The Ayton Plan

AzStevenCal

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I hope we do trade Ayton for Poeltl
Why?

Firstly, I hope we sign DA to a 4 or 5 year max deal. Failing that, I hope we match whatever offer he takes. If we fail there too for whatever reason, I hope we get a starting caliber big man, a role player and a high pick or two. A deal for Poeltl could fit that description but keep in mind that only occurs if we've already failed twice to hang onto him.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Why?

Firstly, I hope we sign DA to a 4 or 5 year max deal. Failing that, I hope we match whatever offer he takes. If we fail there too for whatever reason, I hope we get a starting caliber big man, a role player and a high pick or two. A deal for Poeltl could fit that description but keep in mind that only occurs if we've already failed twice to hang onto him.
I think Finito is hoping it punishes the suns and Ayton haters.
 

Finito

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That's fine plenty of draft day trades don't get announced officially until July 1st.

Oh yeah but you know the phones are already ringing off the hook.

Yup ringing off the hook…because I’m old
 

Mainstreet

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Even if the hypothetical sign and trade with the Spurs is spiced up with the 25th pick, that trade is going to look pretty blah down the road.

The Suns would have to turn some pieces into a star to salvage it.
 

GatorAZ

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That's fine plenty of draft day trades don't get announced officially until July 1st.

That’s different than trading free agents. Ayton can’t negotiate with other teams until after the draft. I suppose it’s possible that they get a player from this year’s draft but they wouldn’t be unofficially drafting for the Suns.
 

Folster

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That’s different than trading free agents. Ayton can’t negotiate with other teams until after the draft. I suppose it’s possible that they get a player from this year’s draft but they wouldn’t be unofficially drafting for the Suns.

I imagine the other team would ask for permission to speak with Ayton or back-channel if it's not allowed.
 

AzStevenCal

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Even if the hypothetical sign and trade with the Spurs is spiced up with the 25th pick, that trade is going to look pretty blah down the road.

The Suns would have to turn some pieces into a star to salvage it.
Yeah that's why I keep saying sign him, or match his offer unless the bridges have been too badly burned. And if that's the case, we'll likely be forced to settle for pennies on the dollar - just hope one of the pennies turns out to be a 1944 Steel Lincoln Penny.
 

Raindog

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Maybe that's why the Suns have been looking at late first round draft picks with the 9th pick being traded.
What would they be trading the 9th pick for? It seems to me that would be just about the only desirable asset in this trade.
 

Finito

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Even if the hypothetical sign and trade with the Spurs is spiced up with the 25th pick, that trade is going to look pretty blah down the road.

The Suns would have to turn some pieces into a star to salvage it.

This is what flex is saying don’t be surprised if we trade Ayton for what looks like a lot of nothing then use those pieces for a bigger fish
 

Raindog

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So the plan is to trade Ayton for little pieces, and then turn around the little pieces for a big piece? Gee, I hope they have identified whatever the stupidest team in the NBA is that is willing to do that before they pull the trigger.
 

AzStevenCal

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This is what flex is saying don’t be surprised if we trade Ayton for what looks like a lot of nothing then use those pieces for a bigger fish
That's all well and good but I just don't see how a "lot of nothing" can add up to a "bigger fish". Nothing is still nothing no matter how high you stack it.
 

Mainstreet

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What would they be trading the 9th pick for? It seems to me that would be just about the only desirable asset in this trade.

This is where the trade idea starts to fall apart. The draft is before free agency. I doubt the Spurs are going to draft for the Suns and I doubt Phoenix is interested in the 9th pick let alone knowing how a third team values the pick.
 

Mainstreet

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This is what flex is saying don’t be surprised if we trade Ayton for what looks like a lot of nothing then use those pieces for a bigger fish

It's all too speculative for my taste but we are going to hear a lot more of this stuff until Ayton re-signs with the Suns.
 

Raindog

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Indeed... regarding Flex's "speculations," I find it hard to believe any GM would say "We aren't really interested in trading for Ayton, but if you can somehow get your hands on the 25th pick, we will gladly give you our best player for a package built around it." :rolleyes:
 

Cheesebeef

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The speculation on this is going to be hilarious for a good six weeks.

It’s gonna be like the summer when there was all that KG chatter after the Amare/Diaw suspension fiasco in 2007 when the board was sure we were getting him for Marion, Barbs and the Hawks pick (if it was 4)… then we lost the lotto and the pick and people convinced themselves that Marion, Barbs and next season’s pick was still gonna get it done.

Then we heard rumors it was done but Marion refused to go to Boston and then the board went nuclear on each other for some reason when no trade happened.

I assume the Ayton saga is will be somewhat similar. Good times to look forward to on the board this summer!
 

Mainstreet

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That's all well and good but I just don't see how a "lot of nothing" can add up to a "bigger fish". Nothing is still nothing no matter how high you stack it.

Supposedly the Suns would throw in a bunch of first round picks, maybe swaps, young players and expiring contracts.

The fly in the ointment is the draft occurs before free agency.
 

AzStevenCal

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Supposedly the Suns would throw in a bunch of first round picks, maybe swaps, young players and expiring contracts.

The fly in the ointment is the draft occurs before free agency.
IOW we're basically going to give team A a million dollars to acquire a million dollar property from them but first we're going to give Ayton away for peanuts to team B? We'll then send those peanuts to Team A as a tip, I guess? Why am I not liking this rumor?

I can usually see the reasononing behind Front Office moves even if I don't agree. If Flex is correct, I suspect I won't be able to make sense of whatever brilliant move we have planned. OTOH we have an aging point guard that has to play at slow tempo, maybe we can get an old guy or two to hobble the court with him.

Regardless, I'm sticking to my guns. We will sign Ayton or we will match his offer. I'll believe we're stupid enough to send him and a bunch of picks away for magic beans when we do it, and not a moment before.
 

Mainstreet

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IOW we're basically going to give team A a million dollars to acquire a million dollar property from them but first we're going to give Ayton away for peanuts to team B? We'll then send those peanuts to Team A as a tip, I guess? Why am I not liking this rumor?

I can usually see the reasononing behind Front Office moves even if I don't agree. If Flex is correct, I suspect I won't be able to make sense of whatever brilliant move we have planned. OTOH we have an aging point guard that has to play at slow tempo, maybe we can get an old guy or two to hobble the court with him.

Regardless, I'm sticking to my guns. We will sign Ayton or we will match his offer. I'll believe we're stupid enough to send him and a bunch of picks away for magic beans when we do it, and not a moment before.

This is exactly why a sign and trade doesn't make a lot of sense because Ayton would likely be needed to trade for a star.

I think some of these trade rumors evolve out of trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.
 

Big Al

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Why? He isn't quite the player that Ayton is right now and he certainly doesn't have DA's untapped potential but I think you can win with Poeltl starting for you.
Poeltl might be serviceable with the Suns. As the Suns really don't seem to value the center position too much anyway. And maybe a little has to do with what they got from McGhee @ $5 million and Bismack @ $1+ million vs. giving up $30 million to Ayton. But why trade down #1 draft pick talent wise for Poeltl & fillers? Of course $ factors in greatly because we are talking about the Suns. Maybe Poeltl works better under the Spurs as Pop and Spurs are know to squeeze as much talent out of their players as possible under their system and Suns not so much. We don't have the inside info on Ayton and Monty. Is their relationship beyond repair, or do the Suns think they can't tap into Ayton's potential and draw out the player that's possibly there or is money the primary deciding factor? Rumor has it Monty wasn't so please with Paul either at times too. As Paul is known to be demanding & overbearing. Here's where I would go but that means nothing. I would get rid of Paul before Ayton but with trade rules you couldn't reduce the payroll because what you trade out you have to take back in or close to. So Suns as usual in a place where they will get taken in trade of Ayton. We are not going to get equal value for Ayton. Lakers would love to have him and I think Ayton would prosper there if that went down but they have nothing but an Injury prone Anthony Davis who's value is going down the tube and LeBron is far too old so I wouldn't want him or later Junior aka Bronny. Ayton needs to take a $23-25 million a year contract from the Suns if they would be in agreement and he still be young enough to get a max on the next max time. Both parties share the blame and both parties have to give in negotiating. We were very close in 2021and individual feelings have to be put on the back burner & a team effort is needed to win that championship and make it work by being professional. That melt down of the Suns vs Mavs was everyone's fault. It's a team & organizational effort always. Finger pointing & feelings aside. They have to be flexible in a give & take situation or foil and go their separate ways by rolling the dice. And that's what it is looking like the rolling of the dice. The Suns are and have been a long work in trying to progress. Maybe one day..Go Suns!
 

AzStevenCal

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Poeltl might be serviceable with the Suns. As the Suns really don't seem to value the center position too much anyway. And maybe a little has to do with what they got from McGhee @ $5 million and Bismack @ $1+ million vs. giving up $30 million to Ayton. But why trade down #1 draft pick talent wise for Poeltl & fillers? Of course $ factors in greatly because we are talking about the Suns. Maybe Poeltl works better under the Spurs as Pop and Spurs are know to squeeze as much talent out of their players as possible under their system and Suns not so much. We don't have the inside info on Ayton and Monty. Is their relationship beyond repair, or do the Suns think they can't tap into Ayton's potential and draw out the player that's possibly there or is money the primary deciding factor? Rumor has it Monty wasn't so please with Paul either at times too. As Paul is known to be demanding & overbearing. Here's where I would go but that means nothing. I would get rid of Paul before Ayton but with trade rules you couldn't reduce the payroll because what you trade out you have to take back in or close to. So Suns as usual in a place where they will get taken in trade of Ayton. We are not going to get equal value for Ayton. Lakers would love to have him and I think Ayton would prosper there if that went down but they have nothing but an Injury prone Anthony Davis who's value is going down the tube and LeBron is far too old so I wouldn't want him or later Junior aka Bronny. Ayton needs to take a $23-25 million a year contract from the Suns if they would be in agreement and he still be young enough to get a max on the next max time. Both parties share the blame and both parties have to give in negotiating. We were very close in 2021and individual feelings have to be put on the back burner & a team effort is needed to win that championship and make it work by being professional. That melt down of the Suns vs Mavs was everyone's fault. It's a team & organizational effort always. Finger pointing & feelings aside. They have to be flexible in a give & take situation or foil and go their separate ways by rolling the dice. And that's what it is looking like the rolling of the dice. The Suns are and have been a long work in trying to progress. Maybe one day..Go Suns!
I just don't believe DA will take less than a max offer directly from us. If we're not going to max him then we have to match the offer he gets even if he asks us not to. Worst case we have an unhappy player to trade a year later but I don't believe Ayton will make too much of it.
 

Big Al

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Indeed... regarding Flex's "speculations," I find it hard to believe any GM would say "We aren't really interested in trading for Ayton, but if you can somehow get your hands on the 25th pick, we will gladly give you our best player for a package built around it." :rolleyes:
I always hope the best for the Suns but somehow I feel they will get the short end of the stick in any deal involving Ayton.
 
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