The Ayton Plan

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And hasn’t he made strides?especially in the role Monty wants him to play.

You mean like drawing contact and fouls? Something we have specifically heard Monty state? Or playing with force? Not much, no.

 

[Finito]

You mean like drawing contact and fouls? Something we have specifically heard Monty state? Or playing with force? Not much, no.

He’s not asked to be an offensive go to guy in this role. Even Monty has said that.

Or maybe the entire way he plays defense has changed and improved? But no credit for that right. Is he a finished product? No are we two games into the season? Yes.

 

[Hoop Head]

He’s not asked to be an offensive go to guy in this role. Even Monty has said that.

Or maybe the entire way he plays defense has changed and improved? But no credit for that right. Is he a finished product? No are we two games into the season? Yes.

There isn't a single person here who doesn't give him credit for improving as a defender. Why do you bring that up whenever his overall ability and progression is questioned? Find a new way to deflect from valid criticisms of his game and development.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton was aggressive particularly early in the game but he has trouble finishing plays. We are not there yet, but at some point in time we may have to accept this is the player he is offensively and be happy with his defense and rebounding.

 

[Hoop Head]

Ayton was aggressive particularly early in the game but he has trouble finishing plays. We are not there yet, but at some point in time we may have to accept this is the player he is offensively and be happy with his defense and rebounding.

I can be happy with that if he can accept the player he is isn't a max player. 1 strong quarter followed by mediocrity isn't worth max money.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can be happy with that if he can accept the player he is isn't a max player. 1 strong quarter followed by mediocrity isn't worth max money.

Ayton has given no indication he is a max player thus far. He is better than most centers and he is valuable to the team so I hope the Suns can keep him. One can only hope another team doesn't pay him like one in restricted free agency. Ayton is probably rated somewhere after the top 4-5 centers.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He’s not asked to be an offensive go to guy in this role. Even Monty has said that.

Or maybe the entire way he plays defense has changed and improved? But no credit for that right. Is he a finished product? No are we two games into the season? Yes.

Lol no literally every person on this board acknowledges he’s grown defensively. But some posters have gone overboard in regards to his perimeter defense. Just last night each time he was covering on the perimeter the player drained an easy 3 in his face because he plays so far off. And that’s been the norm for quite some time. Most offensive players just drop semi-open 3s on him consistently now. Is he Gobert out there? No. That’s why he couldn’t be played off the court by the clippers in the same manner. But he’s not a perimeter defensive dynamo like some on here would have us believe.

And improvement on that end doesn’t negate lack of improvement - in areas explicitly called out in public by his head coach - on offense. Very obviously he’s failing in that regard.

 

[Western Font]

Despite my pretty unwavering support for Ayton I’ve always found him to make awkward quotes about his play and ambition that seem at odds with who he is on the court a lot of the time. And at odds with what I actually appreciate about his play. I really wish he and his camp had been open to fewer than five years (and that the Suns had made a compelling case for it with an offer).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Despite my pretty unwavering support for Ayton I’ve always found him to make awkward quotes about his play and ambition that seem at odds with who he is on the court a lot of the time. And at odds with what I actually appreciate about his play. I really wish he and his camp had been open to fewer than five years (and that the Suns had made a compelling case for it with an offer).

Agreed. In fact, it still seems odd that he wouldn’t want to become a free agent a year earlier to reap the benefits of a new tv contract.

 

[Finito]

There isn't a single person here who doesn't give him credit for improving as a defender. Why do you bring that up whenever his overall ability and progression is questioned? Find a new way to deflect from valid criticisms of his game and development.

Still

 

[GatorAZ]

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[sdscard4]

KAT would be a perfect fit.

 

[az jam]

They should trade Ayton.

 

[boisesuns]

Seems to me a max player should have consistency and be able to dominate. I know more maxes are being handed out now, but it seems like percentage of total team production should be high to warrant the pay.

 

[Hoop Head]

Seems to me a max player should have consistency and be able to dominate. I know more maxes are being handed out now, but it seems like percentage of total team production should be high to warrant the pay.

Just because some other teams max players they shouldn't doesn't mean the Suns should. It seems the most popular point to maxing Ayton is pointing at MPJ's max in Denver. He's not worth the max he got and that shouldn't decide Ayton's salary. You can always find a lesser player making more money in the NBA. One player doesn't set the market on all free agents, regardless of position.

 

[Covert Rain]

Just because some other teams max players they shouldn't doesn't mean the Suns should. It seems the most popular point to maxing Ayton is pointing at MPJ's max in Denver. He's not worth the max he got and that shouldn't decide Ayton's salary. You can always find a lesser player making more money in the NBA. One player doesn't set the market on all free agents, regardless of position.

This is true but the Suns ultimately need to decide if they are willing to pay market for him when the time comes as well. The reality is the Suns might have no choice to pay him market unless they can somehow pull off a move to get someone of equal value to replace him. It takes one team willing to offer him the max and the market is set.

 

[Hoop Head]

This is true but the Suns ultimately need to decide if they are willing to pay market for him when the time comes as well. The reality is the Suns might have no choice to pay him market unless they can somehow pull off a move to get someone of equal value to replace him. It takes one team willing to offer him the max and the market is set.

Which is fine. It seems like we'd be willing to match since they wanted to get a 3 or 4 year deal done, which is the longest deal he can get in free agency. So we hold all the cards this summer because we can match any offer he receives. There is no excuse for letting him walk with nothing to show for it. Even if the offer sheet isn't that team friendly, like a 3 year deal with a 2 year option, they need to match or offer a more compelling offer.

 

[Covert Rain]

Which is fine. It seems like we'd be willing to match since they wanted to get a 3 or 4 year deal done, which is the longest deal he can get in free agency. So we hold all the cards this summer because we can match any offer he receives. There is no excuse for letting him walk with nothing to show for it. Even if the offer sheet isn't that team friendly, like a 3 year deal with a 2 year option, they need to match or offer a more compelling offer.

I don't they had any intention of getting a deal done at all but you are right there is no excuse for not getting something in return. If another team offers max the Suns are going to have a decision to make.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't they had any intention of getting a deal done at all but you are right there is no excuse for not getting something in return. If another team offers max the Suns are going to have a decision to make.

I actually think it depends on how good the team is this season. If they are middling and a first round exit and last year looks like some kind of Covid fluke and Ayton looks like he has for the first three games all year, I don’t know how you resign him to a RFA four year max offer sheet. If the guy can’t even bring a little more to the table in a contract year, signing him to a four year deal at MAX money might make him a negative asset... an albatross contract that no one wants.

If we ARE competitive again and Paul looks like the NBA’s Tom Brady but we fall short and are one piece away, then you probably sign Ayton if someone throws a four year deal at him simply because chances like these just don’t come too often.

Time will tell here.

 

[Yuma]

I think the whole thing went down as the Suns knew they weren't going to pay max, Ayton's side said five year max or nothing, the Suns felt that let them off the hook to have to negotiate. No need to make an offer since they weren't willing to go with a 5 year max deal.

I find it interesting afterwards the Suns said they wanted to keep the option open for a second max player on the squad. Very interesting since maybe the only piece they could trade of value is arguably Ayton, since they are not trading Booker, Paul, etc.

 

[Raindog]

Ayton at any type of max deal will not be an albatross, not at this juncture of his career and as long as he is healthy. It's not like giving a nearly 30 year old Blake Griffin a supermax deal.

Ayton is still very young, has a ton of upside, and has already shown high end production, even if he seems unmotivated to sustain it. So even on a max deal, he is is still eminently tradeable for real assets if the Suns become frustrated and decide they want to move on from him in the next few years. And believe me, some other team will believe he is worth the risk, such as it is.

Letting him walk for nothing would be something only a franchise as idiotic as the Suns have historically been in the Sarver era would do.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton at any type of max deal will not be an albatross, not at this juncture of his career and as long as he is healthy. It's not like giving a nearly 30 year old Blake Griffin a supermax deal.

Ayton is still very young, has a ton of upside, and has already shown high end production, even if he seems unmotivated to sustain it. So even on a max deal, he is is still eminently tradeable for real assets if the Suns become frustrated and decide they want to move on from him in the next few years. And believe me, some other team will believe he is worth the risk, such as it is.

Letting him walk for nothing would be something only a franchise as idiotic as the Suns have historically been in the Sarver era would do.

I think it's very possible Ayton will be a borderline star player his entire career. Meaning that you might have to overspend to get him but yet there will be a drop off to the next tier down for that position.

 

[Hoop Head]

Something to consider, had the Suns offered a 5 year max extension this last offseason then they couldn't trade Ayton at all this season or next. That's a commitment I can understand their reluctance to make. Going forward all options are available. They only have a short period where they can't trade him if he's signed to a 4 year max next summer. They could deal him by December of the next season, only being stuck with him for a short period of time.

Maybe that played a big role in not offering the 5 year max. If they're not positive he's a franchise guy then being forced to ride it out for 2 seasons, while his trade value goes down, isn't very attractive.


A team can't trade a player with more than 4 years of salary owed to them, Ayton would be owed 6 with a max extension. Those rules were changed during the last CBA to keep players from forcing sign and trades so if they wanted that home town money and length the only way to get it is to stick with their home team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think the whole thing went down as the Suns knew they weren't going to pay max, Ayton's side said five year max or nothing, the Suns felt that let them off the hook to have to negotiate. No need to make an offer since they weren't willing to go with a 5 year max deal.

I find it interesting afterwards the Suns said they wanted to keep the option open for a second max player on the squad. Very interesting since maybe the only piece they could trade of value is arguably Ayton, since they are not trading Booker, Paul, etc.

I don't know that they were looking to be let off the hook but IMO the stupid pills were all being swallowed by Ayton's people.

Unless DA is just playing for one large contract and then quitting or mailing it in from then on, a 3 or 4 year max would have cost him the long shot chance of earning the rookie extension super max of 30% on this next deal but would have allowed him to reach that true 35% super max deal early. Barring a major injury during the second contract that's much better for the player than signing that full 5 year extension they demanded.

As it is, the Suns are still in the driver's seat. They can sign him to a max this year and for the length of that deal there will be no risk of having him earn more than 25% of the cap. DA could well end up with the super max after this upcoming 3 or 4 year deal but giving out the true super max when your team is already put together is much more championship friendly than paying it when your team still needs a major piece.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Something to consider, had the Suns offered a 5 year max extension this last offseason then they couldn't trade Ayton at all this season or next. That's a commitment I can understand their reluctance to make. Going forward all options are available. They only have a short period where they can't trade him if he's signed to a 4 year max next summer. They could deal him by December of the next season, only being stuck with him for a short period of time.

Maybe that played a big role in not offering the 5 year max. If they're not positive he's a franchise guy then being forced to ride it out for 2 seasons, while his trade value goes down, isn't very attractive.


A team can't trade a player with more than 4 years of salary owed to them, Ayton would be owed 6 with a max extension. Those rules were changed during the last CBA to keep players from forcing sign and trades so if they wanted that home town money and length the only way to get it is to stick with their home team.

I agree with all this but isn't there something else at play here if we sign him by matching an offer next summer?