The Ayton Plan

[Finito]

Sooooooooo ignore all the other dimensions. CHECK. Ignore where he ranked in other categories and the playoffs. CHECK.

Saying it again. Stop being so defensive and acting like people say he sucks.

The playoffs? Oh you mean when we was also ranked our best defender in both series? There I go cherry picking again

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton should have been paid the 5 year max of about $172.5 million. I'm not sure how many would disagree.

He is a top 5 center.

This thread has almost turned into a justification of why they didn't. It really makes for an awkward situation.

Those are two different things. Saying a guy is a max player is driven by market which sometimes is driven by availability. That doesn't mean he is a Top 5 Center. I also didn't see anybody using it to justify not paying him. It's been the opposite. I think most people have acknowledged he is a max guy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Those are two different things. Saying a guy is a max player is driven by market which sometimes is driven by availability. That doesn't mean he is a Top 5 Center. I also didn't see anybody using it to justify not paying him. It's been the opposite. I think most people have acknowledged he is a max guy.

Same.

 

[Covert Rain]

The playoffs? Oh you mean when we was also ranked our best defender in both series? There I go cherry picking again

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

You are. There are a ton of stats previously posted (including playoffs) and where he ranked. Funny you didn't quote those?!!? Dude.....stop already with being overly sensitive about Ayton. It's embarrassing. Not agreeing he is a Top 5 defender isn't an insult. STOP.

 

[Mainstreet]

Those are two different things. Saying a guy is a max player is driven by market which sometimes is driven by availability. That doesn't mean he is a Top 5 Center. I also didn't see anybody using it to justify not paying him. It's been the opposite. I think most people have acknowledged he is a max guy.

This is precisely my point, when I said "I'm not sure how many would disagree."

I do think Ayton is a top 5 center though and should be paid as such.

 

[Finito]

You are. There are a ton of stats previously posted (including playoffs) and where he ranked. Funny you didn't quote those?!!? Dude.....stop already with being overly sensitive about Ayton. It's embarrassing. Not agreeing he is a Top 5 defender isn't an insult. STOP.

I just quoted your post. The post you put up with all the defensive stats showing he’s top 5 in defending 2s and 3s

That’s you. You posted that not me. Thank you for that by the way

 

[Covert Rain]

This is precisely my point, when I said "I'm not sure how many would disagree."

I do think Ayton is a top 5 center though and should be paid as such.

You drew correlation between him being a Top 5 center and paying him the max. My point was that he was getting the max regardless of being a Top 5 or Top 10 guy. There simply isn't a huge laundry list of big men in the league available. Top 10 guys like Ayton are getting paid in this league regardless.

 

[Covert Rain]

I just quoted your post. The post you put up with all the defensive stats showing he’s top 5 in defending 2s and 3s

That’s you. You posted that not me. Thank you for that by the way

I also posted lots of other stats too you are avoiding quoting. That was also me. You are welcome.

 

[Finito]

I also posted lots of other stats too you are avoiding quoting. That was also me. You are welcome.

I’m just messing with you. I’m bored lol.

I hope they all get traded and Monty gets fired.

 

[Mainstreet]

You drew correlation between him being a Top 5 center and paying him the max. My point was that he was getting the max regardless of being a Top 5 or Top 10 guy. There simply isn't a huge laundry list of big men in the league available. Top 10 guys like Ayton are getting paid in this league regardless.

There is a difference in max salary in terms of dollars. He is likely not going to get the $172.5 million max in restricted free agency.

He will probably only get a 4 year max and if it's a sign and trade, it will be even less dollars.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I seriously have no clue how Jokic ends up with 35 and 10 most nights. He's an enigma to me. I watch the games, see him playing, but have no clue the stat line is as good as it turns out to be.

I feel similarly about DA. The stats don't lie...... Obviously....... But the eye check continues to baffle me. My opinion..... He isn't as good or as bad as either. That's my take.

Keep the asset or get an absolute star. The poo-poo platter of Grant's, Poetl's and Nurkic's make me sick to my stomach personally. The guy is still a kid for Pete's sake. He's 45 days from his 24th birthday.

 

[Covert Rain]

There is a difference in max salary in terms of dollars. He is likely not going to get the $172.5 million max in restricted free agency.

He will only probably only get a 4 year max and if it's a sign and trade, it will be even less dollars.

Well that a product of him the rules and signing with your own team more than feeling where he overall ranks.

 

[Covert Rain]

I’m just messing with you. I’m bored lol.

I hope they all get traded and Monty gets fired.

OK. Now I know your messing around and bored. LOL.

 

[Folster]

There is a difference in max salary in terms of dollars. He is likely not going to get the $172.5 million max in restricted free agency.

He will only probably only get a 4 year max and if it's a sign and trade, it will be even less dollars.

Yes, my understanding is that the 5th year is no longer an option for sign and trades and I'm pretty sure the 8% raises are also off the table. The player can't get any more from a sign and trade than he can by signing directly with the new team. This was a good change to the CBA to help teams retain their players.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Deandre Ayton is a top 10 center but checking a number of sites that rank centers, it's hard to find one that ranks him above #6.

The link below is from HoopsHype but it is from September 2021.

Ranking the Top 22 centers for the 2021-22 season

HoopsHype projects and ranks the Top 22 centers in the NBA ahead of the 2021-22 season.

hoopshype.com

That’s what I found too. We think of the first seven sites it was like one 5th, three 6ths, and three 7ths.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But that’s the problem with DA it’s become paralysis by analyst. Who else have we ever taken a look at by 2’ increments? I’ve been on this board since like 2005 and I never once remember us doing this to a player. This thread is 187 pages of DA debate.
His offense is another issues we are talking about defense here so I’ll stick to that.

You can only defend 2s and 3s in the NBA that’s it. At its lowest basic level that’s what it comes down to and he’s in the top 5 defensively at both. We play a switching defense so we ask our center to guard the perimeter and he ranks number one on defending guards.

We had a top 5 defense all year. “DA is the quarterback of our defense”- Monty Williams. That’s because DA is also responsible for calling our defensive sets.

And it’s still well on his good nights and bad nights, but Those stats,those numbers factor in his bad nights. Those aren’t just good night stats and they comeback with elite.

It has gotten so unrealistic with DA we literally pointed out he’s in the top 5 defending 2s and 3s and someone will still say he’s not a top 5 defensive center…wait what! You can literally only defend 2s and 3s.

This perfect flawless player that he’s being compared to doesn’t exist.

If you always look for the bad you’ll always find it and if your focus is always on what someone doesn’t do you’ll miss what they actually do. Not saying you, just in general.

He gets this much scrutiny due to the cyclical nature of this board. Anytime anyone has even the smallest criticism of Ayton you come to his defense which begets more debate. It’s natural. But that’s the reason it ends up always devolving into minutiae. I’m willing to bet there’s not a single thread in which Ayton is criticized that you haven’t argued it. And that’s your prerogative.

The defense of 2% and 3% is a good one. However it’s also way too limited. An enormous aspect of perimeter defense is not allowing your man to break down the defense. I don’t know if stats exist for that, but the eyes tell me that’s a routine issue for Ayton. Once that happens who cares what his percentages are? He’s allowed the defense to be compromised so the open shot may come from a player he’s not defending but his original failure lead to it. And mind you, I believe Ayton is a very good defender, if absolutely not a good rim defender.

And your last comment is somewhat ironic considering everyone on here who has criticized an aspect of Ayton’s game has prettt routinely acknowledged his strengths this season. For some reason you want to ignore that fact.

 

[Finito]

He gets this much scrutiny due to the cyclical nature of this board. Anytime anyone has even the smallest criticism of Ayton you come to his defense which begets more debate. It’s natural. But that’s the reason it ends up always devolving into minutiae. I’m willing to bet there’s not a single thread in which Ayton is criticized that you haven’t argued it. And that’s your prerogative.

The defense of 2% and 3% is a good one. However it’s also way too limited. An enormous aspect of perimeter defense is not allowing your man to break down the defense. I don’t know if stats exist for that, but the eyes tell me that’s a routine issue for Ayton. Once that happens who cares what his percentages are? He’s allowed the defense to be compromised so the open shot may come from a player he’s not defending but his original failure lead to it. And mind you, I believe Ayton is a very good defender, if absolutely not a good rim defender.

And your last comment is somewhat ironic considering everyone on here who has criticized an aspect of Ayton’s game has prettt routinely acknowledged his strengths this season. For some reason you want to ignore that fact.

Na I’m done with it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The playoffs? Oh you mean when we was also ranked our best defender in both series? There I go cherry picking again

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Nance and dinwiddie just slaughtered ayton

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Na I’m done with it.

. . . for today . . .

 

[Big Al]

He literally had is best career game right before he got injured.

The fire underneath a player can be lit at anytime

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The fire underneath a player can be lit at anytime

Or . . . Benoit Benjamin

 

[Covert Rain]

The fire underneath a player can be lit at anytime

You clearly don’t recall Boris Diaw.

 

[Big Al]

The fire underneath a player can be lit at anytime

Or . . . Benoit Benjamin

??? I don't know if you understood what I was saying. What I meant was a players can just get it and understand the game and what it takes and become more than they were at anytime. Everything just comess together for them and they become productive. Like a late bloomer. They get fired up!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I understood exactly what you were saying, I was just commenting that it easily never happens. In fact, I’m trying to think of a single scenario where a player seemed to not have the fire in their belly but acquire it later in their career. Take time to develop? Sure, that’s the story of a lot of big men. But actually go from being kinda passive/goofy to a dawg? Not so much. Lots of examples of guys who stayed passive though (Benjamin, kandiman, Joe barely cares, etc.).

 

[AzStevenCal]

I understood exactly what you were saying, I was just commenting that it easily never happens. In fact, I’m trying to think of a single scenario where a player seemed to not have the fire in their belly but acquire it later in their career. Take time to develop? Sure, that’s the story of a lot of big men. But actually go from being kinda passive/goofy to a dawg? Not so much. Lots of examples of guys who stayed passive though (Benjamin, kandiman, Joe barely cares, etc.).

I don't recall it ever happening. Javale went from goofy to whatever he is now but even that's not the same thing. The saving grace here though is that Ayton isn't as unimpactful as so many of the Benoit type players we've seen, so at least his floor has value.