The Ayton Plan

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The problem with talking about a player making a position switch, it seems like one is advocating for it which I'm not. However, if a player like Rachaun Holmes were still on the Suns roster I would tinker with it in practice or special situations to see what it looks like.

I do think Ayton has the potential to be a good outside shooter. He has a soft touch on his shot.

But it doesn’t have a lot of arc. So I think it doesn’t translate well to greater distance.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton would be a complete disaster at a 4. In today's game you need your 4 to stretch the floor. When crowder has good games that is a perfect example. It opens the floor up. Ayton would be a major liability on offense and that would allow the other teams PF to float. No way. The team needs a legit PF who has an inside game and can rebound more than they need a center to play next to Ayton.

 

[95pro]

A Lopez brother?

 

[Carolinacacti]

I am reserving judgement til the playoffs. I can not politely describe the effort I saw against the Warriors.

This is my take. Suns are saving him for the playoffs. I can dream and I agree make him play next year before extending him.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Add a strong defensive center and move Ayton to the 4 spot and yeah, maybe that could work. It's possible we could even be really good doing that but we'd essentially be turning Ayton into a poor man's Channing Frye and he might not like the 12 million a year that kind of play is worth. And that's if we could find a really good defensive center which isn't easy to do and if the guy has little to no offense we'd be throwing Booker and Paul to the wolves.

Anyway, without a doubt we'd be better if we could add a solid or better player at the 4 or at the 5. But IMO moving Ayton to the 4 is likely to leave us outmatched every night at both spots. And right now even with DA's frequent disappearances, I believe we win the battle at the 5 spot more than half the time.

He definitely does not like the kind of play that $30M per is [supposed to be] worth!

 

[Dr. Jones]

Ahhhh Ayton...... the more things change, the more they stay the same.

I also think he would be a disaster at the 4. Not only is the 4 a much more important position, he is not talented enough perimeter player to make it work in todays NBA.

What we need is a more talented 4 to hide HIS deficiencies, not a more talented 5 to hide them.

I have zero answers as to how to fix it but know that we are not a finals team when everyone is playing. And maybe only a top 5 playoff team in the west when everyone is playing.

I fully expect to get bounced in round 2. Especially if we are on the same side as the Clippers and Lakers. It may be round 1 if CP3 gets hurt earlier than I expect or we somehow draw the Lake show in round 1.

 

[Muggz]

My plan for Ayton is to let him turn 23 and get some playoff exp.

Put his ass in the Gym this summer with a REAL BIG MAN COACH!

Feed him pasta, steak and cinderblocks.

Lock him in a room with the Morris twins until his balls drop.

reevaluate

 

[Mainstreet]

My plan for Ayton is to let him turn 23 and get some playoff exp.

Put his ass in the Gym this summer with a REAL BIG MAN COACH!

Feed him pasta, steak and cinderblocks.

Lock him in a room with the Morris twins until his balls drop.

reevaluate

Stix could benefit from the same experience.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My plan for Ayton is to let him turn 23 and get some playoff exp.

Put his ass in the Gym this summer with a REAL BIG MAN COACH!

Feed him pasta, steak and cinderblocks.

Lock him in a room with the Morris twins until his balls drop.

reevaluate

lol

 

[AzStevenCal]

Lock him in a room with the Morris twins.

reevaluate

I might be willing to lock him in a room with Crowder and Craig but I don't want him anywhere close to either Morris and certainly not both.

 

[GatorAZ]

My plan for Ayton is to let him turn 23 and get some playoff exp.

Put his ass in the Gym this summer with a REAL BIG MAN COACH!

Feed him pasta, steak and cinderblocks.

Lock him in a room with the Morris twins until his balls drop.

reevaluate

Does anyone think he’s too thin? I’d rather he focus on explosive training and mental acuity exercises.

 

[Mainstreet]

Does anyone think he’s too thin? I’d rather he focus on explosive training and mental acuity exercises.

I think Jalen Smith is too thin as well. My concern is whether he has the frame to put on enough weight and muscle to be effective in the NBA.

 

[Muggz]

Does anyone think he’s too thin? I’d rather he focus on explosive training and mental acuity exercises.

One of his problems is he gets bullied when the other center is bigger or the same size. He could use a lil more mass which will come as he grows.

Nothing major just 50-70lbs of muscle and maybe a 2 inch growth spurt over the off season.

 

[elindholm]

One of his problems is he gets bullied when the other center is bigger or the same size. He could use a lil more mass which will come as he grows.

He already gets bullied by much smaller players. The problem with Ayton is his attitude, not his physique. He's just not aggressive or threatening. If you look at someone like Davis or Embiid, their body language projects aggression even when they don't have the ball, and then once they get the ball, it goes to another level beyond that. Ayton is meek and incidental before he gets the ball, and once he gets it, he shrivels up in fear.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Jalen Smith is too thin as well. My concern is whether he has the frame to put on enough weight and muscle to be effective in the NBA.

@GatorAZ

Looking back I see you were talking about Ayton. By all means, he needs to get stronger and add more muscle.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He already gets bullied by much smaller players. The problem with Ayton is his attitude, not his physique. He's just not aggressive or threatening. If you look at someone like Davis or Embiid, their body language projects aggression even when they don't have the ball, and then once they get the ball, it goes to another level beyond that. Ayton is meek and incidental before he gets the ball, and once he gets it, he shrivels up in fear.

This. We’ve been saying it for three years now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He already gets bullied by much smaller players. The problem with Ayton is his attitude, not his physique. He's just not aggressive or threatening. If you look at someone like Davis or Embiid, their body language projects aggression even when they don't have the ball, and then once they get the ball, it goes to another level beyond that. Ayton is meek and incidental before he gets the ball, and once he gets it, he shrivels up in fear.

yup.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I'd settle if Ayton could match Dario or Frank's demeanor in the post, never mind AD/Embiid

 

[Yuma]

He has been blocking shots and rebounding, especially offensive boards as of the second half of the season. I am fine we don't need him to score 30 a night.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He has been blocking shots and rebounding, especially offensive boards as of the second half of the season. I am fine we don't need him to score 30 a night.

actually, he’s been blocking shots at the same rate he did the first half of the season (1.2 per game) and is averaging 2 rebounds less in the second half of the season then he did in the first half.

And no one is asking him to score 30 a night. Right now he’s not even scoring half of that at 14.4 ppg.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

He already gets bullied by much smaller players. The problem with Ayton is his attitude, not his physique. He's just not aggressive or threatening. If you look at someone like Davis or Embiid, their body language projects aggression even when they don't have the ball, and then once they get the ball, it goes to another level beyond that. Ayton is meek and incidental before he gets the ball, and once he gets it, he shrivels up in fear.

If this was a Dario Saric profile I would agree 100%. Ayton gets lost and has a pretty low BB IQ but Dario is truly afriad.

Ayton doesn't shrivel with fear, he just isn't aggressive by nature, he does provide the Suns with a middle that does alter shots. I would compare him more to a more talented version of Mark West. And remember the power dunkers that everyone gets excited about is a quickly diminishing skillset. IMO Zion will be a 3 point chucker in 3 years.


Ayton needs to do some very specific things.

1. He needs a big man coach (I'd love for Barkley to work with him, that's who I would hire if I was Ayton in the offseason), he brings the ball down too often, teams know to reach in because his instinct is to put the ball on the floor, he is a terrible dribbler and this is why he will never make it as a 4.

2. Hands, he needs to strengthen his hands and improve his hand eye coordination, I know that sounds silly but he drops way too many passes in the paint (not lobs), Instead of wasting time shooting 3's, he should be catching 1000 ball a day out of jugs machine at 60 MPH. He needs to work on his hands the way a WR would in the offseason.

3. Not take time off, he needs to continue working hard this offseason, this is probably the hardest thing to change because DA is just culturally a good person who loves life, basketball is something he does as a job, but he will never will have CP3 like drive. We just have to accept this and the coaches need to mitigate it by keeping him focused on what he does well and grow that as opposed to trying to make him AD like, that's never going to happen.

I do agree with the plan, no reason to extend him in the offseason, we need to resign Payne and Criag as the first priorities. I feel as if Payne will make a huge leap next year, especially if he can start to use his right hand.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

actually, he’s been blocking shots at the same rate he did the first half of the season (1.2 per game) and is averaging 2 rebounds less in the second half of the season then he did in the first half.

And no one is asking him to score 30 a night. Right now he’s not even scoring half of that at 14.4 ppg.

IMO shot alterations are as effective as blocks, Ayton does alter shots. Once the B team (Frank and Dario) comes in other teams immediately start attacking the paint. Stats can be manipulated to whatever you want. I am pretty sure Ayton's plus minus is much higher than the other bigs on the team.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I'd settle if Ayton could match Dario or Frank's demeanor in the post, never mind AD/Embiid

Not new or original. People used to say the same things about Amare with Lou Amudnson. Dario and Frank are both very weak interior players, Frank has a lot better balance than Dario and is probably a better shooter as well, but he is small, Dario is just a 8 or 9 rotational IMO.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Not new or original. People used to say the same things about Amare with Lou Amudnson. Dario and Frank are both very weak interior players, Frank has a lot better balance than Dario and is probably a better shooter as well, but he is small, Dario is just a 8 or 9 rotational IMO.

Depends which Dario you are getting. Early in the season he was playing like a good sixth man and lately he has been almost unplayable. Don't let this stretch fool you, he can absolutely play much better than he has been lately.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Depends which Dario you are getting. Early in the season he was playing like a good sixth man and lately he has been almost unplayable. Don't let this stretch fool you, he can absolutely play much better than he has been lately.

I liked him a lot in Phili. But those teams were trash and were tanking aka "the process". What worries me about him is the pressure is getting to him, maybe he proves me dead wrong and shakes this off. I definitely want him to do well I just think he playing scared, which is very disappointing.

I'd love to see him traded again for Butler.