The Ayton Plan

[TJ]

He is getting ripped across the league. You should hear some of the national sports radio shows. I was flipping and I heard it come up at least 3 times.

This is all on Sarver. He had an opportunity to quell this reputation and he subesequently crapped the bed.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Oh, and I wouldn't trade Ayton for KAT straight up. The thought of Ayton plus is just disgusting.

 

[GatorAZ]

Dave King is off his rocker.

There have been some bleeding heart pro player takes the last few weeks. You’d believe Ayton sacrificed a kidney playing the role of the third best player on the team.

 

[GatorAZ]

I thoroughly agree with this although I hope we find out what Ayton was offered.

I don’t have problem with them not extending him but we haven’t heard any details regarding what WAS actually offered. I said I would’ve offered 5/$150 and negotiated from there. If they offered nothing and just want the cheaper RFA max than it’s a mistake. Even Windhorst’s story said they had the idea of a 3-4 year deal but didn’t actually offer it. Even if you don’t want him for the max you have to draw up some kind of significant contract.

 

[TJ]

Oh, and I wouldn't trade Ayton for KAT straight up. The thought of Ayton plus is just disgusting.

KAT is just not a winning player and has no desire to play defense

 

[TJ]

Ultimately, Ayton is the only one who will decide whether or not he stays here. We all know he wants to be here, but Sarver so far is unwilling to pay his market value. It's completely understandable that he's pissed, and that he feels disrespected.

Playing chicken with a great young player with the potential to be a superstar is just so dumb on so many levels. Between creating a major distraction, to bringing back fear of past sins, to taking the shine off quick from a finals appearance, it's just a crappy way to go into the season.

Here's hoping it all works out, but I wish we weren't held hostage by an owner that made decisions based on fiscal responsibility, not winning a championship.

David Kevin articulates the Ayton situation, and the cap in general here - https://thefourpointplay.substack.com/p/vol3-iss5-projecting-forward

Well worth a read.

Well said

 

[Western Font]

I wanted the Suns to draft Ayton, have always been patient with him, think he still has huge upside, and very much want him signed … but he could have silenced any doubts on his own. And the suspension definitely didn’t help.

I don’t care much about media takes because a lot of guys were calling him a bust last year. A lot of this is just taking (deserved) shots at Sarver. But even so I think we’re more sensitive to the idea of the Suns being a laughingstock than it sometimes warrants because I’ve lived in other NBA cities the whole time Sarver has owned the team and it’s rarely as specific as we sometimes believe.

Anyway, no one here is wrong in their concerns (at least those not on ignore) and I hope next year he’s gotten paid and there IS no doubt.

 

[Yuma]

The theme was going around yesterday that if Ayton hadn't sacificed his offensive game for the good of the team by playing defense, setting screens, rebounding, etc., he would have been offered more money like the other max players who had better stats.

Ayton's agent and his entourage is going to be in his ear on this. On the flip side, I think it's a bad signal to the team to ask a player to play a certain way, and when he does, you don't reward him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ayton's agent and his entourage is going to be in his ear on this. On the flip side, I think it's a bad signal to the team to ask a player to play a certain way, and when he does, you don't reward him.

Dude... the entire league is gonna be in his ear about this. If you think guys on the floor a) won’t be trying to get in his head and b) trying to sell him to leave, you loco.

 

[Yuma]

Amick also mentions how the league’s collective bargaining agreement states that each team cannot have more than two rookie designated max extensions, so adding Ayton to Devin Booker’s max could cripple the Suns’ ability to add a third player on a similar five-year deal.

So the only guy I think is close to being able to get a max is Cam Johnson if he balls all out this season. I know that's a big IF. However, if this is a concern, it has to be Cam Johnson as the guy who they would be leaving this option open for.

 

[Chaplin]

Ayton's agent and his entourage is going to be in his ear on this. On the flip side, I think it's a bad signal to the team to ask a player to play a certain way, and when he does, you don't reward him.

What are you talking about?? You act like Ayton is some offensive superhero that held back.

You have to face the facts, he has some limitations. I think he should have gotten paid, but I can see why the Suns don't think he's worth $40m a year for 5 years.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Athletic has a great article where they talk to James Jones about this.

Suns GM James Jones on Deandre Ayton contract extension talks: ‘We didn’t have real negotiations’

An exclusive interview with Suns GM James Jones, who explains the reason a deal could not be reached with Deandre Ayton.

theathletic.com

It clears up some, makes some things a bit murkier but it's a good read. I believe JJ on this. He has no reason to lie and he makes it clear that Ayton's team came in wanting the full on 5 year max and would settle for nothing else. He even mentions the 3 or 4 year max but says they weren't receptive to anything but 5 years, full max.

It also highlights how Booker got the full on rookie max and if Ayton did also then until those deals are done they can not acquire anyone else on a rookie max. Which is what stopped the Celtics from being able to bid on Anthony Davis when he was dealt. They had Jayson Tatum and Kyrie Irving already and needed to either trade one or wait until the offseason until Kyrie opted out so they could sign him to a new deal, one that wasn't a designated rookie max extension, because league rules limit a team to only being allowed 2 players to be on a team with designated rookie max extensions at one time, whether its year 1 or year 5 of those.

 

[Proximo]

The theme was going around yesterday that if Ayton hadn't sacificed his offensive game for the good of the team by playing defense, setting screens, rebounding, etc., he would have been offered more money like the other max players who had better stats.

That is ridiculous.

Every time the suns have tried to run offense through Ayton it does not work. He has no low post moves, all he ends up doing is pulling up for a 15 ft jumper he makes 35% of the time. And that's if he can catch the inbound pass without turning it over.

I have been waiting for Ayton to show something offensively beyond the lob and putback game, but he just is not efficent at anything else.

I am worried he may start taking a bunch of bad shots now to try and prove he is worthy of a max deal. To me this is the worst case scenerio of this non extension.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What are you talking about?? You act like Ayton is some offensive superhero that held back.

You have to face the facts, he has some limitations. I think he should have gotten paid, but I can see why the Suns don't think he's worth $40m a year for 5 years.

if he made that amount, that would mean he would have made ALL-NBA teams. The 207 was with escalators.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That is ridiculous.

Every time the suns have tried to run offense through Ayton it does not work. He has no low post moves, all he ends up doing is pulling up for a 15 ft jumper he makes 35% of the time. And that's if he can catch the inbound pass without turning it over.

I have been waiting for Ayton to show something offensively beyond the lob and putback game, but he just is not efficent at anything else.

I am worried he may start taking a bunch of bad shots now to try and prove he is worthy of a max deal. To me this is the worst case scenerio of this non extension.

that is another thing I'm worried about here as well.

i really hope he took these 2.5 months to work on adding SOMETHING to his game. As much as I think it was the wrong decision not to extend him, I can freely admit he ain't exactly a Kyler Murray type #1 pick, who grows by leaps and bounds in every successive season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ayton's agent and his entourage is going to be in his ear on this. On the flip side, I think it's a bad signal to the team to ask a player to play a certain way, and when he does, you don't reward him.

That sounds like you're been reading too much Dave King, short of TJ he's DA's most ardent fan.

We wasted so many possessions because Ayton couldn't establish position down low and couldn't hang on to the ball when we fed him and when everything did go right, all too often he wouldn't go with authority so he'd get blocked or shut down forcing us to reset. We became a much better team when we decided "baby steps" for DA.

Telling him to focus on defense, picks and rebounds saved us but it saved him too. We'd probably be arguing over whether we should even re-sign him if we had continued trying to make him a focal point of the offense.

 

[Hoop Head]

Here's a quote from The Athletic interview with James Jones, its just one question but I believe it is an important one and also is the one most people here would be most interested in....


What about the general idea that Robert is being cheap here? That’s a reputational thing that has certainly been part of the discussion. How have you seen that perspective?

It’s inaccurate. If you just look at the moves we’ve made, it’s inaccurate. It’s just not (true). If you look at all the moves we’ve made, and the things we’ve done, from the practice facility to the roster itself to acquiring Chris Paul, going and acquiring Jae Crowder, extending the guys that we have, that’s not accurate.
When you boil this thing down, it’s disappointing that we didn’t get a deal done. It’s disappointing that it was a five-year-rookie-max-or-bust, or nothing to talk about, and we just didn’t have real substantial conversations. And that (idea that a) lack of a deal is a signal that we aren’t committed to Deandre or interested in continuing, that we don’t believe in him, that becomes the narrative. But it’s the furthest from the truth.

 

[Finito]

This was the first topic on the Windhorst podcast. Everybody pretty much scratching there heads wondering why you wouldn’t pay him. Phoenix offered him 4 years 130 and Ayton wanted the 5 year 175.

Said he talked to both camps and they were never close. Also pointed out that the TV deal is going to expire and years 4/5 would look like a bargain for players that just signed the max.

Also noted that Paul and Shamet both have non guaranteed 3rd years and they wondered why Phoenix was kind of keeping everything in that range.

They brought up the designated player rule. But make no mistake Phoenix isn’t going to go after another big Star and pay that kind of money

 

[Yuma]

One of the key points on 98.7 radio, is they are saying the other Suns players are not screaming about this. I know Bridges said he wanted Ayton to stay, but he didn't mention anything about Ayton should have got the max.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This was the first topic on the Windhorst podcast. Everybody pretty much scratching there heads wondering why you wouldn’t pay him. Phoenix offered him 4 years 130 and Ayton wanted the 5 year 175.

Said he talked to both camps and they were never close. Also pointed out that the TV deal is going to expire and years 4/5 would look like a bargain for players that just signed the max.

Also noted that Paul and Shamet both have non guaranteed 3rd years and they wondered why Phoenix was kind of keeping everything in that range.

They brought up the designated player rule. But make no mistake Phoenix isn’t going to go after another big Star and pay that kind of money

For clarification, is that your opinion or the opinion of Windhorst and company?

 

[Hoop Head]

This was the first topic on the Windhorst podcast. Everybody pretty much scratching there heads wondering why you wouldn’t pay him. Phoenix offered him 4 years 130 and Ayton wanted the 5 year 175.

Said he talked to both camps and they were never close. Also pointed out that the TV deal is going to expire and years 4/5 would look like a bargain for players that just signed the max.

Also noted that Paul and Shamet both have non guaranteed 3rd years and they wondered why Phoenix was kind of keeping everything in that range.

They brought up the designated player rule. But make no mistake Phoenix isn’t going to go after another big Star and pay that kind of money

The worst part is how there are so many narratives that can be easily spun out of this situation. It makes the situation a mess. I can see each side but I really don't think the Suns fully understood just how bad this could look because there are dozens of narratives being pushed right now. At best they look shortsighted and worst they look incompetent. It's not a good look.

 

[GatorAZ]

One of the key points on 98.7 radio, is they are saying the other Suns players are not screaming about this. I know Bridges said he wanted Ayton to stay, but he didn't mention anything about Ayton should have got the max.

There’s unwritten rules about talking about other player’s pockets. I know CP3 talked about “getting a bag” but that was more hyping up DA after a great game.

 

[Hoop Head]

One of the key points on 98.7 radio, is they are saying the other Suns players are not screaming about this. I know Bridges said he wanted Ayton to stay, but he didn't mention anything about Ayton should have got the max.

I believe that has to do with Ayton's camp demanding no less than the 5 year max. James Jones said if it was X amount of money annually then they'd be done because they wanted to do 3 or 4 years but Ayton's camp wasn't receptive to anything short of 5 years at max money. No one else got 5 years, why should they care if Ayton did?

 

[GatorAZ]

The Athletic has a great article where they talk to James Jones about this.

Suns GM James Jones on Deandre Ayton contract extension talks: ‘We didn’t have real negotiations’

An exclusive interview with Suns GM James Jones, who explains the reason a deal could not be reached with Deandre Ayton.

theathletic.com

It clears up some, makes some things a bit murkier but it's a good read. I believe JJ on this. He has no reason to lie and he makes it clear that Ayton's team came in wanting the full on 5 year max and would settle for nothing else. He even mentions the 3 or 4 year max but says they weren't receptive to anything but 5 years, full max.

It also highlights how Booker got the full on rookie max and if Ayton did also then until those deals are done they can not acquire anyone else on a rookie max. Which is what stopped the Celtics from being able to bid on Anthony Davis when he was dealt. They had Jayson Tatum and Kyrie Irving already and needed to either trade one or wait until the offseason until Kyrie opted out so they could sign him to a new deal, one that wasn't a designated rookie max extension, because league rules limit a team to only being allowed 2 players to be on a team with designated rookie max extensions at one time, whether its year 1 or year 5 of those.

While the details are true that comes off as spin to me.

 

[Hoop Head]

While the details are true that comes off as spin to me.

It could be. Jones seems adamant that the hold up was years and not annual pay. They would have gone for 3 or 4 years but 5 wasn't what they wanted and Ayton's team refused to discuss less than 5.