The Ayton Plan

[Yuma]

You've got that turned around. Ayton's team said they won't settle for anything less than the 5 year max. JJ wanted to sit down and negotiate, Ayton's team said no and that was that. Call that negotiation if you want, but they never sat down to discuss anything.

Not negotiating, is negotiations. Just means both sides unwilling to compromise. They let each other know their limits. Neither side was willing to bend, so why put anything in writing? You only write it down once it's needed.

 

[Yuma]

I was thinking, if you don't resign Ayton, that closes the Suns window. I would have given him the contract, which would have extended our window, and worst case we have seen teams willing to take bad contracts, exhibit A, John Wall.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was thinking, if you don't resign Ayton, that closes the Suns window. I would have given him the contract, which would have extended our window, and worst case we have seen teams willing to take bad contracts, exhibit A, John Wall.

Let's hope Ayton gets signed by the Suns when he becomes a RFA.

However, there is also the option of trading him before the trade deadline or a sign-and-trade next summer.

Getting near equal value is always hard but it is possible for the Suns to fill their center/forward needs that way.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was thinking, if you don't resign Ayton, that closes the Suns window. I would have given him the contract, which would have extended our window, and worst case we have seen teams willing to take bad contracts, exhibit A, John Wall.

If we let him walk for nothing, I'd agree. But we hold his rights for this season and, if necessary, next season.

I can't see him playing out his final year and giving up about 15 million to become unrestricted but even then we have a chance at recouping some value by a sign and trade.

But most likely, this season will end and we will make an offer that he will accept or he will take an offer from somewhere else that we will then match. I don't think we'll repeat the Joe Johnson scenario where we acceded to Joe's request that we not match unless we can get near equal value for him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If that was reality you wouldn't see overpaid guys in any sports league. It simply doesn't work out that way. Many teams and many times right here in Arizona we have even overpaid to stay in the market. In principle I think that's how it works. There are GM's all over every sports league that likely wouldn't have made certain moves if the market didn't force them to overpay.

Nope good teams don’t do it. Tell me the last time the Spurs misjudged and blew a max contract because the rest of the league was doing it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I didn't say the Suns had to. I said the Suns have to decide if they want to stay in the market.

You’ve making the argument that because MPJ and Gilgeous got max contracts the suns didn’t have a choice. That those bad contracts set the market. That’s different than another team is willing to pay Ayton the max setting the market. If you can’t see the difference between those two argument I guess we are done.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Lol, you're kidding here, right? Surely you're not intimating that it's unknown what kind of offer that Ayton would get on the open market.

I don’t think it’s a given he would automatically get a 5 year max last year from other gms. And frankly we have zero indication that it would’ve happened but for the yapping heads on tv.

 

[Covert Rain]

Nope good teams don’t do it. Tell me the last time the Spurs misjudged and blew a max contract because the rest of the league was doing it.

Good teams hang in to talent and the even better ones restructure contracts when they need to. Almost every team has had to overpay at some point or got themselves into bad contracts.

 

[Covert Rain]

You’ve making the argument that because MPJ and Gilgeous got max contracts the suns didn’t have a choice. That those bad contracts set the market. That’s different than another team is willing to pay Ayton the max setting the market. If you can’t see the difference between those two argument I guess we are done.

No. I am arguing that if teams are willing to pay Ayton a max contract that sets the market.

I never put Gilgeous and Porter in the same boat with Ayton. I think you misunderstood what I meant by peer.

 

[Phrazbit]

Nope good teams don’t do it. Tell me the last time the Spurs misjudged and blew a max contract because the rest of the league was doing it.

Not max deals but the Spurs have thrown out some pretty crappy contracts in their own right, especially in the last 5 or 6 years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No. I am arguing that if teams are willing to pay Ayton a max contract that sets the market.

I never put Gilgeous and Porter in the same boat with Ayton. I think you misunderstood what I meant by peer.

If that’s the case then we are in agreement.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not max deals but the Spurs have thrown out some pretty crappy contracts in their own right, especially in the last 5 or 6 years.

Big difference throwing out a a relatively small crappy contract (like shamets might be) or a lousy max. HUGE difference.

 

[Phrazbit]

Big difference throwing out a a relatively small crappy contract (like shamets might be) or a lousy max. HUGE difference.

They have several Landry Shamet contracts. They're also paying Doug McDermott 40 mil over the next 3 years, Derrick White 73 million over 4 years.

I'd rather risk an overpay on a good but not great player than have a boat load of fringe rotation players eating up more than half the cap.

The Spurs, for several years, have been where the Suns were in the early 2010s. They're overpaying guys who are not difference makers and falling just short of mediocrity.

They had a great run but I don't think I would call them a model franchise at the moment.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They have several Landry Shamet contracts. They're also paying Doug McDermott 40 mil over the next 3 years, Derrick White 73 million over 4 years.

I'd rather risk an overpay on a good but not great player than have a boat load of fringe rotation players eating up more than half the cap.

The Spurs, for several years, have been where the Suns were in the early 2010s. They're overpaying guys who are not difference makers and falling just short of mediocrity.

They had a great run but I don't think I would call them a model franchise at the moment.

And yet, something tells me they won’t have a decade of awfulness if the same leadership remains in place. And it’s a LOT easier to move those contracts without having to pay someone to take them than it is a bad max contract.

Honestly, I’m just sitting here chuckling at the fact that you’re literally arguing in favor of, or seeking justification for, teams giving out bad max contracts.

 

[Phrazbit]

And yet, something tells me they won’t have a decade of awfulness if the same leadership remains in place. And it’s a LOT easier to move those contracts without having to pay someone to take them than it is a bad max contract.

Honestly, I’m just sitting here chuckling at the fact that you’re literally arguing in favor of, or seeking justification for, teams giving out bad max contracts.

I'm not advocating for bad max deals, I am saying I'd rather have a good player but not great on a max contract that a bunch of crappy players on 8 figure deals and refuting the notion that the Spurs have been wise of late with their salaries.

I also disagree that one overpayed max guy is more difficult to clear than a pile of trash contracts. A few years back Griffin, John Wall, Chandler Parsons and (ironically) Chris Paul had what were viewed as the worst contracts in the league... and everyone of them has been traded, twice in Paul's case.

I do agree that the Spurs likely won't spend a decade in the tank though, being terrible that long is on ownership.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton now is the second fastest Phoenix Suns player ever to record 3,000 career points and 2,000 career rebounds in franchise history. Ayton reached that milestone in just 188 career games. Of players who played for the Suns only Barkley and Shaq reached it in fewer games but they did not play with the Suns when they accomplished that. To put into further perspective, Ayton did it faster than Alvin Adam and Shawn Marion. Of all the active players in the NBA only Joel Embiid (174 games), Karl-Anthony Towns (177 games) and Blake Griffin (183 games) did it faster.

Seeing where he actually ranked in the regular season, this season with his peers at Center and where he ranks in the playoffs (albeit with only one trip) and now this? Ayton is proving that people, despite his frustrating inconsistency at times, are undervaluing him IMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

Ayton now is the second fastest Phoenix Suns player ever to record 3,000 career points and 2,000 career rebounds in franchise history. Ayton reached that milestone in just 188 career games. Of players who played for the Suns only Barkley and Shaq reached it in fewer games. To put into further perspective, Ayton did it faster than Alvin Adam and Shawn Marion. Of all the active players in the NBA only Joel Embiid (174 games), Karl-Anthony Towns (177 games) and Blake Griffin (183 games) did it faster.

Seeing where he actually ranked in the regular season, this season with his peers at Center and where he ranks in the playoffs (albeit with only one trip) and now this? Ayton is proving that people, despite his frustrating inconsistency at times, are undervaluing him IMO.

How is the second fastest Sun to record that behind 2 other guys? Wouldn't that make him the third?

 

[Mainstreet]

Deandre Ayton was nominee for Western Conference Player of the Week but Damian Lillard won it.

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[Covert Rain]

How is the second fastest Sun to record that behind 2 other guys? Wouldn't that make him the third?

Second fastest to the totals. Third in the fewest games to accomplish.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Second fastest to the totals. Third in the fewest games to accomplish.

Uh those two are inconsistent with one and other unless they’re measuring “fastest to totals” in some metric other than games. Age? No, because he’s younger than both shaq and chuck ay that point.

 

[Covert Rain]

Uh those two are inconsistent with one and other unless they’re measuring “fastest to totals” in some metric other than games. Age? No, because he’s younger than both shaq and chuck ay that point.

Yeah...I had to re-read the article. Says Ayton is the second fastest Phoenix Suns player ever to record 3,000 career points and 2,000 career rebounds. The article mentioned Shaq and Chuck did it faster. I am assuming they are not counting Shaq and Chuck even though there were mentioned only because maybe they didn't do it while in a Suns uniform?? I will have to look it up.

Ayton second fastest in Suns history to 3,000 points and 2,000 rebounds

Ayton reached the milestone in just 188 career games, a mark that almost always indicates a Hall of Fame player

www.brightsideofthesun.com

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I said that wrong. Ayton is the second fastest player ever to record 3,000 career points and 2,000 career rebounds while playing for the Suns. Only two other players WHO ONCE PLAYED for the Suns did it faster. Charles and Shaq did it in fewer games but they did not play for the Suns WHEN they did it.

So who was the guy that did it faster while playing for the suns?

 

[JCSunsfan]

So who was the guy that did it faster while playing for the suns?

I would guess Amare or Alvan. Probably Alvan.

 

[Covert Rain]

So who was the guy that did it faster while playing for the suns?

I am trying to find out. Now that I re-read the article, I noticed that was never mentioned. Now I want to know too.

I would guess Amare or Alvan. Probably Alvan.

Definitely not Alvan. Shawn Marion did it in 213 games, while Alvan Adams needed 230 games. My guess is also Amare but I am trying to replicate what he did on another site since I am not subscribing to what he used.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Could be Connie Hawkins. Hawk had 2120 rebounds in his first 228 games with the Suns. He easily made the points. That would put Hawk making it in about 213 games just based on his averages that year.