The Ayton Plan

[Finito]

Come on! This plan worked like gangbusters for Philly getting Harden!

Folks… those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. Reality is that this run is over, a lot like 2010 with a team about to lose it’s ONLY IMPACTFUL BIG MAN, built around an aging PG. we can either try desperately to hang on to a shred of relevance and go pupu platter of whoever the hell this year’s Turkoglu, Warrick and Childress are or we can be smart and start the rebuild around Booker so in two years, hopefully we’re on our way back up and he doesn’t bail on us too.

Make no mistake… the evidence is clear… CP3 will never be healthy in the playoffs, Ayton will never be tough enough in the playoffs and the sooner we surround Booker with young pieces (draft picks hopefully from an Ayton trade/or those picks flipped for an unhappy star), the better chance we have of having a future.

Harden and Lillard are two different players.

Harden is about as lazy a “star” as you will ever find. I wouldn’t of even paid prime Harden. Talent is a question with Harden but it looks like he’s taken his strip club game to the next level in Philly

 

[Mainstreet]

JMO but I really don't see it. I think he's a solid point guard but to me he's more that PG that won't hurt the team but always has you looking for an even better one. Even if you could advance him to prime age I don't think he'd pass current level Curry, Trae, Ja, Lillard, Lamelo (?), Jrue, Shai, Kyrie, Dejounte, Garland or Fox and I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

Yeah, I think you forgot some other players you might rank higher:

Isaiah Canaan, Mike James, Shaq Harrison, Ty Jerome, Elie Okobo, Elfrid Payton, Marcus Banks, Jevon Carter, Negele Knight, Ronnie Price, Yuta Tabuse, Tyler Ulis and Jalen Lecque.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, I think you forgot some other players you might rank higher:

Isaiah Canaan, Mike James, Shaq Harrison, Ty Jerome, Elie Okobo, Elfrid Payton, Marcus Banks, Jevon Carter, Negele Knight, Ronnie Price, Yuta Tabuse, Tyler Ulis and Jalen Lecque.

I'm not sure why you went for the absurd. Are you implying my list of "better" PG's is ridiculous? If so, make your case.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not sure why you went for the absurd. Are you implying my list of "better" PG's is ridiculous? If so, make your case.

It's easy to think you are going for elite point guards when you start your list with Curry unless you mean Seth Curry.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Double LMAO at you for not understanding how Vegas operates when creating these odds

I know how they intel. I have a buddy who has run book for decades with friends and connections throughout Vegas houses and now with almost all the online gambling producers. This is a total stretch on your part. You’re better off sticking with your mysterious un-named sources in the spurs organization. Which we’ve never heard mention of in the decade+ you’ve been posting on ASFN.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's easy to think you are going for elite point guards when you start your list with Curry unless you mean Seth Curry.

That list was to counter your suggestion that Haliburton was star-bound.

I don't think he's bad at all, I'd just be surprised if he's ever one of the top 10 point guards in the game. And in today's game, every team seems to be willing to give up on top 20 point guards in an effort to find a difference maker at that spot.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Harden and Lillard are two different players.

Harden is about as lazy a “star” as you will ever find. I wouldn’t of even paid prime Harden. Talent is a question with Harden but it looks like he’s taken his strip club game to the next level in Philly

In the 29 games lilliard played this season he shot his lowest shooting percentage (about 41%) and his lowest 3pt percentage of his career, averages 7 assists per game, isn’t a good defender and is coming off injury in his age 32-33 season. You don’t give up the bank for that guy. A couple years ago? Absolutely. Now? No way.

 

[Mainstreet]

That list was to counter your suggestion that Haliburton was star-bound.

I don't think he's bad at all, I'd just be surprised if he's ever one of the top 10 point guards in the game. And in today's game, every team seems to be willing to give up on top 20 point guards in an effort to find a difference maker at that spot.

Well, I do think Haliburton has the potential to be a star, maybe not the flashy variety but a star.

If I were thinking about his upside I would be think about players like Davion Mitchell, Shai, Dejounte, Garland or Fox.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not sure why you went for the absurd. Are you implying my list of "better" PG's is ridiculous? If so, make your case.

I don’t mean to speak for anyone but I think his point was we wandered in the desert for a long time without even a passable pg, so even if Halliburton wasn’t at your list’s level he could be a tremendous boost for the team long-term.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That list was to counter your suggestion that Haliburton was star-bound.

I don't think he's bad at all, I'd just be surprised if he's ever one of the top 10 point guards in the game. And in today's game, every team seems to be willing to give up on top 20 point guards in an effort to find a difference maker at that spot.

Ah, got it. Yeah I don’t think he’s a star. But if we had a happy and growing group of young guys in book, Ayton, bridges, and cam Johnson alongside a steady Halliburton I don’t think he would’ve needed to be a star (if we had drafted him). That said, trading him for Ayton without another major piece would be a disappointment b

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, I do think Haliburton has the potential to be a star, maybe not the flashy variety but a star.

If I were thinking about his upside I would be think about players like Davion Mitchell, Shai, Dejounte, Garland or Fox.

Imo no way he approaches SGA or DeJounte. I think fox is outta reach too.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don’t mean to speak for anyone but I think his point was we wandered in the desert for a long time without even a passable pg, so even if Halliburton wasn’t at your list’s level he could be a tremendous boost for the team long-term.

Yeah, the Suns wandered in the wilderness for a long time without a starting caliber point guard unless one wants to count Bledsoe.

 

[Mainstreet]

Imo no way he approaches SGA or DeJounte. I think fox is outta reach too.

I think Haliburton could end up being a better true point guard as a distributor although Murray may be better.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t mean to speak for anyone but I think his point was we wandered in the desert for a long time without even a passable pg, so even if Halliburton wasn’t at your list’s level he could be a tremendous boost for the team long-term.

Okay but I was never suggesting otherwise. There are several posters here that believe Haliburton is a star or on that path and I just don't think he tops out that high. And that doesn't change just because we've had far worse PG's here the past several years.

Future star or not, if I were starting a team I wouldn't mind having Haliburton. But I don't think pairing him with Booker would be ideal.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think Halliburton maxes out at a Malcolm Brogdon
level. Not great but good. He'll probably be in the upper tier of mid level PG's but won't ever be a star. Perhaps like a modern day Mike Conley.

 

[Mainstreet]

Okay but I was never suggesting otherwise. There are several posters here that believe Haliburton is a star or on that path and I just don't think he tops out that high. And that doesn't change just because we've had far worse PG's here the past several years.

Future star or not, if I were starting a team I wouldn't mind having Haliburton. But I don't think pairing him with Booker would be ideal.

No one knows the future but Haliburton is looking pretty good for a 22 year old point guard.

If I were the Kings I might have been more inclined to trade Fox instead of Haliburton.

Tyrese Haliburton - Indiana Pacers Point Guard - ESPN

View the profile of Indiana Pacers Point Guard Tyrese Haliburton on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

 

[AzStevenCal]

No one knows the future but Haliburton is looking pretty good for a 22 year old point guard.

If I were the Kings I might have been more inclined to trade Fox instead of Haliburton.

Tyrese Haliburton - Indiana Pacers Point Guard - ESPN

View the profile of Indiana Pacers Point Guard Tyrese Haliburton on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

I know that team was a train wreck but what confounds me is why the Kings moved Haliburton in the first place, playing alongside Fox seemed like it should have been ided for both of them.

To me, Haliburton is like Brogdon and you're best off pairing him with another PG or combo guard that can deal with the quicker opponents.

I'm sure he'll improve a little but I don't see him getting quicker so I think what you see right now is pretty close to what you get with him - an above average guard.

 

[Mainstreet]

I know that team was a train wreck but what confounds me is why the Kings moved Haliburton in the first place, playing alongside Fox seemed like it should have been ided for both of them.

To me, Haliburton is like Brogdon and you're best off pairing him with another PG or combo guard that can deal with the quicker opponents.

I'm sure he'll improve a little but I don't see him getting quicker so I think what you see right now is pretty close to what you get with him - an above average guard.

The Kings were infatuated with Sabonis, maybe like the Suns.

I wouldn't have traded Haliburton for Sabonis but that's the Kings. I suspect the Pacers preferred Haliburton over Fox but that's looking through my eyes only.

IMO, Haliburton will be much better than Brogdon.

 

[95pro]

Haliburton was the Kings next Doug Christie.

 

[GatorAZ]

No one knows the future but Haliburton is looking pretty good for a 22 year old point guard.

If I were the Kings I might have been more inclined to trade Fox instead of Haliburton.

Tyrese Haliburton - Indiana Pacers Point Guard - ESPN

View the profile of Indiana Pacers Point Guard Tyrese Haliburton on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

Agreed. Folks are sleeping on Halliburton’s ceiling because he’s not an explosive scorer but he’s going to be filthy in 2-3 years. Brogdon entered the league at 24 and was physically ready for the grind right away.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Haliburton could end up being a better true point guard as a distributor although Murray may be better.

I was speaking talent and overall impact on the game. I think both SGA and Murray are combo guards that could be good pairings with a Booker verses pure pgs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Okay but I was never suggesting otherwise. There are several posters here that believe Haliburton is a star or on that path and I just don't think he tops out that high. And that doesn't change just because we've had far worse PG's here the past several years.

Future star or not, if I were starting a team I wouldn't mind having Haliburton. But I don't think pairing him with Booker would be ideal.

I saw your later clarifying post and got it.

Unsure why you think he’s a bad pairing with book?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Halliburton maxes out at a Malcolm Brogdon
level. Not great but good. He'll probably be in the upper tier of mid level PG's but won't ever be a star. Perhaps like a modern day Mike Conley.

That’s pretty darn good. Likely a spot you’re not actively looking to upgrade for a decade.

 

[Bufalay]

Paying guys like Sabonis is a clear way to create a mediocre team. He is high usage and a terrible defender, pretty much the opposite of Ayton.

Ayton has his flaws, but it's crazy to me that he's the guy you're giving up. He's 23! He's already been the anchor to a NBA Finals quality team. He's be incredibly unselfish and played within the system. His ceiling is incredibly high, as well as his floor.

To give up on Ayton at this point for anything less than a star would be a huge mistake. (Sabonis ain't a star)

Can't believe there are still people mentioning Ayton's age. It's meaningless. He's the same player he was 3 years ago. He seems to be getting less comfortable holding the ball and drawing contact than he was as a rookie. Those issues put a massive ceiling on his offensive potential. His defense is dominant sometimes and then Sometimes he goes through the motions for entire games and the suns get killed.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I saw your later clarifying post and got it.

Unsure why you think he’s a bad pairing with book?

More like not ideal rather than bad pairing. Haliburton's size and lack of foot speed would suggest neither one of our starting guards could match up decently with the quick guards. It would also make it a little easier on opposing defenses.