The Ayton Plan

[Hoop Head]

Ayton deserves the max but the question is can the Suns be a title contender while paying Ayton max money? That's the question that JJ has to answer. It seems he doesn't believe they can, which is why Ayton didn't get a max extension.

 

[Folster]

I think the template for an Ayton trade must be a good starter (preferably a big to replace Ayton), young prospect, and a 1st round pick. Anything less and we re-sign or match.

 

[Big Al]

That’s not true at all.

Ayton has a very good post game especially with his hook and jump shot. He’s pretty much money mid range and in. Matter fact Ayton’s best stretch of the season happened when Paul was out.

Capela had only averaged double digit FGA twice in his career he’s not an offensive option at all and never has been.

Going with the talent is the smart move unless there is a chemistry issue. Hopefully Devin Booker and Chris Paul have weighed in.

I'd like to keep Ayton but I don't know what caused the collapse in game 7.

I like to keep Ayton here but who know's if Ayton will be here next season? A lot on this board would like to see him gone. I say patience as we need a capable power forward & backup point guard. Ayton has a lot of growing up to do but some think he's still a terrific potential player and some would ship him out asap. The Suns at some point in time must make a decision given the $$ involved. Can Ayton mature in the player of his expected potenial & be worthy of the $ needed to keep him? Just hope the Suns don't give up on him as I would like at least 1 or 2 more season & run but they have a whole team to run and consider. Hope also there aren't chemistry issues that can't be ironed out.

Monty seemed to start looking so weak, passive, and not making any adjustments or challenging calls in 2021 finals series with the Bucks & both rounds with the Pelicans & Mavericks of 2022 playoffs. What happen? How did the wheels fall off for the Suns in this year's playoff?

 

[Covert Rain]

Very few posters here would argue against this. He's going to get the max and most of us know it. Whether the team that gives him that contract is happy a few years later is the real question. But even that question doesn't matter because given the situation we're in we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot if we did anything other than re-sign him.

No question Ayton is getting paid. It's not just about being happy either. If the Suns KEEP Ayton, you are saying for the foreseeable future your top two salary slots are Booker/Ayton which I don't think is the recipe for a title. You will have a harder time going forward fielding any team that stays under the luxury tax. As it is, the Suns would have to use the MLE to keep McGee if they resign Ayton and that means having the largest luxury tax bill in the league. That problem doesn't go away and as long as Sarver is the owner that will never happen. Which means the team will start to shed players important to the Suns runs the last couple years.

The Suns must re-sign Ayton. I don't think it's necessarily shooting ourselves in the foot if they then do a sign and trade after they do.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No question Ayton is getting paid. It's not just about being happy either. If the Suns KEEP Ayton, you are saying for the foreseeable future your top two salary slots are Booker/Ayton which I don't think is the recipe for a title. You will have a harder time going forward fielding any team that stays under the luxury tax. As it is, the Suns would have to use the MLE to keep McGee if they resign Ayton and that means having the largest luxury tax bill in the league. That problem doesn't go away and as long as Sarver is the owner that will never happen. Which means the team will start to shed players important to the Suns runs the last couple years.

The Suns must re-sign Ayton. I don't think it's necessarily shooting ourselves in the foot if they then do a sign and trade after they do.

Your last paragraph is confusing, how can they sign him and then do a sign and trade?

Unless you have a player that is clearly in the conversation for the best player in the game, I think you're always going to have a roster that fans will question (until they actually win a title). Maybe Booker and Ayton can't be the two best players on a championship team but I don't see how we get better by giving up DA for role players.

We have a team of role players, and we have a center that has superstar potential. It's unlikely he'll ever reach that level but as slim as those odds are, I like them better than our chance of moving him and finding an actual superstar to pair with Devin.

 

[Covert Rain]

Your last paragraph is confusing, how can they sign him and then do a sign and trade?

Unless you have a player that is clearly in the conversation for the best player in the game, I think you're always going to have a roster that fans will question (until they actually win a title). Maybe Booker and Ayton can't be the two best players on a championship team but I don't see how we get better by giving up DA for role players.

We have a team of role players, and we have a center that has superstar potential. It's unlikely he'll ever reach that level but as slim as those odds are, I like them better than our chance of moving him and finding an actual superstar to pair with Devin.

I am confused by your question. The definition of a sign and trade is that you sign him....then trade him. When you sign Ayton you either keep him or make him part of a trade package after doing so. Also, I never said give up DA for role players. In fact, all of my other posts have stated that you can't do that. It doesn't change the reality of what having Book/Ayton as your two highest players does to this roster, the luxury tax and the longer term implications of that.

Also, Ayton will never be a Superstar. He doesn't have LeBron type potential. Can you name another Superstar in the league that wasn't already playing at that level by year 4? Ayton can get better but he does not have that potential. I think Suns fans need to face reality about Atyon. Ayton can be a star player and its a very good big. Superstar? No.

 

[TJ]

Ayton deserves the max but the question is can the Suns be a title contender while paying Ayton max money? That's the question that JJ has to answer. It seems he doesn't believe they can, which is why Ayton didn't get a max extension.

The Suns were two games away from a title with Ayton in the fold last season. The roster composition next season wouldn't look much different if Ayton were given the max. We're a worse team without him in the mix. If such a window still exists, it's extremely small because CP3 is not getting younger. I'm still of the opinion that he wants out of Phoenix, but if the relationship can be salvaged, you have to re-sign Ayton.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns were two games away from a title with Ayton in the fold last season. The roster composition next season wouldn't look much different if Ayton were given the max. We're a worse team without him in the mix. If such a window still exists, it's extremely small because CP3 is not getting younger. I'm still of the opinion that he wants out of Phoenix, but if the relationship can be salvaged, you have to re-sign Ayton.

It wouldn't? McGee was huge. No way Sarver is going to give McGee the MLE, resign Cam Johnson and be the team with the largest luxury tax in the league. It's not going to happen. I think losing McGee and/or Cam who was one of the best shooters would impact this team. There is no guarantee we resign Biz either. That would be all of our depth in the FC. Who is going to replace Cam's shooting? Where is our depth in the FC coming from?

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am confused by your question. The definition of a sign and trade is that you sign him....then trade him. When you sign Ayton you either keep him or make him part of a trade package after doing so. Also, I never said give up DA for role players. In fact, all of my other posts have stated that you can't do that. It doesn't change the reality of what having Book/Ayton as your two highest players does to this roster, the luxury tax and the longer term implications of that.

Also, Ayton will never be a Superstar. He doesn't have LeBron type potential. Can you name another Superstar in the league that wasn't already playing at that level by year 4? Ayton can get better but he does not have that potential. I think Suns fans need to face reality about Atyon. Ayton can be a star player and its a very good big. Superstar? No.

You should re-read your post, that's not what you said. But forgetting that, the sign and trade is functionally one action. Once they agree to do a sign and trade, the signing itself is voided if the trade doesn't occur. And if you sign him (without having an S&T in place) you have to wait 3 months from the signing before you can move him.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Ayton deserves the max but the question is can the Suns be a title contender while paying Ayton max money? That's the question that JJ has to answer. It seems he doesn't believe they can, which is why Ayton didn't get a max extension.

They can, if CP is playing at an all star level. If CP is bad playoff CP, it won't matter anyway. Everything is pretty much dependent on a glass man. I wish there were a way to flip Paul at this point, because I can't envision a scenario where he gets through a postseason healthy.

 

[Covert Rain]

You should re-read your post, that's not what you said. But forgetting that, the sign and trade is functionally one action. Once they agree to do a sign and trade, the signing itself is voided if the trade doesn't occur. And if you sign him (without having an S&T in place) you have to wait 3 months from the signing before you can move him.

I said "The Suns must re-sign Ayton. I don't think it's necessarily shooting ourselves in the foot if they then do a sign and trade after they do." All that meant was the Suns can't let him sign the qualifying offer and walk after that. They need to resign Ayton to either keep him or get something in return. Signing is signing. In the leagues eyes it's still a contract with the Suns which allows for the 5 year deal before and sign and trade.

Also, if you are going through with keeping Ayton, you are likely not trading him just 3 months later so that never entered my mind.

So regardless of the function of a sign and trade there is really 3 options. Sign Extension, Sign and Trade or he signs the qualifying offer. All 3 start with a contract with the Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

A sign and trade is where Ayton is traded when free agency begins (July 1st- 8th) under the terms of such an agreement. The Suns can only take back up to $19 million in contracts back.

If the Suns sign Ayton and then trade him later (after a prescribed waiting period) it would be just a trade.

Phoenix would be able to get near matching salaries back.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I said "The Suns must re-sign Ayton. I don't think it's necessarily shooting ourselves in the foot if they then do a sign and trade after they do." All that meant was the Suns can't let him sign the qualifying offer and walk after that. They need to resign Ayton to either keep him or get something in return. Signing is signing. In the leagues eyes it's still a contract with the Suns which allows for the 5 year deal.

So regardless of the function of a sign and trade there is really 3 options. Sign Extension, Sign and Trade and he signs the qualifying offer. All 3 start with a contract with the Suns.

This simply isn't worth the effort. You misspoke, either own it or don't, I don't care.

 

[Covert Rain]

This simply isn't worth the effort. You misspoke, either own it or don't, I don't care.

Maybe it wasn't clear but I explained it. Just because you don't like the fact that each option starts with a Suns contract doesn't mean I misspoke. That's why I clarified what I said. I really don't care if you care. Just responding to you splitting hairs.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns were two games away from a title with Ayton in the fold last season. The roster composition next season wouldn't look much different if Ayton were given the max. We're a worse team without him in the mix. If such a window still exists, it's extremely small because CP3 is not getting younger. I'm still of the opinion that he wants out of Phoenix, but if the relationship can be salvaged, you have to re-sign Ayton.

The Suns and Ayton need to agree that it is in their best interest for him to re-sign with Phoenix because they can pay him more money. A sign and trade is not the best option.

Maybe they can reach an understanding if it doesn't work out, they can trade him at the trade deadline (or whenever eligible) to a team of his liking.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Maybe it wasn't clear but I explained it. Just because you don't like the fact that each option starts with a Suns contract doesn't mean I misspoke. That's why I clarified what I said. I really don't care if you care. Just responding to you splitting hairs.

No one refers to a guy signing a deal in free agency and then later getting trade during the season as a “sign and trade.”

 

[Covert Rain]

No one refers to a guy signing a deal in free agency and then later getting trade during the season as a “sign and trade.”

I never said that. There are 3 options. Sign (extension), Sign and Trade and qualifying offer. I never brought up Signing Ayton to keep him then trading him later. I said that scenario never entered my mind. The Suns wouldn't go through the hassle of signing Ayton (to keep him) then trading him later in the season IMO. Well maybe if the wheels fall off.

Every scenario requires him to sign and contract with the Suns FIRST which is what I was referencing. Again, probably not clear but is why I clarified.

 

[Folster]

No one refers to a guy signing a deal in free agency and then later getting trade during the season as a “sign and trade.”

Another point of clarification that may come into play is when a RFA officially signs an offer sheet with another team, the sign and trade is off the table and the only option the team with the player's rights has is to match or decline. If Ayton signs an offer sheet with another team it will because a sign and trade agreement could not be made.

 

[Covert Rain]

Another point of clarification that may come into play is when a RFA officially signs an offer sheet with another team, the sign and trade is off the table and the only option the team with the player's rights has is to match or decline. If Ayton signs an offer sheet with another team it will because a sign and trade agreement could not be made.

It could also be the Suns are not interested in trading him at all and want to see if they can get him cheaper based on competing offers too right?

 

[Folster]

It could also be the Suns are not interested in trading him at all and want to see if they can get him cheaper based on competing offers too right?

Yes. "Could not or didn't want to be made" by one or both of the teams.

 

[Hoop Head]

It could also be the Suns are not interested in trading him at all and want to see if they can get him cheaper based on competing offers too right?

Theres no competing offers once an offer sheet is signed. At that point the Suns have 72 hours to either match the offer sheet or let him walk. It can't get cheaper than an offer sheet.

 

[Covert Rain]

Theres no competing offers once an offer sheet is signed. At that point the Suns have 72 hours to either match the offer sheet or let him walk. It can't get cheaper than an offer sheet.

By cheaper I mean cheaper than what the Suns want to pay him.

 

[GatorAZ]

Theres no competing offers once an offer sheet is signed. At that point the Suns have 72 hours to either match the offer sheet or let him walk. It can't get cheaper than an offer sheet.

That’s where Ayton has some leverage. He doesn’t have to help the Suns get anything back but like JJ he might have to help them if he doesn’t want a match. The Suns probably match Joe’s offer-sheet if they weren’t able to get back some assets from Atlanta.

 

[Mainstreet]

That’s where Ayton has some leverage. He doesn’t have to help the Suns get anything back but like JJ he might have to help them if he doesn’t want a match. The Suns probably match Joe’s offer-sheet if they weren’t able to get back some assets from Atlanta.

About the only leverage Ayton has after signing an offer sheet is for him to refuse to play for the Suns.

 

[Big Al]

The Suns and Ayton need to agree that it is in their best interest for him to re-sign with Phoenix because they can pay him more money. A sign and trade is not the best option.

Maybe they can reach an understanding if it doesn't work out, they can trade him at the trade deadline (or whenever eligible) to a team of his liking.

I wish we were talking about getting rid of Cam Payne, Shamet, Dario, Elfred Payton and Crowder instead of Ayton. But after 4 years maybe departure is the only answer for everyone to be happy. But I may be wrong but I think Ayton will turn out great for someone else.