The Ayton Plan

[JCSunsfan]

I just do not see the Howard comparisons. Ayton has a much more diverse offensive game than Dwight ever dreamed of having. And Ayton is not the dominant shot blocker or rebounder that Howard was. I think there are much better comparisons.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just do not see the Howard comparisons. Ayton has a much more diverse offensive game than Dwight ever dreamed of having. And Ayton is not the dominant shot blocker or rebounder that Howard was. I think there are much better comparisons.

Yeah, stats may suggest otherwise but watching them play I just don't see any real comp there.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Interestingly Ayton falls in a weird place amongst center comparisons. He’s not the physical force of nature that were Dwight, shaq, Robinson. He’s better athletically than Daugherty. He’s a better perimeter defender than most centers but a worse rim protector than the best defensive centers. His offensive skill is becoming a combo of Robinson’s shot and Hakeem’s post moves, but his handles are still poor. I just think he kind of defies direct comparison to any center because he’s got parts, and lacks parts, of all of their games.

 

[Covert Rain]

Interestingly Ayton falls in a weird place amongst center comparisons. He’s not the physical force of nature that were Dwight, shaq, Robinson. He’s better athletically than Daugherty. He’s a better perimeter defender than most centers but a worse rim protector than the best defensive centers. His offensive skill is becoming a combo of Robinson’s shot and Hakeem’s post moves, but his handles are still poor. I just think he kind of defies direct comparison to any center because he’s got parts, and lacks parts, of all of their games.

This.

 

[Covert Rain]

I just do not see the Howard comparisons. Ayton has a much more diverse offensive game than Dwight ever dreamed of having. And Ayton is not the dominant shot blocker or rebounder that Howard was. I think there are much better comparisons.

That's why I said statistically.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I still think the Robert Parish comp is the best, but maybe none of you all are old enough to remember him. Solid center. Defensive anchor. Solid numbers across the board. Star level complementary piece.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I still think the Robert Parish comp is the best, but maybe none of you all are old enough to remember him. Solid center. Defensive anchor. Solid numbers across the board. Star level complementary piece.

Well, like George Lopez said, if you can remember the 80's you weren't there.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just do not see the Howard comparisons. Ayton has a much more diverse offensive game than Dwight ever dreamed of having. And Ayton is not the dominant shot blocker or rebounder that Howard was. I think there are much better comparisons.

Agreed. Those guys games were nothing alike on either end of the floor, IMO.

 

[AZ Native]

He's only 23. He has improved again this year. Sure, he is the goofy kid in the NBA. But he is our goofy kid. He could have laid an egg after not getting a new contract. But he has shown up and will only get better. Pay the man (not what I said last year). We need him in the furture.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He's only 23. He has improved again this year. Sure, he is the goofy kid in the NBA. But he is our goofy kid. He could have laid an egg after not getting a new contract. But he has shown up and will only get better. Pay the man (not what I said last year). We need him in the furture.

Yup. He’s going to get better. He has incrementally each season but when you add them up after four years, it’s pretty solid.

I can imagine him continuing to do the same so that by the time hes 26, he’s going to be an every year All-Star and I’m guessing a very good offensive player who can be a legit #2 on a title contender.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yup. He’s going to get better. He has incrementally each season but when you add them up after four years, it’s pretty solid.

I can imagine him continuing to do the same so that by the time hes 26, he’s going to be an every year All-Star and I’m guessing a very good offensive player who can be a legit #2 on a title contender.

I’d agree with this. He still has the ability to drive me nuts and I’m still flummoxed by his inability to draw fouls (has there ever been a top flight center that gets to the line as infrequently as Ayton?), but he’s become much more consistent and his touch is just flat out unreal.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well, like George Lopez said, if you can remember the 80's you weren't there.

A little off topic but I think some of the best music came out of the 70s and 80s. So many great artists to choose from.

 

[AzStevenCal]

A little off topic but I think some of the best music came out of the 70s and 80s. So many great artists to choose from.

I suspect I should explain my comment. In response to the suggestion that we are all too young to remember Robert Parish I decided to poke a little fun at the idea by offering a (mis)quote that was never about the 80's and has never been attributed to George Lopez. IOW, many of us here are quite familiar with Parish and his career.

As for the off topic music comment about when the best music comes from, for me it's the 60's, the second half of the 50's, the first half of the 70's, the 80's, the 40's, the 90's, the second half of the 70's and that's about it for me. I know there's been great music since the 90's but I haven't listened to much of it (unless you count my recent love affair with the music of Mon Laferte).

 

[AZ Native]

As for the off topic music comment about when the best music comes from, for me it's the 60's, the second half of the 50's, the first half of the 70's, the 80's, the 40's, the 90's, the second half of the 70's and that's about it for me.

I could have written that but Steve says it best. 100% agree.

 

[Mainstreet]

I suspect I should explain my comment. In response to the suggestion that we are all too young to remember Robert Parish I decided to poke a little fun at the idea by offering a (mis)quote that was never about the 80's and has never been attributed to George Lopez. IOW, many of us here are quite familiar with Parish and his career.

As for the off topic music comment about when the best music comes from, for me it's the 60's, the second half of the 50's, the first half of the 70's, the 80's, the 40's, the 90's, the second half of the 70's and that's about it for me. I know there's been great music since the 90's but I haven't listened to much of it (unless you count my recent love affair with the music of Mon Laferte).

My comments were more about music than Robert Parish whose career extended into the latter part of the nineties.

It gave me an excuse to talk about music from this time frame. I'm most fond of the music from the 70s and 80s although the foundation was laid well before that.

Hopefully it's something we can talk about on the music forum someday.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ayton has become a defensive anchor and a potential all-defense team member. None of us expected that when he came out of college. We thought defense would be his weak point.

He has developed a dependable hook, turnaround mid-range, and 15-foot face-up jumper. He is even hitting the occasional three. He plays the pick and roll well and is a good finisher at the rim, especially with lobs. He is MUCH better at setting screens. He still seems to disappear in some games, where it seems like he just is not paying attention.

In those games, you might even think he was hanging with Mjb21 before the games and got a little too mellow and accomodating.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton has become a defensive anchor and a potential all-defense team member. None of us expected that when he came out of college. We thought defense would be his weak point.

He has developed a dependable hook, turnaround mid-range, and 15-foot face-up jumper. He is even hitting the occasional three. He plays the pick and roll well and is a good finisher at the rim, especially with lobs. He is MUCH better at setting screens. He still seems to disappear in some games, where it seems like he just is not paying attention.

In those games, you might even think he was hanging with Mjb21 before the games and got a little too mellow and accomodating.

You forgot his floater. He’s got a pretty deadly float game now too.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I still think the Robert Parish comp is the best, but maybe none of you all are old enough to remember him. Solid center. Defensive anchor. Solid numbers across the board. Star level complementary piece.

Meh, Ayton is far more fluid from an offensive perspective than Parish. Much more like Hakeem. Hakeem had a more polished post game, but Ayton is still a baby!

 

[Phrazbit]

We see something of a pattern with Ayton. His defense is almost always there but at some point he gets complacent, especially against bad teams, has a few bad games in a row, really passive, not crashing the glass, gets called out on it, calls himself out, then kicks it into a gear that we have not seen before, spends the next long while playing at a rather high level, we bump into a few ****** teams in a row, his play tapers off, he gets called out, calls himself out... rinse and repeat.

The good news is that each time he gets pissed off about his own poor play he seems to find a new level.

His issue is obviously motivation, he just doesn't hype himself up to feast on ****** teams and match ups. This dude puts up big numbers against elite competition but 12-6 against scrubs. If he went after the crap front courts of the league like he attacks the elite ones he would be an all-nba player. I suppose it's better for use that he elevates his game against the best competition than shrinking against them and beating up on the trash, but still... dude needs to watch some Mighty Ducks from the evil team perspective, "IT'S NOT WORTH WINNING IF YOU CAN'T WIN BIG!!!"

 

[JCSunsfan]

That mellow easy-going thing is sort of a thing in the Bahamas isn't it?

Staying angry and competitive might be a fight against his culture and upbringing.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We see something of a pattern with Ayton. His defense is almost always there but at some point he gets complacent, especially against bad teams, has a few bad games in a row, really passive, not crashing the glass, gets called out on it, calls himself out, then kicks it into a gear that we have not seen before, spends the next long while playing at a rather high level, we bump into a few ****** teams in a row, his play tapers off, he gets called out, calls himself out... rinse and repeat.

The good news is that each time he gets pissed off about his own poor play he seems to find a new level.

His issue is obviously motivation, he just doesn't hype himself up to feast on ****** teams and match ups. This dude puts up big numbers against elite competition but 12-6 against scrubs. If he went after the crap front courts of the league like he attacks the elite ones he would be an all-nba player. I suppose it's better for use that he elevates his game against the best competition than shrinking against them and beating up on the trash, but still... dude needs to watch some Mighty Ducks from the evil team perspective, "IT'S NOT WORTH WINNING IF YOU CAN'T WIN BIG!!!"

Best to accept that passivity at times is just part of his personality. If he becomes more of a killer, great, but he also has shown the ability to turn it on at the right time, which is most important.

 

[Hoop Head]

Spotrac has a very objective article about Ayton's next contract up. Worth looking over if you aren't familiar with the financials for both Ayton and the Suns.

Deandre Ayton’s Next Contract | Spotrac News

Deandre Ayton and the Phoenix Suns weren't able to agree to a rookie scale contract extension last offseason. What are Ayton's contract options going into this offseason? Keith Smith breaks down each contract scenario that Ayton could sign.

www.spotrac.com

The Suns will be $19 million below the tax line before Ayton is re-signed so it's almost guaranteed they're a tax paying team next season. They could dump Saric and Craig to get right at the line but likely go over when signing minimum contract players to fill out the roster. The tax is essentially unavoidable.

Here's a breakdown of the max he can get elsewhere...

• 2022-23: $30,250,000
• 2023-24: $31,762,500
• 2024-25: $33,275,000
• 2025-26: $34,787,500
• Total: Four years, $130,075,000

And here's the max from us...

• 2022-23: $30,250,000
• 2023-24: $32,670,000
• 2024-25: $35,090,000
• 2025-26: $37,510,000
• 2026-27: $39,930,000
• Total: Five years, $175,450,000

That $45 million dollar difference is the hurdle to clear. Not only is that extra year a lot but the annual disparity between the raises other teams can offer, 5%, and what the Suns can, 8%, will also be a lot for the team to consider.

I hope they can get it done quick so we don't worry about it all offseason, especially if we win the title because then there's no reason to pinch pennies when we should be thinking repeat.

 

[Phrazbit]

Spotrac has a very objective article about Ayton's next contract up. Worth looking over if you aren't familiar with the financials for both Ayton and the Suns.

Deandre Ayton’s Next Contract | Spotrac News

Deandre Ayton and the Phoenix Suns weren't able to agree to a rookie scale contract extension last offseason. What are Ayton's contract options going into this offseason? Keith Smith breaks down each contract scenario that Ayton could sign.

www.spotrac.com

The Suns will be $19 million below the tax line before Ayton is re-signed so it's almost guaranteed they're a tax paying team next season. They could dump Saric and Craig to get right at the line but likely go over when signing minimum contract players to fill out the roster. The tax is essentially unavoidable.

Here's a breakdown of the max he can get elsewhere...

• 2022-23: $30,250,000
• 2023-24: $31,762,500
• 2024-25: $33,275,000
• 2025-26: $34,787,500
• Total: Four years, $130,075,000

And here's the max from us...

• 2022-23: $30,250,000
• 2023-24: $32,670,000
• 2024-25: $35,090,000
• 2025-26: $37,510,000
• 2026-27: $39,930,000
• Total: Five years, $175,450,000

That $45 million dollar difference is the hurdle to clear. Not only is that extra year a lot but the annual disparity between the raises other teams can offer, 5%, and what the Suns can, 8%, will also be a lot for the team to consider.

I hope they can get it done quick so we don't worry about it all offseason, especially if we win the title because then there's no reason to pinch pennies when we should be thinking repeat.

Hopefully they win the title and any question of paying him flies out the window.

If we can grab a ring, winning 65+ games, with the majority of the core players not even sniffing their prime yet... it will reek of dynasty.

 

[gimpy]

You are talking dynasty? We haven’t even won — one. Getting ahead of yourself, don’t you think?

 

[Finito]

Spotrac has a very objective article about Ayton's next contract up. Worth looking over if you aren't familiar with the financials for both Ayton and the Suns.

Deandre Ayton’s Next Contract | Spotrac News

Deandre Ayton and the Phoenix Suns weren't able to agree to a rookie scale contract extension last offseason. What are Ayton's contract options going into this offseason? Keith Smith breaks down each contract scenario that Ayton could sign.

www.spotrac.com

The Suns will be $19 million below the tax line before Ayton is re-signed so it's almost guaranteed they're a tax paying team next season. They could dump Saric and Craig to get right at the line but likely go over when signing minimum contract players to fill out the roster. The tax is essentially unavoidable.

Here's a breakdown of the max he can get elsewhere...

• 2022-23: $30,250,000
• 2023-24: $31,762,500
• 2024-25: $33,275,000
• 2025-26: $34,787,500
• Total: Four years, $130,075,000

And here's the max from us...

• 2022-23: $30,250,000
• 2023-24: $32,670,000
• 2024-25: $35,090,000
• 2025-26: $37,510,000
• 2026-27: $39,930,000
• Total: Five years, $175,450,000

That $45 million dollar difference is the hurdle to clear. Not only is that extra year a lot but the annual disparity between the raises other teams can offer, 5%, and what the Suns can, 8%, will also be a lot for the team to consider.

I hope they can get it done quick so we don't worry about it all offseason, especially if we win the title because then there's no reason to pinch pennies when we should be thinking repeat.

Don’t forget about Cam Johnson and Bookers Super-Max he’s gonna be up for.

This is where we see if Sarver is really willing to put up or shut up.

Ayton is getting that Max from us or someone else else