ayton sounded like what was said about Len.

Its only concerning to you because they have both been compared to the same player.

Williamson is quite a bit better right now than Bennett ever has been. Bennett's problem is that he was always the best athlete and when he got to the NBA that wasn't the case. Williamson will be one of the best athletes in the NBA immediately. Just look at some of the plays he's making, 95% of the NBA can't do make those plays.

 

[slinslin]

Benett was though of as a mid-late lottery pick for most of the year, he had very little hype about him at all and him being picked #1 was a huge surprise.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Its only concerning to you because they have both been compared to the same player.

Williamson is quite a bit better right now than Bennett ever has been. Bennett's problem is that he was always the best athlete and when he got to the NBA that wasn't the case. Williamson will be one of the best athletes in the NBA immediately. Just look at some of the plays he's making, 95% of the NBA can't do make those plays.

Williamson reminds me of Shaq more than Anthony Bennett. Obviously, they play different positions and Shaq was six inches taller while Williamson has hopes for outside shooting and perimeter skills.

But Shaq seems like the right comparison due to the sheer force of his size and athleticism combo when compared to everyone else. There's just nobody like him as an athlete in the NBA today.

 

[95pro]

Kind of weird how Zion isn't the tallest or with the best vertical ever (not even close surprisingly) but he just seems way more athletic than some nba guys.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Kind of weird how Zion isn't the tallest or with the best vertical ever (not even close surprisingly) but he just seems way more athletic than some nba guys.

It’s just the novelty of all that bulk rising up like that.

My point is that we really have no idea how good Williamson is at the moment. We know he can jump and he seems to have good timing. Anyway I need to quit posting about it. We will see.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It’s just the novelty of all that bulk rising up like that.

My point is that we really have no idea how good Williamson is at the moment. We know he can jump and he seems to have good timing. Anyway I need to quit posting about it. We will see.

One of the teams he faced this year started four 6'2" or smaller guards and a 6'7" forward all of which obviously way smaller and weaker than Zion. What is dangerous with Zion as a prospect is that he may never play a single game this year against NBA like size and athleticism. Even Kentucky is way smaller than Duke and thus were unable to stop Zion from going where he wanted to go. As it is Zion may have to rely solely on his ability to get to the basket and that is simply much more difficult to do against NBA size and athleticism. At least with someone like Simmons, who has virtually no outside game, he has great facilitating to fall back on.

Ultimately I am confident that Zion will be a good NBA player, but I am just not sold that he is a future NBA star just yet.

 

[JCSunsfan]

One of the teams he faced this year started four 6'2" or smaller guards and a 6'7" forward all of which obviously way smaller and weaker than Zion. What is dangerous with Zion as a prospect is that he may never play a single game this year against NBA like size and athleticism. Even Kentucky is way smaller than Duke and thus were unable to stop Zion from going where he wanted to go. As it is Zion may have to rely solely on his ability to get to the basket and that is simply much more difficult to do against NBA size and athleticism. At least with someone like Simmons, who has virtually no outside game, he has great facilitating to fall back on.

Ultimately I am confident that Zion will be a good NBA player, but I am just not sold that he is a future NBA star just yet.

Good observations. Zion is that classic type of player where his freakish athleticism makes you ignore skills and IQ. I am not saying he doesn’t have skills or IQ, it just takes a bit longer to judge that part.

 

[95pro]

It’s just the novelty of all that bulk rising up like that.

My point is that we really have no idea how good Williamson is at the moment. We know he can jump and he seems to have good timing. Anyway I need to quit posting about it. We will see.

He did start playing early in his life, so he probably has more skills but are overshadowed by his dunks.

But yeah all the highlights are from high school and a small sampling from college games, and no doubt those players don't compare to NBA players. Not even close.

Right now Zion's height is average and vertical is above average but not among the elite in NBA historical context.. Tough to say where he'll land in the NBA.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Good observations. Zion is that classic type of player where his freakish athleticism makes you ignore skills and IQ. I am not saying he doesn’t have skills or IQ, it just takes a bit longer to judge that part.

Also his huge size advantage that allows him to be a bully around the basket. These are all things that he may still do at the NBA level or he may struggle when it isn't coming so easily anymore.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Williamson reminds me of Shaq more than Anthony Bennett. Obviously, they play different positions and Shaq was six inches taller while Williamson has hopes for outside shooting and perimeter skills.

But Shaq seems like the right comparison due to the sheer force of his size and athleticism combo when compared to everyone else. There's just nobody like him as an athlete in the NBA today.

I see why he's been compared to Shaq, Larry Johnson, Julius Randle, Charles Barkley, Lebron James, Blake Griffin and Rodney Rogers. But actually he reminds me as much of Amare as any one single player I can think of though none of the comps really do him justice. I know he can fail, any of them can, but when's the last time we saw a physical player that could put the ball on the floor, find open teammates, was an explosive leaper, possessed great timing and had a killer first step? I can't think of any.

If we get him, I'd worry mostly about injury risks and whether he and Ayton could co-exist on the court. Until we know more about his outside shot we really won't know how he'll fit into today's game. But IMO his floor is already well above that of an average NBA player. Even if it turns out he has no outside game and won't ever develop one (and I don't believe that will happen), someone will find a way to build a potent offense around him.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

If we get him, I'd worry mostly about injury risks and whether he and Ayton could co-exist on the court.

I would also worry about these things, but would be more than happy to do so!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm trying not to compare them, what I'm saying is they're drawing similar comparisons and hype. Look up what was said about Bennett pre-draft and look up what's being said about Zion now, it's very similar....

Here's some talk about Bennett...



Tell me the same thing isn't being said about Zion? You can replace Bennett's name in that with Zion and it would read like a scouting report someone just put out. There's more at the link, that's just a little bit of it but Zion's scouting report reads very similar to that.

I said that I was worried about Zion to a certain degree because it seems like most of the hype around sounds similar to what was said about Bennett. I think Zion will be better and he's farther along now than Bennett was at the same stage but hearing the same thing is a little concerning. That would like if the hype for Ayton sounded like what was said about Len.

If reading that stuff concerns you, watch them both. You will lose your concern.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Good observations. Zion is that classic type of player where his freakish athleticism makes you ignore skills and IQ. I am not saying he doesn’t have skills or IQ, it just takes a bit longer to judge that part.

In one of the games where the press was gushing over his dunks he had one of the best non-dunk sequences I’ve ever seen from college freshman. He came outta nowhere for a weak side block, kept the back inbiunds, corralled it, started up court in the break with the ball, and made one of the best long court bounce passes between two defenders with English on it to position the guy leading the break perfectly into a dunk. When I saw that I immediately realized, this guy is SO much more than a freaky dunker. So much more.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If reading that stuff concerns you, watch them both. You will lose your concern.

Yeah. I've seen several posters express doubt about him and that's understandable. But what I haven't seen? I haven't seen someone that's watched him play a few games post concerns about all the things he supposedly can't or won't be able to do.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah. I don't see such a comparison to Bennett. To me, the comparison is more Wiggins. Not in stature or bulk so much. Just the fact that both were freakish athletes, both being compared to LeBron. Both considered "can't miss" prospects.

Now here comes the "they are nothing alike" comments. Again, I am just comparing in the ways I mentioned, nothing more.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He did start playing early in his life, so he probably has more skills but are overshadowed by his dunks.

But yeah all the highlights are from high school and a small sampling from college games, and no doubt those players don't compare to NBA players. Not even close.

Right now Zion's height is average and vertical is above average but not among the elite in NBA historical context.. Tough to say where he'll land in the NBA.

I don’t get this his vertical is not elite narrative. There was recently a highlight clip where it was a duke practice and he repeatedly maxed out the vertical measurer and all the duke players were hollering.

Regardless of the measurable. That don’t matter compared to in-game leaping ability. Good example? Booker measured with a strong vertical pre-draft. He can dunk on anyone and is routinely blocked by other guards even on layup attempts. Zion already has multiple in-game dunks where the rim is at his eye level . . . and it’s only 3 games into his freshman year. That’s called ridiculous functional athleticism.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah. I don't see such a comparison to Bennett. To me, the comparison is more Wiggins. Not in stature or bulk so much. Just the fact that both were freakish athletes, both being compared to LeBron. Both considered "can't miss" prospects.

Now here comes the "they are nothing alike" comments. Again, I am just comparing in the ways I mentioned, nothing more.

Interesting. I think Zion is much more engaged in both ends of the court and has a bigger personality than Wiggins. I think he’s more alpha. And I think the lebron comparisons do him a disservice. There’s literally no one like lebron. Different type of force of nature altogether. One we are not likely to see again anytime soon imo.

 

[95pro]

I don’t get this his vertical is not elite narrative. There was recently a highlight clip where it was a duke practice and he repeatedly maxed out the vertical measurer and all the duke players were hollering.

Regardless of the measurable. That don’t matter compared to in-game leaping ability. Good example? Booker measured with a strong vertical pre-draft. He can dunk on anyone and is routinely blocked by other guards even on layup attempts. Zion already has multiple in-game dunks where the rim is at his eye level . . . and it’s only 3 games into his freshman year. That’s called ridiculous functional athleticism.

I think that same video also said he didn't make the top 50 in vertical so that's what I meant by historical context.

But yeah I agree there are more to players than measurements, I agree completely on the in game stuff, especially on booker for that matter.

*edit
a 40 inch IIRC vertical is pretty damn good though, I understated that for sure.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah. I don't see such a comparison to Bennett. To me, the comparison is more Wiggins. Not in stature or bulk so much. Just the fact that both were freakish athletes, both being compared to LeBron. Both considered "can't miss" prospects.

Now here comes the "they are nothing alike" comments. Again, I am just comparing in the ways I mentioned, nothing more.

I get what you're saying and to be fair, coming out of high school I did have Wiggins in the can't miss category. But it was based solely on rep and highlights. As a result of the over the top hype on Wiggins, I've become very reluctant to just accept the scouting reports whether they're from scouts or rabid fans. I didn't say a word about Zion until I watched him actually play the game and he blew up all expectations IMO. Like Bennett or Wiggins, he could still disappoint in the NBA but barring injuries, I can't see him failing.

 

[95pro]

I forget too, on FB there was some crazy elite basketball training program being advertised. Zion was the man guy in that video, some may have seen it. He does some crazy training in the FB clip.

 

[Proximo]

One of the teams he faced this year started four 6'2" or smaller guards and a 6'7" forward all of which obviously way smaller and weaker than Zion. What is dangerous with Zion as a prospect is that he may never play a single game this year against NBA like size and athleticism. Even Kentucky is way smaller than Duke and thus were unable to stop Zion from going where he wanted to go. As it is Zion may have to rely solely on his ability to get to the basket and that is simply much more difficult to do against NBA size and athleticism. At least with someone like Simmons, who has virtually no outside game, he has great facilitating to fall back on.

Ultimately I am confident that Zion will be a good NBA player, but I am just not sold that he is a future NBA star just yet.

I am.

Lebron had a lousy outside shot when he started in the NBA too, but he also showed great ability to get to the hoop. He is a fantastic passer also.

Zion is going to be a GREAT nba player. I have zero doubt of it even if he never gets an outside shot.

Problem is the Suns likelihood of getting first pick 2 years in a row is almost zero.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I am.

Lebron had a lousy outside shot when he started in the NBA too, but he also showed great ability to get to the hoop. He is a fantastic passer also.

Zion is going to be a GREAT nba player. I have zero doubt of it even if he never gets an outside shot.

Problem is the Suns likelihood of getting first pick 2 years in a row is almost zero.

I just have to see it against better talent to be sold on him being a star. When your dominance is heavily influenced by skill, but you also have elite athleticism than I can buy fully into it. However outside of a couple plays in 3 games Zion has been dominating mostly because of his combination of elite size and athleticism.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

In one of the games where the press was gushing over his dunks he had one of the best non-dunk sequences I’ve ever seen from college freshman. He came outta nowhere for a weak side block, kept the back inbiunds, corralled it, started up court in the break with the ball, and made one of the best long court bounce passes between two defenders with English on it to position the guy leading the break perfectly into a dunk. When I saw that I immediately realized, this guy is SO much more than a freaky dunker. So much more.

To be fair you are talking about one play of a game. I have seen JJ make some incredible passes at the NBA level (or great defensive to offensive sequences), but I think we can all agree that he isn't really all that good at it on any sort of a regular basis. We just won't know until he is doing it against legit size and athleticism, but unfortunately he might not see that at all at the college level.

It should be noted that as of right now I would take him with the #1 pick without hesitation. I am simply stating that I am not sold that he will be a legit NBA star just yet.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To be fair you are talking about one play of a game. I have seen JJ make some incredible passes at the NBA level (or great defensive to offensive sequences), but I think we can all agree that he isn't really all that good at it on any sort of a regular basis. We just won't know until he is doing it against legit size and athleticism, but unfortunately he might not see that at all at the college level.

It should be noted that as of right now I would take him with the #1 pick without hesitation. I am simply stating that I am not sold that he will be a legit NBA star just yet.

I no longer am “convinced” anyone will be an nba star. I was sold on Wiggins and that taught me my lesson.

That said I’m talking about potential. He oozes nba star potential.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Benett was though of as a mid-late lottery pick for most of the year, he had very little hype about him at all and him being picked #1 was a huge surprise.

Exactly. Bennett came from out of nowhere and wasn't considered a contender for #1 overall we after the tournament. It was even a mild surprise when he was selected on draft day.