The Ayton Plan

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Guys say he sucks all the time. Check any of the recent game threads. It’s always Ayton’s fault

I don’t consider Luka or Young “alphas” AT ALL. Did you see Young in the playoffs this year? Luka for all his talent already has the reputation of someone who doesn’t work hard and let’s his body go in the offseason.

His market is the Max. Like it I said 7 footers who are 20/10 guys and are elite defensively don’t grow on trees.

The term “the max” gets guys in there feelings. When all this gambling money comes into play the next TV contract these max deals today are going to seem like bargains

Luka and young are the definition of alphas. Ayton is the definition of a beta. Those are terms describing one’s assertive personalities.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don’t know who Micheal Stone or his mom is.

Oh well I mean if votes are the be all end all. Hey let me ask you. Would you consider Bam Adabeyo elite? I mean it’s yes or no is Bam elite?

The reason I ask is because they pretty much finished the season with the same defensive rating 104/105. If I’m not mistaken he was #1 for pretty much the whole year for centers when it came to holding guards on switches.

I’ve been plenty hard on Ayton but what I don’t do and what alot of guys do including you is blame Ayton for everything. I’ve tried to trade him multiple times on this board. It’s low hanging fruit and just wreaks of lack of understanding about Basketball.

Bad pass by Paul? Ayton should of caught it

Booker leaves his man on defense? He’s cheating cause he doesn’t trust Ayton

All you gotta do it look at the game thread.

The above is a laughable joke. You’ve been plenty hard on Ayton? Dude, you are totally out to lunch here.

And I have consistently banged on Paul this series and people used to accuse me of hating Bridges because he too floats the same way Ayton does. Both of those guys have premium talent, but neither has the dog inside them to maximize those talents.

And if we lose this series, the blame overwhelmingly lays at Paul’s feet. But Bridges and Ayton will beat blame as well.

As for your proof he’s elite, he’s a mediocre 10th in rebounding (averaging 1 more this season than Amare who you regularly trash as a rebounder (and for good reason) and he’s a BEYOND PATHETIC 50TH in blocking shots. He’s not elite. He’s a good defender and has more range than a lot of big men, but no one in the league, the writers, the coaches regard him as elite at ANYTHING. He has all the tools to be elite but he’s never consistently put them together.

Reality is he’s an above average big man who still has major upside, but that’s it at this point. I know… saying that is some kind of insult to your very being, but it’s reality.

 

[Finito]

The above is a laughable joke. You’ve been plenty hard on Ayton? Dude, you are totally out to lunch here.

And I have consistently banged on Paul this series and people used to accuse me of hating Bridges because he too floats the same way Ayton does. Both of those guys have premium talent, but neither has the dog inside them to maximize those talents.

And if we lose this series, the blame overwhelmingly lays at Paul’s feet. But Bridges and Ayton will beat blame as well.

As for your proof he’s elite, he’s a mediocre 10th in rebounding (averaging 1 more this season than Amare who you regularly trash as a rebounder (and for good reason) and he’s a BEYOND PATHETIC 50TH in blocking shots. He’s not elite. He’s a good defender and has more range than a lot of big men, but no one in the league, the writers, the coaches regard him as elite at ANYTHING. He has all the tools to be elite but he’s never consistently put them together.

Reality is he’s an above average big man who still has major upside, but that’s it at this point. I know… saying that is some kind of insult to your very being, but it’s reality.

Oh I have I’ve even made threads saying we should trade him.

Oh he’s top ten in rebounding? Yeah that sucks. That’s the disconnect here. If your an NBA player and your top 10 in any major category that’s not “mediocre” that’s kind of the exact opposite.

But I asked you a simple question. Is Bam Adebayo an elite defender? Just a simple yes or no.

Considering Bam and Ayton
Have the same defensive rating 104/105
Have the same rebounding average
10.1/10.2
Have the same blocks average
0.7/0.8

So I can only assume you don’t think Bam is elite on defense either right

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Ayton is, and always will be, a 10 ply charmin soft dude who only shows up on occasional nights and will make you cringe when he gets boxed out by a 6' PG. He will get the max due to his potential, but my goodness, he is extremely frustrating to watch at times.

 

[Phrazbit]

That’s a likely better trade but man sabonis is awful defensively.

Yeah, we'd be a totally different team. Ayton's flexibility on defense is something very few centers provide.

We might score more efficiently but our defense would go in the tank. I think this board would grow to haaaaaaaate Sabonis rapidly as we watched teams cut through us like butter in the paint.

I just don't see Sabonis as a fit. If you have him in your starting lineup you'd better have a really freaking good defensive 4 to compliment. Like an Ibaka, or Horford or JJJ, someone who is long and provide some resistance.

Sabonis is invisible on D.

But... I'd take him over Towns, who I think is the most overrated player in the NBA right now.

 

[Big Al]

This is exactly what Ayton needs beside him. A power forward who can defend, rebound and hit the open shot.

Exactly what Ayton & the Suns need1. A 6-9 agile power forward working along side Ayton who can defend, rebound, protect the rim, and create his own shot & do it consistently. I know that's a tall order but it do wonders towards winning and Ayton's game would elevate too.
Sabonis has been mention and he's a more polished offensive player than Ayton and many seem to want him instead of Ayton but I wouldn't want exchange the better offense of Sabonis because of his defensive liabilities he carries with his game. Plus he is the shortest looking 6-11 I've ever seen but he may be a legitimate 6-11 but he doesn't look it. Ayton is still young and hasn't matured fully or caught the fire needed to understand what he's capable of doing yet. If he's gone through a trade after this season. He may catch that fire somewhere else and become an alpha. That fire has got to get lit though.
But today I just want a win any type of win. Be it a ugly win, a 1 point win, or a blowout and hope the entire Suns team are fired up & ready to ball. GO Suns!!!!

 

[Mainstreet]

Exactly what Ayton & the Suns need1. A 6-9 agile power forward working along side Ayton who can defend, rebound, protect the rim, and create his own shot & do it consistently. I know that's a tall order but it do wonders towards winning and Ayton's game would elevate too.
Sabonis has been mention and he's a more polished offensive player than Ayton and many seem to want him instead of Ayton but I wouldn't want exchange the better offense of Sabonis because of his defensive liabilities he carries with his game. Plus he is the shortest looking 6-11 I've ever seen but he may be a legitimate 6-11 but he doesn't look it. Ayton is still young and hasn't matured fully or caught the fire needed to understand what he's capable of doing yet. If he's gone through a trade after this season. He may catch that fire somewhere else and become an alpha. That fire has got to get lit though.
But today I just want a win any type of win. Be it a ugly win, a 1 point win, or a blowout and hope the entire Suns team are fired up & ready to ball. GO Suns!!!!

Too often Ayton is caught defending on the perimeter leaving the lane open because he is caught out of position. He needs another big man to help him defend the rim on switches.

I'd rather keep Ayton over Sabonis. He is the more versatile player offensively and defensively.

Maybe someone on the Suns needs to play the Maxi Kleber role on defending Doncic.

 

[Big Al]

Too often Ayton is caught defending on the perimeter leaving the lane open because he is caught out of position. He needs another big man to help him defend the rim on switches.

I'd rather keep Ayton over Sabonis. He is the more versatile player offensively and defensively.

Maybe someone on the Suns needs to play the Maxi Kleber role on defending Doncic.

Doncic looks for that open lane and is so very good at getting to the spots where no defense is for easy baskets. And we gave that wide open lane to him far too much. That lane has to be clogged by the Suns today and we stay home as much as possible on everyone else. So what if Doncic gets even 50 points today and we can contain or at least limit everybody else. Doncic is going to get his points regardless but we want to get that Win and meet the Warriors in the 3rd round. This opportunity can't be missed. I believe we'll have a fired up Suns team today!

 

[sdscard4]

Ain't giving Ayton the max unless he starts dominating like starting tonight lol
Find someone else.

 

[Mainstreet]

Doncic looks for that open lane and is so very good at getting to the spots where no defense is for easy baskets. And we gave that wide open lane to him far too much. That lane has to be clogged by the Suns today and we stay home as much as possible on everyone else. So what if Doncic gets even 50 points today and we can contain or at least limit everybody else. Doncic is going to get his points regardless but we want to get that Win and meet the Warriors in the 3rd round. This opportunity can't be missed. I believe we'll have a fired up Suns team today!

Agree. The Suns have to make Doncic the primary scorer.

Also they have to do a better job of keeping Brunson out of the lane as well. When Doncic and Brunson get in the lane they either score or pass it out for an open corner 3P. Suns have to take away at least one of these two options.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ain't giving Ayton the max unless he starts dominating like starting tonight lol
Find someone else.

If we find someone else that really meets our needs and is available, great. But then some of the names of yesterday cross my mind - centers such as Dale Schlueter, Dennis Awtrey, Joe Kleine, Luc Longley, Bayard Forrest, Jake Taskalidis, Danny Schayes, Alex Len, Rick Robey, Mark West, Steven Hunter, Lampe, Andrew Lang, Chris Dudley, Joe Barry Carroll, Jake Voskuhl, Daniel Santiago, Pat Burke along with a bunch of centers converted from the forward spots and I start to second guess.

I know that the money is hugely different between DA and those stiffs but we've more than 50 years of proof that we aren't very good at acquiring difference makers at the power positions, especially center.

 

[Hoop Head]

Too often Ayton is caught defending on the perimeter leaving the lane open because he is caught out of position. He needs another big man to help him defend the rim on switches.

Which wouldn't be that bad if he kept his hands up when he tries closing out on shooters. I can't stand watching him just swat at the shot like he's playing volleyball rather than keeping his hand up and possibly blocking it. At the least it would make shooters have to try to compensate by shooting over him but he swats so quickly that they don't need to compensate at all.

 

[Hoop Head]

If we find someone else that really meets our needs and is available, great. But then some of the names of yesterday cross my mind - centers such as Dale Schlueter, Dennis Awtrey, Joe Kleine, Luc Longley, Bayard Forrest, Jake Taskalidis, Danny Schayes, Alex Len, Rick Robey, Mark West, Steven Hunter, Lampe, Andrew Lang, Chris Dudley, Joe Barry Carroll, Jake Voskuhl, Daniel Santiago, Pat Burke along with a bunch of centers converted from the forward spots and I start to second guess.

I know that the money is hugely different between DA and those stiffs but we've more than 50 years of proof that we aren't very good at acquiring difference makers at the power positions, especially center.

I think the Suns have improved dramatically at finding bigs under Sarver compared to the Colangelo years. Almost all of the people you mentioned outside of Pat Burke were Colangelo era Centers. Under Server we've had Old Shaq, Robin Lopez, Marcin Gortat, Tyson Chandler, Alex Len, and Ayton. Not that those guys are great but they're better than what Colangelo rolled out by a good margin. Len was the worst and he was Longley 2.0 and Longley was the best Center from the 90's.

I don't think the history of Centers in Phoenix should be a reason we sign Ayton to a max deal.

 

[sdscard4]

Ayton and Cam J for KAT?

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think the Suns have improved dramatically at finding bigs under Sarver compared to the Colangelo years. Almost all of the people you mentioned outside of Pat Burke were Colangelo era Centers. Under Server we've had Old Shaq, Robin Lopez, Marcin Gortat, Tyson Chandler, Alex Len, and Ayton. Not that those guys are great but they're better than what Colangelo rolled out by a good margin. Len was the worst and he was Longley 2.0 and Longley was the best Center from the 90's.

I don't think the history of Centers in Phoenix should be a reason we sign Ayton to a max deal.

I guess I feel differently than you do about the centers we've had under Sarver. You could build a team around that version of Shaq and be successful but the other guys are basically just bodies.

Paul doesn't have much left, the wildly optimistic side of me hopes he can be a factor this offseason and once again next season. But whenever he's gone, we're done if Ayton is or has been given away for role players and we'll likely lose Booker too.

Signing Ayton to a 5 year max is also a risk but I believe our up-side is much better with him than with any other big man we'd likely be able to add. If he continues to be as inconsistent then we'll just have to live with it for a year or two and hopefully find a suitor during one of his hot stretches.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guess I feel differently than you do about the centers we've had under Sarver. You could build a team around that version of Shaq and be successful but the other guys are basically just bodies.

Paul doesn't have much left, the wildly optimistic side of me hopes he can be a factor this offseason and once again next season. But whenever he's gone, we're done if Ayton is or has been given away for role players and we'll likely lose Booker too.

Signing Ayton to a 5 year max is also a risk but I believe our up-side is much better with him than with any other big man we'd likely be able to add. If he continues to be as inconsistent then we'll just have to live with it for a year or two and hopefully find a suitor during one of his hot stretches.

Agree with all of this.

 

[Mainstreet]

The problem isn't Ayton.

Phoenix is unlikely to find a better center. Familiar problems remain... adding a power forward that can defend beside Ayton and adding a point guard better than Cam Payne.

Earlier in the season I thought the Suns were looking for a third point guard. I didn't realize the backup position would falter so badly.

Dennis Schroeder is looking pretty good right now.

 

[TJ]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This alone is worth the super max

 

[Finito]

The problem isn't Ayton.

Phoenix is unlikely to find a better center. Familiar problems remain... adding a power forward that can defend beside Ayton and adding a point guard better than Cam Payne.

Earlier in the season I thought the Suns were looking for a third point guard. I didn't realize the backup position would falter so badly.

Dennis Schroeder is looking pretty good right now.

Yeah our team has just collapsed. Our great bench Payne, Shamet, Craig, Cam, McGee have pretty much given us nothing in this series and when you combine that with Paul falling off a cliff it’s easy to see why we are going into a game 7.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah our team has just collapsed. Our great bench Payne, Shamet, Craig, Cam, McGee have pretty much given us nothing in this series and when you combine that with Paul falling off a cliff it’s easy to see why we are going into a game 7.

All we can do is hope everyone sucks it up for game 7 against the Mavericks and the Suns find a way back to the team that won 64 games.

 

[Bufalay]

Let him walk!

 

[mjb21aztd]

Let him walk!

No attitude or heart in a big gm 7 yup time for a new team..... awful job by da

 

[Bufalay]

No attitude or heart in a big gm 7 yup time for a new team..... awful job by da

The worst part is that it was totally predictable.

 

[Raindog]

Okay, I'm just going to say it... I wonder if Ayton's biggest problem might be too much time with the hippie lettuce. It might explain his fading in and out motivationally and functionally.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Okay, I'm just going to say it... I wonder if Ayton's biggest problem might be too much time with the hippie lettuce. It might explain his fading in and out motivationally and functionally.

I have no idea but yeah, I've wondered it many times in the past myself.