The Ayton Plan

[Chaplin]

Chap, I’d like to think you’re right. But I just can’t credit a guy whose basketball IQ is so poor with having that level of strategic self-awareness.

And there may be something to that. And while I think very little of Mark Bryant nowadays I’d like to think there is SOME IQ there, even if only a little.

His penchant to want to avoid contact might even support the theory.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Ayton won't be on the Suns next season. The only questions is what can the Sun realistically get for him?

If you are a good GM, plenty, If you're YoutubeJone maybe not as much. realistically do you think every team is 100% happy with their good players? You're e Cardinals fan, so clearly you are aware how much they like to save money, those teams exist in the NBA too, more than in the NFL. There are players sitting on rosters that don't want to be in crappy markets.

Bigs get over valued all the time.

 

[Hoop Head]

Mark Bryant shouldn't be blamed for Ayton's shortcomings. Kevin Durant, in particular, credits Bryant for helping teach him how to defend in the post. He also credits Monty and Perk as the other who have helped him the most.

Bryant was an assistant in OKC back when Durant was there, for those who didn't know. He's highly regarded around the league.

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[Chaplin]

Mark Bryant shouldn't be blamed for Ayton's shortcomings. Kevin Durant, in particular, credits Bryant for helping teach him how to defend in the post. He also credits Monty and Perk as the other who have helped him the most.

Bryant was an assistant in OKC back when Durant was there, for those who didn't know. He's highly regarded around the league.

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Your video is literally from 7 years ago. Ayton has been in the league for how long? And he barely knows any fundamentals. That’s a coaching fail.

 

[Hoop Head]

Your video is literally from 7 years ago. Ayton has been in the league for how long? And he barely knows any fundamentals. That’s a coaching fail.

Maybe Ayton isn't a receptive student. In the meantime, I'll take KD's seal of approval on Bryant's coaching ability.

 

[Mainstreet]

What the Suns need most from Ayton is defense, particularly establishing position for rebounds, blocking out and protecting the rim without fouling.

Better positioning alone on offense and defense it would be a tremendous help for his game.

He should be able to average 15 points a game even without plays being run for him.

 

[Raindog]

Your video is literally from 7 years ago. Ayton has been in the league for how long? And he barely knows any fundamentals. That’s a coaching fail.

Absolutely. And if the coaches are teaching it and for whatever reason Ayton still isn't doing it, that is still on the coaches, because they would have to know he is not receptive by now and have had done something (anything) to either motivate him or call him out on it... and if that's not possible, have moved on from him. That's the coaching staff's freaking job.

 

[Hoop Head]

Absolutely. And if the coaches are teaching it and for whatever reason Ayton still isn't doing it, that is still on the coaches, because they would have to know he is not receptive by now and have had done something (anything) to either motivate him or call him out on it... and if that's not possible, have moved on from him. That's the coaching staff's freaking job.

You don't think Monty would be happier if DA were gone? The coaching staff doesn't make trades. They can't force effort either. Ayton's proven capable of doing all the things asked of him, he's proven as much before when he decides to exert himself and play hard for a stretch every other month. No one can force him to do that all the time. He's not the type of personality that can be publicly ripped to get him motivated either, see the "I run on a Tesla motor" nonsense he spewed recently for proof of that. That's not on the coaches and Monty speaking up would only cause Ayton to pout, like he did in game 3 when he was awful and snuck out before the media gained access to the team.

The coaches have done what they can, kid is a headcase. No one blames the coaches for Ben Simmons being Ben Simmons. Some Suns fans want so bad for Ayton to pan out they'll blame anyone but Ayton himself. He's not the franchise Center of Colangelo's dreams. He's closer to Luc Longley than David Robinson at this point and the only person to blame is the guy Ayton sees in the mirror.

 

[Raindog]

You don't think Monty would be happier if DA were gone? The coaching staff doesn't make trades. They can't force effort either. Ayton's proven capable of doing all the things asked of him, he's proven as much before when he decides to exert himself and play hard for a stretch every other month. No one can force him to do that all the time. He's not the type of personality that can be publicly ripped to get him motivated either, see the "I run on a Tesla motor" nonsense he spewed recently for proof of that. That's not on the coaches and Monty speaking up would only cause Ayton to pout, like he did in game 3 when he was awful and snuck out before the media gained access to the team.

The coaches have done what they can, kid is a headcase. No one blames the coaches for Ben Simmons being Ben Simmons. Some Suns fans want so bad for Ayton to pan out they'll blame anyone but Ayton himself. He's not the franchise Center of Colangelo's dreams. He's closer to Luc Longley than David Robinson at this point and the only person to blame is the guy Ayton sees in the mirror.

I'm certainly not saying that Ayton is free from responsibility from his own lack of performance... you are imputing that.

I am saying that after five full seasons in the league with the same team and (mostly) the same coaches, if he is still not responding to their coaching, there is something fundamentally wrong with the coaching approach. At every level of coaching that I am aware of, if you have a player who isn't responding to the coach, the coach has a responsibility for the good of the team to either A) change how that player is being taught, B) discipline that player until they "get it," or C) failing all of that, remove that player from the team.

I (and you, and everyone else on this forum) are of course not privy to whether the Suns have ever attempted the first course of action. It certainly doesn't seem they have really ever done much of the second either. And the third remains to be seen... possibly this off season.

In any case, there is plenty of other evidence besides the case of Ayton that the coaching staff isn't great at imparting or managing other fundamentals for the team as a whole... team rebounding and elements of defense certainly jump out as particular examples. The Suns have had the advantage of great individual talent these last few years that has help obviate those shortcoming to get them to a certain point of success.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What the Suns need most from Ayton is defense, particularly establishing position for rebounds, blocking out and protecting the rim without fouling.

Better positioning alone on offense and defense it would be a tremendous help for his game.

He should be able to average 15 points a game even without plays being run for him.

15? There’s literally no one on the nuggets that should be capable of guarding him.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

You don't think Monty would be happier if DA were gone? The coaching staff doesn't make trades. They can't force effort either. Ayton's proven capable of doing all the things asked of him, he's proven as much before when he decides to exert himself and play hard for a stretch every other month. No one can force him to do that all the time. He's not the type of personality that can be publicly ripped to get him motivated either, see the "I run on a Tesla motor" nonsense he spewed recently for proof of that. That's not on the coaches and Monty speaking up would only cause Ayton to pout, like he did in game 3 when he was awful and snuck out before the media gained access to the team.

The coaches have done what they can, kid is a headcase. No one blames the coaches for Ben Simmons being Ben Simmons. Some Suns fans want so bad for Ayton to pan out they'll blame anyone but Ayton himself. He's not the franchise Center of Colangelo's dreams. He's closer to Luc Longley than David Robinson at this point and the only person to blame is the guy Ayton sees in the mirror.

Longley was pretty smart. Ayton's comp is more Olden Polynice. They have similar games.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

15? There’s literally no one on the nuggets that should be capable of guarding him.

U of A fan? Ayton plays 6.6 height max there are plenty of guys that can guard him. I think many, maybe thousands of Dolphins are smarter than Ayton. And the declining university of Arizona as a university is clouding your mind. Arizona stans, give it up. Stop letting your college basketball bias cloud reality, he is not what you hoped for, he just isn't. And you are not getting Monty's son either lol.

 

[Phrazbit]

Your video is literally from 7 years ago. Ayton has been in the league for how long? And he barely knows any fundamentals. That’s a coaching fail.

He knew the fundamentals 2 years ago, he just doesn't apply them anymore.

 

[Superbone]

My guess is he comes out fired up, outta control, picks up three quick fouls and is a nonfactor again.

I'll take it. Better than what we've been getting.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

He knew the fundamentals 2 years ago, he just doesn't apply them anymore.

Yeah but CP3 was a tier one player. He basically fed him.

 

[Superbone]

He knew the fundamentals 2 years ago, he just doesn't apply them anymore.

He got that second contract he wondered how to get before he had played a game for us. Why do more than the minimum now?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm certainly not saying that Ayton is free from responsibility from his own lack of performance... you are imputing that.

I am saying that after five full seasons in the league with the same team and (mostly) the same coaches, if he is still not responding to their coaching, there is something fundamentally wrong with the coaching approach. At every level of coaching that I am aware of, if you have a player who isn't responding to the coach, the coach has a responsibility for the good of the team to either A) change how that player is being taught, B) discipline that player until they "get it," or C) failing all of that, remove that player from the team.

I (and you, and everyone else on this forum) are of course not privy to whether the Suns have ever attempted the first course of action. It certainly doesn't seem they have really ever done much of the second either. And the third remains to be seen... possibly this off season.

In any case, there is plenty of other evidence besides the case of Ayton that the coaching staff isn't great at imparting or managing other fundamentals for the team as a whole... team rebounding and elements of defense certainly jump out as particular examples. The Suns have had the advantage of great individual talent these last few years that has help obviate those shortcoming to get them to a certain point of success.

I am obviously no fan of this coaching staff, but I think at this point to place anything less than 90% of the blame on Ayton is blinding yourself to just how deeply flawed Ayton is in terms of bball IQ and b all heart.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

U of A fan? Ayton plays 6.6 height max there are plenty of guys that can guard him. I think many, maybe thousands of Dolphins are smarter than Ayton. And the declining university of Arizona as a university is clouding your mind. Arizona stans, give it up. Stop letting your college basketball bias cloud reality, he is not what you hoped for, he just isn't. And you are not getting Monty's son either lol.

This is a hilarious post. Anyone want to clue squid to my opinions of Ayton? “Arizona stan.” lol.

 

[BirdGangThing]

.

This is a hilarious post. Anyone want to clue squid to my opinions of Ayton? “Arizona stan.” lol.

My fav was when he called me KingsGang while insisting I wanted to put Kevin Durant in some corner

 

[Raindog]

I am obviously no fan of this coaching staff, but I think at this point to place anything less than 90% of the blame on Ayton is blinding yourself to just how deeply flawed Ayton is in terms of bball IQ and b all heart.

Of course Ayton is flawed in those ways. I am not defending him. But that also doesn't excuse the coaching staff from doing a better job of getting him to be productive. It's not an "either or" proposition.

The bottom line is if Ayton goes somewhere else next year and is still a bum, than we will know he's just a bum. If he goes somewhere else and emerges as something better, we likewise will know that the coaching here was to some degree holding him back. End of debate.

I guess everyone can place their bets at what that outcome will be. For my part, I wouldn't be surprised by either outcome.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Of course Ayton is flawed in those ways. I am not defending him. But that also doesn't excuse the coaching staff from doing a better job of getting him to be productive. It's not an "either or" proposition.

The bottom line is if Ayton goes somewhere else next year and is still a bum, than we will know he's just a bum. If he goes somewhere else and emerges as something better, we likewise will know that the coaching here was to some degree holding him back. End of debate.

I guess everyone can place their bets at what that outcome will be. For my part, I wouldn't be surprised by either outcome.

Agreed. But personally I would be surprised if he becomes a dawg. He might put up numbers on a bad team with more opportunity, but I would be surprised if any coach ends up unlocking anything resembling toughness, drive, or desire/effort.

 

[GatorAZ]

Best play if his career IMO:
.

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[BirdGangThing]

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[Chris_Sanders]

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Great personal accountability

 

[BirdGangThing]

Great personal accountability

Proud of the big guy tonight