The Ayton Plan

[Sparky16]

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Start Biz in beginning of qtrs and once in the bonus bring Jock so they dont just hack and send to the FT line. If DA had 1/2 the heart of Biz he would be awesome

 

[BirdGangThing]

If

Start Biz in beginning of qtrs and once in the bonus bring Jock so they dont just hack and send to the FT line. If DA had 1/2 the heart of Biz he would be awesome

I'm thinking Biz isn't 100% healthy and that it might be Ayton and Landale again tomorrow

 

[AzStevenCal]

If

I'm thinking Biz isn't 100% healthy and that it might be Ayton and Landale again tomorrow

He has arthritic knees and for the most part can't practice so yeah, he's never 100% healthy or 100% in game shape and hasn't been for many years. OTOH we probably don't get him on the cheap like we did if it weren't for those problem knees. When he's feeling good, he's a borderline starter level big man despite the fact his shooting range is about 6 inches.

 

[Dr. Jones]

100% serious request. Since the NFL draft.... It has become clear to me that we need a thread pinned to the top that we can go to when we need to cuss about this weak ass basketball player.

 

[95pro]

He has arthritic knees and for the most part can't practice so yeah, he's never 100% healthy or 100% in game shape and hasn't been for many years. OTOH we probably don't get him on the cheap like we did if it weren't for those problem knees. When he's feeling good, he's a borderline starter level big man despite the fact his shooting range is about 6 inches.

It’s funny how many times you’ve chimed in on his knees.

At the same time they can just double and sag off bizz the entire time he’s in.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It’s funny how many times you’ve chimed in on his knees.

At the same time they can just double and sag off bizz the entire time he’s in.

Yeah it's at least the 3rd or 4th time I've mentioned it but always in the same context when posters mention how he's moving or his lack of minutes. Arthritic knees like his don't get better, especially when you're a pro athlete.

If it weren't for the knees he'd still be fighting for a starting spot somewhere. It took him 5 or 6 years but his defense really opened eyes around the league during his season in Toronto which led to Orlando giving him a pretty big contract. And then the knees. He's been slow and ground based ever since and he's never had a shooting touch.

 

[BirdGangThing]

He has arthritic knees and for the most part can't practice so yeah, he's never 100% healthy or 100% in game shape and hasn't been for many years. OTOH we probably don't get him on the cheap like we did if it weren't for those problem knees. When he's feeling good, he's a borderline starter level big man despite the fact his shooting range is about 6 inches.

Plus I think that fall (which should've been an offensive foul on Jokic) did some damage, I think Biz was grabbing his shoulder when he was laying on the court

 

[AzStevenCal]

Plus I think that fall (which should've been an offensive foul on Jokic) did some damage, I think Biz was grabbing his shoulder when he was laying on the court

I think so too but this team never lets any information out about injuries until it's absolutely required so all we have is conjecture. We don't even really know to what degree his knees bother him from day to day, just the old information about it ruining his career several years back.

 

[overseascardfan]

It's apparent Ayton is not going to be a reliable third wheel this series unless DEN shuts down either Book or KD and they leave Ayton alone around the rim. I thought Durant's acquisition would help Ayton by taking opposing defenses focus away from him and Durant, Book and Paul could find him around rim so easy dunks and layups. Right now defenses can't stop Book and KD so until they are able to slow down one of them Ayton is not going to get many shot attempts. That still does not excuse him for his lack of rebounding and defense this series, he should really be focusing in those areas until offensive opportunities come his way but he looks like a guy who is hoping KD & Book can carry him and the rest of the team to a title.

The problem is if PHX is looking to trade him this offseason, teams are going to offer PHX scrubs based on Ayton's playoff performance and not his career numbers of 17 & 10 with 60% FG shooting. PHX would really benefit if Ayton could raise his trade value with a strong showing the rest of the playoffs but it remains to be seen if that will happen.

My concern is Ayton will pull a Mikal and become a force away from PHX but as long as PHX can get productive pieces in an Ayton trade I would be okay with him succeeding somewhere else because I don't think its going to happen here and the debate will begin on whether its Monty's offensive scheme or Ayton's lack of drive that was the issue.

I saw a trade proposal that got me a little intrigued but not sure why it would happen. Proposal was Ayton to HOU for Sengun, Kevin Porter and Jae'Sean Tate. Unless HOU ends up with Scoot Henderson instead of Wembayama then maybe but Porter and Sengun are two very good young pieces and I don't see HOU giving up them for Ayton and his contract. I guess it depends on whether they get the #1 pick in draft, if they do they should just take Big Vic and team him up with Porter, Smith and Sengun to have a nice core of youngsters to build with.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's apparent Ayton is not going to be a reliable third wheel this series unless DEN shuts down either Book or KD and they leave Ayton alone around the rim. I thought Durant's acquisition would help Ayton by taking opposing defenses focus away from him and Durant, Book and Paul could find him around rim so easy dunks and layups. Right now defenses can't stop Book and KD so until they are able to slow down one of them Ayton is not going to get many shot attempts. That still does not excuse him for his lack of rebounding and defense this series, he should really be focusing in those areas until offensive opportunities come his way but he looks like a guy who is hoping KD & Book can carry him and the rest of the team to a title.

The problem is if PHX is looking to trade him this offseason, teams are going to offer PHX scrubs based on Ayton's playoff performance and not his career numbers of 17 & 10 with 60% FG shooting. PHX would really benefit if Ayton could raise his trade value with a strong showing the rest of the playoffs but it remains to be seen if that will happen.

My concern is Ayton will pull a Mikal and become a force away from PHX but as long as PHX can get productive pieces in an Ayton trade I would be okay with him succeeding somewhere else because I don't think its going to happen here and the debate will begin on whether its Monty's offensive scheme or Ayton's lack of drive that was the issue.

I saw a trade proposal that got me a little intrigued but not sure why it would happen. Proposal was Ayton to HOU for Sengun, Kevin Porter and Jae'Sean Tate. Unless HOU ends up with Scoot Henderson instead of Wembayama then maybe but Porter and Sengun are two very good young pieces and I don't see HOU giving up them for Ayton and his contract. I guess it depends on whether they get the #1 pick in draft, if they do they should just take Big Vic and team him up with Porter, Smith and Sengun to have a nice core of youngsters to build with.

Hadn't heard that rumor but I do that deal in a heartbeat. They could even keep KPJ. Tate and Senqun alone would be an amazing return.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

It's apparent Ayton is not going to be a reliable third wheel this series unless DEN shuts down either Book or KD and they leave Ayton alone around the rim. I thought Durant's acquisition would help Ayton by taking opposing defenses focus away from him and Durant, Book and Paul could find him around rim so easy dunks and layups. Right now defenses can't stop Book and KD so until they are able to slow down one of them Ayton is not going to get many shot attempts. That still does not excuse him for his lack of rebounding and defense this series, he should really be focusing in those areas until offensive opportunities come his way but he looks like a guy who is hoping KD & Book can carry him and the rest of the team to a title.

The problem is if PHX is looking to trade him this offseason, teams are going to offer PHX scrubs based on Ayton's playoff performance and not his career numbers of 17 & 10 with 60% FG shooting. PHX would really benefit if Ayton could raise his trade value with a strong showing the rest of the playoffs but it remains to be seen if that will happen.

My concern is Ayton will pull a Mikal and become a force away from PHX but as long as PHX can get productive pieces in an Ayton trade I would be okay with him succeeding somewhere else because I don't think its going to happen here and the debate will begin on whether its Monty's offensive scheme or Ayton's lack of drive that was the issue.

I saw a trade proposal that got me a little intrigued but not sure why it would happen. Proposal was Ayton to HOU for Sengun, Kevin Porter and Jae'Sean Tate. Unless HOU ends up with Scoot Henderson instead of Wembayama then maybe but Porter and Sengun are two very good young pieces and I don't see HOU giving up them for Ayton and his contract. I guess it depends on whether they get the #1 pick in draft, if they do they should just take Big Vic and team him up with Porter, Smith and Sengun to have a nice core of youngsters to build with.

You "concern" is called the sunk cost fallacy. Sometimes, you have to look hard at a player, see if he fits the direction of the whole and make a decision. Sunk cost fallacy is common and natural for people, but it is a logical fallacy.

There is no way you can say Ayton won't have value, you are looking at this from a cognitive biased perspective. There are bad GM, teams that are cheap need to meet the 90 percent threshold to get tax money, different organizations value players differently, some just need to get their tax money, some may actually want him. Atlanta pretty much wants to get rid of Trey Young, now to us that may seem weird and he would fetch a ransom if you don't watch him every day, but his flaws are hurting the team and Murray is the better player.

This is why you do this thing called negotiations, you don't act desperate, it was one game, he is still young, teams might value him a lot and I do think the Suns can get a good return on him. Now do I trust Youtube Jones? No, I think we need a better GM that does better negotiations, I think he is a loser so you may have a point if Jones makes the trade, it probably will be bad. However, I am not sure Jones will have as much power post Sarver. Ishbia is going to start changing things, these CEO types always want their guys.

 

[Absolute Zero]

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[overseascardfan]

Hadn't heard that rumor but I do that deal in a heartbeat. They could even keep KPJ. Tate and Senqun alone would be an amazing return.

Yeah, can't find it anymore. HOU fans would riot if that deal went down. I think PHX is going to be stuck with his contract for the next 3 years. Any team interested if going to offer bad players on bad contracts in return. PHX best bet is to hope he puts up his usual regular season numbers and trade him at deadline.

 

[82CardsGrad]

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I really like Jock. Hope he sticks with the Suns.
And his comments speak to the tightness and strong culture on this team. Most teams wouldn’t feed into the attacks being levied against a fellow teammate. The bonds that are made on teams are incredibly strong.
Still, it’s clear Monty has developed an amazing culture within the Suns locker room.

 

[az jam]

Ayton won't be on the Suns next season. The only questions is what can the Sun realistically get for him?

 

[Absolute Zero]

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[elindholm]

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This is terrific from Landale, but no, Ayton was not putting up 30/20 games on the regular for a month. In fact he did not have a single 30/20 game this season (and maybe not before that either, but I didn't feel like looking it up). The closest he came this year was 29/21 against Utah on Nov. 26, which is a great line -- but that was his high for the season, not something he ever approached doing regularly over any stretch of time.

 

[overseascardfan]

You "concern" is called the sunk cost fallacy. Sometimes, you have to look hard at a player, see if he fits the direction of the whole and make a decision. Sunk cost fallacy is common and natural for people, but it is a logical fallacy.

There is no way you can say Ayton won't have value, you are looking at this from a cognitive biased perspective. There are bad GM, teams that are cheap need to meet the 90 percent threshold to get tax money, different organizations value players differently, some just need to get their tax money, some may actually want him. Atlanta pretty much wants to get rid of Trey Young, now to us that may seem weird and he would fetch a ransom if you don't watch him every day, but his flaws are hurting the team and Murray is the better player.

This is why you do this thing called negotiations, you don't act desperate, it was one game, he is still young, teams might value him a lot and I do think the Suns can get a good return on him. Now do I trust Youtube Jones? No, I think we need a better GM that does better negotiations, I think he is a loser so you may have a point if Jones makes the trade, it probably will be bad. However, I am not sure Jones will have as much power post Sarver. Ishbia is going to start changing things, these CEO types always want their guys.

I guess we'll see how Ayton responds after benching. If he comes back motivated and uses it as fuel to dominate then great but if he continues to dog it then I think management is going to decide he's not worth the trouble and move him. It's not like Ayton is an All-Pro or All Star so I wouldn't expect teams to give up much and Jones isn't a master negotiator, what he gave up for Durant showed BRK front office dictated the terms and PHX folded because Ishbia wanted Durant no matter what.

 

[dscher]

Ayton won't be on the Suns next season. The only questions is what can the Sun realistically get for him?

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[djm75]

Took some screenshots of Ayton on offense in Game 3, what is this that he’s doing?

 

[Chaplin]

On some of those he is waiting for Jokic to go help, so he can pop out under the basket. I think he’s out of bounds because he doesn’t want to get a 3-second.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I guess we'll see how Ayton responds after benching. If he comes back motivated and uses it as fuel to dominate then great but if he continues to dog it then I think management is going to decide he's not worth the trouble and move him. It's not like Ayton is an All-Pro or All Star so I wouldn't expect teams to give up much and Jones isn't a master negotiator, what he gave up for Durant showed BRK front office dictated the terms and PHX folded because Ishbia wanted Durant no matter what.

My guess is he comes out fired up, outta control, picks up three quick fouls and is a nonfactor again.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Took some screenshots of Ayton on offense in Game 3, what is this that he’s doing?

He’s spacing the court by standing out of bounds and ceding uncontested rebounding position to jokic. It’s a brilliant strategy . . . if you’re brain dead.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

On some of those he is waiting for Jokic to go help, so he can pop out under the basket. I think he’s out of bounds because he doesn’t want to get a 3-second.

Chap, I’d like to think you’re right. But I just can’t credit a guy whose basketball IQ is so poor with having that level of strategic self-awareness.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Chap, I’d like to think you’re right. But I just can’t credit a guy whose basketball IQ is so poor with having that level of strategic self-awareness.

Yeah plus it wouldn't look so good for his BBIQ if that was why he was standing there. To stop a 3 second count the player must put both feet on the court outside of the key. And it's a violation for any player to willingly leave the court during play.