The Ayton Plan

[Phrazbit]

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It honestly seemed like he couldn't miss for most of the series. I just wish we'd stop forgetting he exists in the 2nd half of games.

 

[Larry Schweikart]

Well, Ayton is no longer bad outside of 5 feet. He's pretty accurate and reliable from the FT line in. His problems are entirely on D and rebounding. Frequently he gets pushed under the backboard, and is almost always too low, especially considering today's long rebounds via the 3. He's def not a banger-tapper in the MdGee mold. He's superb on the pick and roll---better than McGee. But if they are going to keep him, they need a Paul Silas/Dennis Rodman/AC Green/Barlkey-type power forward, which will mean that Crowder would have to go.

Crowder has not done himself any favors with his 3-point shooting late season. There was an article about one of his playoff games vs. Pels saying that even though he only scored a couple of points, he was singularly responsible for shutting them down. Maybe. I love his energy and effort, but the fact is we lose dozens of second chance balls. That's the only reason most teams hang with us.

So we will have to let Ayton go on the market and hope we fill the void. Because a Jocic type center would not fit in this system. We need a Russell, not an Abdul-Jabbar.

 

[elindholm]

Well, Ayton is no longer bad outside of 5 feet. He's pretty accurate and reliable from the FT line in. His problems are entirely on D and rebounding. Frequently he gets pushed under the backboard, and is almost always too low, especially considering today's long rebounds via the 3. He's def not a banger-tapper in the MdGee mold. He's superb on the pick and roll---better than McGee. But if they are going to keep him, they need a Paul Silas/Dennis Rodman/AC Green/Barlkey-type power forward, which will mean that Crowder would have to go.

Crowder has not done himself any favors with his 3-point shooting late season. There was an article about one of his playoff games vs. Pels saying that even though he only scored a couple of points, he was singularly responsible for shutting them down. Maybe. I love his energy and effort, but the fact is we lose dozens of second chance balls. That's the only reason most teams hang with us.

So we will have to let Ayton go on the market and hope we fill the void. Because a Jocic type center would not fit in this system. We need a Russell, not an Abdul-Jabbar.

So you're saying that the Suns will choose Crowder over Ayton?

 

[Mainstreet]

So we will have to let Ayton go on the market and hope we fill the void. Because a Jocic type center would not fit in this system. We need a Russell, not an Abdul-Jabbar.

Kareem was good defensively especially in his early years. He was an 11-time NBA All-Defensive Team member.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hmmm. An Ayton Jokic debate is interesting. Ayton's defense has been fantastic most of the year. He goes mellow in some games, for whatever reason. Jokic is the better player overall but Ayton is the better defender. I just don't know what else we would have to give up to get Jokic. Not sure Jokic and CP3 would mesh. I think Jokic and Book would be fine.

 

[Hoop Head]

Hmmm. An Ayton Jokic debate is interesting. Ayton's defense has been fantastic most of the year. He goes mellow in some games, for whatever reason. Jokic is the better player overall but Ayton is the better defender. I just don't know what else we would have to give up to get Jokic. Not sure Jokic and CP3 would mesh. I think Jokic and Book would be fine.

Jokic wouldn't make sense here until CP3 is gone. That might also align with him growing frustrated and wanting out of Denver because MPJ can't stay healthy and they can't compete shorthanded.

If the opportunity arises, I'd jump on it but because of their ages I'm not sure it would make sense for a straight swap. It would probably require a third of fourth team to add picks and take Ayton so we could get Jokic.

 

[Mainstreet]

Jokic wouldn't make sense here until CP3 is gone. That might also align with him growing frustrated and wanting out of Denver because MPJ can't stay healthy and they can't compete shorthanded.

If the opportunity arises, I'd jump on it but because of their ages I'm not sure it would make sense for a straight swap. It would probably require a third of fourth team to add picks and take Ayton so we could get Jokic.

I'm not sure of the reasoning behind trading Ayton for Jokic.

Nikola is eligible to sign a five-year supermax extension this summer with the Nuggets with projections for around $263 million.

I'm not hearing he wants out of Denver.

 

[Finito]

Well, Ayton is no longer bad outside of 5 feet. He's pretty accurate and reliable from the FT line in. His problems are entirely on D and rebounding. Frequently he gets pushed under the backboard, and is almost always too low, especially considering today's long rebounds via the 3. He's def not a banger-tapper in the MdGee mold. He's superb on the pick and roll---better than McGee. But if they are going to keep him, they need a Paul Silas/Dennis Rodman/AC Green/Barlkey-type power forward, which will mean that Crowder would have to go.

Crowder has not done himself any favors with his 3-point shooting late season. There was an article about one of his playoff games vs. Pels saying that even though he only scored a couple of points, he was singularly responsible for shutting them down. Maybe. I love his energy and effort, but the fact is we lose dozens of second chance balls. That's the only reason most teams hang with us.

So we will have to let Ayton go on the market and hope we fill the void. Because a Jocic type center would not fit in this system. We need a Russell, not an Abdul-Jabbar.

You think Ayton’s problem is defense?

 

[TJ]

Well, Ayton is no longer bad outside of 5 feet. He's pretty accurate and reliable from the FT line in. His problems are entirely on D and rebounding. Frequently he gets pushed under the backboard, and is almost always too low, especially considering today's long rebounds via the 3. He's def not a banger-tapper in the MdGee mold. He's superb on the pick and roll---better than McGee. But if they are going to keep him, they need a Paul Silas/Dennis Rodman/AC Green/Barlkey-type power forward, which will mean that Crowder would have to go.

Crowder has not done himself any favors with his 3-point shooting late season. There was an article about one of his playoff games vs. Pels saying that even though he only scored a couple of points, he was singularly responsible for shutting them down. Maybe. I love his energy and effort, but the fact is we lose dozens of second chance balls. That's the only reason most teams hang with us.

So we will have to let Ayton go on the market and hope we fill the void. Because a Jocic type center would not fit in this system. We need a Russell, not an Abdul-Jabbar.

Who’s gonna “fill the void” for at a discounted price? McGee and Biyambo have proven that they can’t play starter minutes and be consistent, so that’s out. You’re not getting Embiid. Jokic doesn’t fit with CP3. KAT is worthless.

You’re not going to “fill the void” after getting rid of Ayton. The minute he hits the market he’s the most coveted FA, and if he were a UFA, he’d have a max contract by dinner time. Additionally, no free agent of consequence is going to Phoenix (it’s not a destination spot despite the record).

The solution is to re-sign Ayton and not gamble.

 

[elindholm]

You’re not going to “fill the void” after getting rid of Ayton. The minute he hits the market he’s the most coveted FA, and if he were a UFA, he’d have a max contract by dinner time. Additionally, no free agent of consequence is going to Phoenix (it’s not a destination spot despite the record).

I agree that the Suns should try to keep Ayton, but I think you're selling Phoenix short as a free-agent destination. Both Crowder and McGee have been pretty consequential.

 

[TJ]

I agree that the Suns should try to keep Ayton, but I think you're selling Phoenix short as a free-agent destination. Both Crowder and McGee have been pretty consequential.

They are at best second-tier FAs. We can easily raked those in. We also need to consider that CP3 isn’t going to be with us for much longer and will need to replace. We’re short on draft capital. How do we replace that production? Payne isn’t showing he’s nearly good enough to do that

 

[Cheesebeef]

Even as someone who gets frustrated by Ayton, I can’t believe there’s still any doubt about resigning him to the max. He’s 23 years old and already playing at an all star level folks, especially in the playoffs.

 

[95pro]

The only issue with Aytons game is mental. Some lapses in between games and lack of rebounding intuition. Some players are really good at seeing how the ball will come off the rim, simply put Ayton can’t “see” that.
We’re going to max him. End of discussion.
Comparing him and Jokic is definitely not apples to apples.
Maybe once he develops a dribble he can be more compared to Embiid.

 

[Sunburn]

Well, Ayton is no longer bad outside of 5 feet. He's pretty accurate and reliable from the FT line in. His problems are entirely on D and rebounding. Frequently he gets pushed under the backboard, and is almost always too low, especially considering today's long rebounds via the 3. He's def not a banger-tapper in the MdGee mold. He's superb on the pick and roll---better than McGee. But if they are going to keep him, they need a Paul Silas/Dennis Rodman/AC Green/Barlkey-type power forward, which will mean that Crowder would have to go.

Crowder has not done himself any favors with his 3-point shooting late season. There was an article about one of his playoff games vs. Pels saying that even though he only scored a couple of points, he was singularly responsible for shutting them down. Maybe. I love his energy and effort, but the fact is we lose dozens of second chance balls. That's the only reason most teams hang with us.

So we will have to let Ayton go on the market and hope we fill the void. Because a Jocic type center would not fit in this system. We need a Russell, not an Abdul-Jabbar.

I fail to see your connection in logic here. Ayton has been good. Crowder has been bad. So we'll have to let Ayton go.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I fail to see your connection in logic here. Ayton has been good. Crowder has been bad. So we'll have to let Ayton go.

Yeah… I’m a little confused there as well.

 

[elindholm]

They are at best second-tier FAs. We can easily raked those in. We also need to consider that CP3 isn’t going to be with us for much longer and will need to replace. We’re short on draft capital. How do we replace that production? Payne isn’t showing he’s nearly good enough to do that

The Suns won't have the cap room to target a top-tier FA anyway.

 

[Larry Schweikart]

Kareem was good defensively especially in his early years. He was an 11-time NBA All-Defensive Team member.

Not what I meant. So was Wilt. So was Unseld---all were good defenders. I'm talking about type. We don't need the offensive-go-to post up, we need an athletic guy who can rebound first, score second. Again, I don't think Jocic (as a type) would be a good fit here.

 

[Larry Schweikart]

Yeah… I’m a little confused there as well.

I think there are substantially different numbers involved, no?

 

[Larry Schweikart]

Ayton will likely demand first tier money. Crowder probably won't.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see both go.

 

[Chaplin]

Ayton will likely demand first tier money. Crowder probably won't.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see both go.

Enough is enough. Ayton isn’t leaving.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Enough is enough. Ayton isn’t leaving.

Ayton will command a lot of money because he is worth a lot of money. Suns will be paying him even if that means they match another team's offer.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Enough is enough. Ayton isn’t leaving.

I don't think he's leaving either. The only scenario that makes even the remotest sense to me that involves Ayton moving on is the nuclear scenario.

That nuclear scenario also includes Devin taking the LAL express and CP3 retiring, as Sarver clears the books for the sale of the franchise. All done because the League pronounced Robert as Not Completely Guilty while quietly instructing him to step down or sell.

 

[Chaplin]

Ayton will command a lot of money because he is worth a lot of money. Suns will be paying him even if that means they match another team's offer.

But not as much this summer than what they could have paid him last summer.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not what I meant. So was Wilt. So was Unseld---all were good defenders. I'm talking about type. We don't need the offensive-go-to post up, we need an athletic guy who can rebound first, score second. Again, I don't think Jocic (as a type) would be a good fit here.

I'm happy with Ayton but I can't think of a team that couldn't build around Jokic.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But not as much this summer than what they could have paid him last summer.

Are you sure, I had thought it was the same?