The Ayton Plan

[Hoop Head]

Unless we win a title then I don't see Ayton getting 5 years. That time came and went. I can't blame them much in that regard either. He'll get max money but max years wont happen.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Unless we win a title then I don't see Ayton getting 5 years. That time came and went. I can't blame them much in that regard either. He'll get max money but max years wont happen.

I think it's in our best interest to lock him up for 5 years. As I understand it he can no longer qualify for the rookie extension super max so he'd be limited to 25% of the cap.

Ayton's camp will likely want 3 or 4 year deal (with player options) so that they can take advantage sooner of the next huge tv increase, also hoping that he'll qualify for the 35% max on his next contract. Which, despite the way DA and the team have looked so far, isn't out of the question for him.

IMO we don't need to duplicate our finals run of last season nor does Ayton need to substantially increase his stats to work his way into a super max after his next deal. Some team success and a little more consistency should be enough to put him on one of the All NBA teams. Of course if we really bomb this year all bets are off.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think it's in our best interest to lock him up for 5 years. As I understand it he can no longer qualify for the rookie extension super max so he'd be limited to 25% of the cap.

Ayton's camp will likely want 3 or 4 year deal (with player options) so that they can take advantage sooner of the next huge tv increase, also hoping that he'll qualify for the 35% max on his next contract. Which, despite the way DA and the team have looked so far, isn't out of the question for him.

IMO we don't need to duplicate our finals run of last season nor does Ayton need to substantially increase his stats to work his way into a super max after his next deal. Some team success and a little more consistency should be enough to put him on one of the All NBA teams. Of course if we really bomb this year all bets are off.

He can qualify for the 30% max still if he hits the qualifiers this season, All NBA, MVP or DPOY, but I don't see that happening.

It seems the years were the hold up and there is no real reason to bend and offer 5 this summer when we wouldn't do that last offseason. The most he can get elsewhere is 4 and we can match that to keep him, whether he wants us to or not. I don't see that being an issue either. If he asks we don't match we don't need to abide by his wishes. Teams have gone against requests in the past. Unless he really tanks his value this year though I can't see us refusing to match. We can always deal him.

 

[Muggz]

I don't give a **** what he "qualifies" for.

Until he starts playing as good as he talks I honestly don't care anymore. Why give a Max contract to someone whos numbers can be replicated by Javale McGee or Frank Kaminski?
And yes I just said that, give Frank the Tank 30 min a game and I bet the farm he beats Aytons numbers NP.

Its time to put up or shut up. Earn your contract or be soft and tall.
I'm done with this ****.



This message brought to you by Vodka and Banana Hammock platinum flower. Ill be ok

 

[AzStevenCal]

He can qualify for the 30% max still if he hits the qualifiers this season, All NBA, MVP or DPOY, but I don't see that happening.

It seems the years were the hold up and there is no real reason to bend and offer 5 this summer when we wouldn't do that last offseason. The most he can get elsewhere is 4 and we can match that to keep him, whether he wants us to or not. I don't see that being an issue either. If he asks we don't match we don't need to abide by his wishes. Teams have gone against requests in the past. Unless he really tanks his value this year though I can't see us refusing to match. We can always deal him.

Are you sure? I thought the only way to get 30% was on a designated rookie extension which only happens at the deadline just prior to their 4th season?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Until he starts playing as good as he talks I honestly don't care anymore. Why give a Max contract to someone whos numbers can be replicated by Javale McGee or Frank Kaminski?
And yes I just said that give Frank the Tank 30 min a game and I bet the farm he beats Aytons numbers NP.

Its time to put up or shut up. Earn your contract or be soft and tall.

That will probably never happen. I believe that he thinks showing that he can dominate is the same thing as actually dominating. I hope it's not the case but I suspect we're going to have to settle for a player that plays solid defense, dominates offensively infrequently and doesn't usually hurt you the rest of the time.

When the team is playing well he's a critical part of our defense and an important part of our offense even though he doesn't create his own shots. Points are important but efficiency is also important and he can really shine in that area even if he's only getting us 15 points or so. And if he's still doing his job on defense, we can be a contender. That wouldn't be the case if we were starting Javale and certainly not if we were starting Frank.

 

[Muggz]

That will probably never happen. I believe that he thinks showing that he can dominate is the same thing as actually dominating. I hope it's not the case but I suspect we're going to have to settle for a player that plays solid defense, dominates offensively infrequently and doesn't usually hurt you the rest of the time.

When the team is playing well he's a critical part of our defense and an important part of our offense even though he doesn't create his own shots. Points are important but efficiency is also important and he can really shine in that area even if he's only getting us 15 points or so. And if he's still doing his job on defense, we can be a contender. That wouldn't be the case if we were starting Javale and certainly not if we were starting Frank.

At least you know what you're getting when Frank and Javale are on the floor. Watch how much smoother it is when they are on the court.
Yes DA is better than both of course. But how much better? REALLY? 100 mil? 70 mil? 10 mil?

There's a reason most teams wont blow their load on a center in todays NBA. And unless you're a generational center I get it. (DA is not that)
Yes DA is a good defender.
Give Frank or Javale those mins look at the numbers then get back to me about how Ayton is the game changer.
I'll wait.

 

[Muggz]

Don't get me wrong. I Love DA and DO think he is an integral part of this team and would be devastated if we somehow lost him.
I guess I just expected a bit more from him.
To me it seems so easy to dunk the piss out of the ball but WTF do I know, maybe the awkward layup is the way to go.

 

[Hoop Head]

Are you sure? I thought the only way to get 30% was on a designated rookie extension which only happens at the deadline just prior to their 4th season?

No, it can still be applied because he hasn't signed an extension yet. Whatever deal he gets next summer is still an extension, technically. The main thing is hitting those achievements puts the Derrick Rose Rule into effect and then he's eligible for the higher max from that point forward.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No, it can still be applied because he hasn't signed an extension yet. Whatever deal he gets next summer is still an extension, technically. The main thing is hitting those achievements puts the Derrick Rose Rule into effect and then he's eligible for the higher max from that point forward.

I'll admit I get confused trying to make sense of it. I have read that the Derrick Rose rule is possible through the 7th season yet I've also read that the designated rookie extension only applies if they signed an extension prior to their 4th season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

At least you know what you're getting when Frank and Javale are on the floor. Watch how much smoother it is when they are on the court.
Yes DA is better than both of course. But how much better? REALLY? 100 mil? 70 mil? 10 mil?

There's a reason most teams wont blow their load on a center in todays NBA. And unless you're a generational center I get it. (DA is not that)
Yes DA is a good defender.
Give Frank or Javale those mins look at the numbers then get back to me about how Ayton is the game changer.
I'll wait.

The problem is we are talking about a player entering their first non-rookie contract. Look around the league and you'll see that's the point in a player's career where it's common to pay not just based on how they've played but for how their game might improve over the life of the contract. After this contract, it's more about performance than potential.

So yeah, we could let him walk or trade him for peanuts because we don't think he's quite worth the max but I promise we're all going to be very disappointed if we have to watch a full season of Frank or Javale playing DA's role.

 

[boisesuns]

his offensive game improved a lot, but how much of that was due to CP3 pushing him and finding good opportunities in the regular offensive flow? When he has to create stuff on his own he’s still not very polished. Are his flashes due to extra motivation from the other guys, or can he do that on his own every night?

there’s no guarantee we can replace him but could we build a roster with the max money that might be a better overall team? I guess that’s the risk to weigh here. Every year there’s a handful of breakout players who can get the numbers and are considerably less expensive.

I assume JJ is looking at the long term structure of the suns and still trying to work with our current window.

 

[AzStevenCal]

his offensive game improved a lot, but how much of that was due to CP3 pushing him and finding good opportunities in the regular offensive flow? When he has to create stuff on his own he’s still not very polished. Are his flashes due to extra motivation from the other guys, or can he do that on his own every night?

there’s no guarantee we can replace him but could we build a roster with the max money that might be a better overall team? I guess that’s the risk to weigh here. Every year there’s a handful of breakout players who can get the numbers and are considerably less expensive.

I assume JJ is looking at the long term structure of the suns and still trying to work with our current window.

I believe a fair amount of it was due to CP3 but he isn't the only player that is heavily assisted. And he was so efficient in the playoffs that along with his defense you could make a strong case that he was the best center in the postseason. And he's still 9 months away from his 24th birthday playing a position that typically takes the longest to fully develop.

As long as we don't have to pay him any form of the super max, I'd consider him decent value on a max contract even if last year is the best we can expect from him.

 

[Western Font]

It’s been messy but I’m at peace with it and kind of think it’s a good position. He can still get the money but the Suns are not committed to five years with no trade option this year or next. I’m not looking to trade him though.

 

[boisesuns]

I believe a fair amount of it was due to CP3 but he isn't the only player that is heavily assisted. And he was so efficient in the playoffs that along with his defense you could make a strong case that he was the best center in the postseason. And he's still 9 months away from his 24th birthday playing a position that typically takes the longest to fully develop.

As long as we don't have to pay him any form of the super max, I'd consider him decent value on a max contract even if last year is the best we can expect from him.

I wonder if it’s I their thoughts to build around booker and bridges vs the trio

 

[AzStevenCal]

I wonder if it’s I their thoughts to build around booker and bridges vs the trio

Well, they know him better than any of us so if his red flags really worry them, you could be right. But I think they like what they have with him most nights even though I'm sure he frustrates them as much as he does most fans.

 

[Superbone]

That will probably never happen. I believe that he thinks showing that he can dominate is the same thing as actually dominating. I hope it's not the case but I suspect we're going to have to settle for a player that plays solid defense, dominates offensively infrequently and doesn't usually hurt you the rest of the time.

You meant "saying" right? I wish he would show it and with some consistency.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You meant "saying" right? I wish he would show it and with some consistency.

I think he meant showing it once in a while verses actually dominating consistently.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You meant "saying" right? I wish he would show it and with some consistency.

Sorry that wasn't clear. Like Ouchie said, I meant dominating on occasion as opposed to dominating regularly. In most games he has a short stretch where he is the best big man on either team.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'll admit I get confused trying to make sense of it. I have read that the Derrick Rose rule is possible through the 7th season yet I've also read that the designated rookie extension only applies if they signed an extension prior to their 4th season.

The designated rookie extension is the deal for 5 years max money, which is paid after the rookie contract is done. It kicks in officially for their 5th season. It's considered a designated max because of that 5th year that only a resigning home team can offer. It really doesn't have anything to do with the financials because a player must get max salary for that 5th year to be part of the contract. It doesn't matter if its the 25 or 30% max though. A player has to get language written into an extension if they believe they'll hit the qualifiers for the Derrick Rose Max otherwise they'll only get the 25%, which only really applies before the contract starts paying out, which is generally the 5th season that player is in the NBA because a rookie scale contract is for 4 years.

The Derrick Rose Rule is what bumps it from 25%-30% of the cap if the player qualifies by hitting all NBA or MVP. A player is typically eligible for 25% of the cap between 1-6 years of experience, they can hit 30% though if the hit the qualifiers. Otherwise they have to wait until they've been in the league for at least 6 years before they can get 30% of the cap as their max salary.

 

[Superbone]

Sorry that wasn't clear. Like Ouchie said, I meant dominating on occasion as opposed to dominating regularly. In most games he has a short stretch where he is the best big man on either team.

And almost always in the first half.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And almost always in the first half.

Yeah it's almost like he does his thing and figures he's done for the day. Or, if you think Ayton isn't the problem; the team goes to him early and chooses to ignore him later on. I think there's a little truth to the latter but a whole lot more truth to the former.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah it's almost like he does his thing and figures he's done for the day. Or, if you think Ayton isn't the problem; the team goes to him early and chooses to ignore him later on. I think there's a little truth to the latter but a whole lot more truth to the former.

Lets see if more of same tonight. 11/9 in first half

 

[Chaplin]

Jarrett Allen has been useless.

 

[Chaplin]

Book doing Book things.