The Ayton Plan

[GatorAZ]

Ayton is 23 and Gobert is 30. I hope you factored that into the equation.

Also, Danny Ainge trades shouldn’t be used to gauge value of other players. He’s pulled off three of the biggest heists of the past 15 years.

 

[Mainstreet]

Also, Danny Ainge trades shouldn’t be used to gauge value of other players. He’s pulled off three of the biggest heists of the past 15 years.

Lesson to be learned, don't trade with Danny Ainge or draft behind him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton is 23 and Gobert is 30. I hope you factored that into the equation.

Go back and read your post. It literally said you’re ignoring the offensive end. That’s what I responded to.

Yes, part of Ayton’s value is he’s young and there’s allegedly untapped potential. But when looking at the two players today, here’s what you got:

Gobert:
Vastly superior rim protector
Vastly superior rebounder
Similar, if not better efficiency offensively
Better at getting opposing players into foul trouble

Ayton:
Superior perimeter defender
More versatile offensively

 

[Mainstreet]

Go back and read your post. It literally said you’re ignoring the offensive end. That’s what I responded to.

Yes, part of Ayton’s value is he’s young and there’s allegedly untapped potential. But when looking at the two players today, here’s what you got:

Gobert:
Vastly superior rim protector
Vastly superior rebounder
Similar, if not better efficiency offensively
Better at getting opposing players into foul trouble

Ayton:
Superior perimeter defender
More versatile offensively

I didn't ignore the offensive end. Are you thinking Ayton has peaked?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I didn't ignore the offensive end. Are you thinking Ayton has peaked?

Sigh, no you said “You are only looking at the defensive side of the ball. Have to consider both ends of the court.” Thereby implying that in the comparison of Gobert to Ayton people were only concentrating on their defense (where Gobert ostensibly has an advantage) and not the offensive end (where your implication is that Ayton has an advantage that counterbalances or exceeds goberts defensive advantage). I was merely providing what happened on the offensive end.

And I don’t think he’s peaked, but he could have. Hence the “alleged potential.”

 

[Finito]

I’m gonna miss this.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sigh, no you said “You are only looking at the defensive side of the ball. Have to consider both ends of the court.” Thereby implying that in the comparison of Gobert to Ayton people were only concentrating on their defense (where Gobert ostensibly has an advantage) and not the offensive end (where your implication is that Ayton has an advantage that counterbalances or exceeds goberts defensive advantage). I was merely providing what happened on the offensive end.

And I don’t think he’s peaked, but he could have. Hence the “alleged potential.”

Here is a better way to do it. These are the stat comparison for Ayton and Gobert for their first four seasons.

Versus Finder | Player and Team Comparison and Head-to-Head Stats - Pro Basketball | Stathead.com

Versus Finder is a comparison tool by Stathead.com that lets you compare players and teams across basketball. If you're looking for head-to-head comparisons, the Versus Finder is your go-to tool

stathead.com

 

[Proximo]

There are not enough teams with space now to even include in a direct or 3 way trade for the money Ayton wants. So, I am not sure how much leverage the Suns lose in a trading Ayton now before getting KD. Early on I would have definitely said that was the case.

The leverage they lose is the ability to move the traded players for KD.

 

[Sunburn]

Here is a better way to do it. These are the stat comparison for Ayton and Gobert for their first four seasons.

Versus Finder | Player and Team Comparison and Head-to-Head Stats - Pro Basketball | Stathead.com

Versus Finder is a comparison tool by Stathead.com that lets you compare players and teams across basketball. If you're looking for head-to-head comparisons, the Versus Finder is your go-to tool

stathead.com

I see Gobert crushing Ayton in impact stats.

Not saying Ayton doesn't have significantly positive impact stats. He does, and it bums me out to lose that. But Rudy is an impact stat god.

 

[Covert Rain]

The leverage they lose is the ability to move the traded players for KD.

If you can't find trade partners willing to pay AD max there isn't opportunity to begin with. 3 way trades are really really hard because what the Suns would except in direct trade might not be what a third team wants. Do other teams want pieces Indiana wants for example? I would imagine if that was the case teams would be jumping in on the Indiana deal. Maybe that still happens but it doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[Finito]

I see Gobert crushing Ayton in impact stats.

Not saying Ayton doesn't have significantly positive impact stats. But Rudy is an impact stat god.

Rudy is the best in the NBA when it comes to rebounds and blocking shots. He would of been a regular all star in the 90s. His feet are glued in the paint though and this is 2022 the game has and is changing more and more.

I actually really like Gobert I think it’s to the point like Ayton he’s getting really underrated. I hope he does well in Minny.

What’s interesting is how all of Gobert’s numbers went down in the playoffs and Ayton’s went up.

 

[Finito]

If you can't find trade partners willing to pay AD max there isn't opportunity to begin with. 3 way trades are really really hard because what the Suns would except in direct trade might not be what a third team wants. Do other teams want pieces Indiana wants for example? I would imagine if that was the case teams would be jumping in on the Indiana deal. Maybe that still happens but it doesn't appear to be the case.

3 way trades are really hard to begin with now factor in all the obscure rules that come with a RFA and a S&T and it’s damn near impossible

 

[Covert Rain]

Rudy is the best in the NBA when it comes to rebounds and blocking shots. He would of been a regular all star in the 90s. His feet are glued in the paint though and this is 2022 the game has and is changing more and more.

I actually really like Gobert I think it’s to the point like Ayton he’s getting really underrated. I hope he does well in Minny.

What’s interesting is how all of Gobert’s numbers went down in the playoffs and Ayton’s went up.

Some would see that as concerning. I mean, it could be teams are scheming for Gobert and neutralizing him because the playoffs are a different beast. In Ayton's case, teams are asking where is this Ayton all the time? Which is what we have been asking since he got here.

 

[mjb21aztd]

I'll be totally sad if all suns manage to get for da is freaking turner better be a side deal for kd trade after with picks....

ughhhhh should got Luka but suns
needed heighth at time awwww well

I'll support suns no matter who they get for ayton but ehhhhhhhhh

 

[Finito]

Some would see that as concerning. I mean, it could be teams are scheming for Gobert and neutralizing him. In Ayton's case, teams are asking where is this Ayton all the time? Which is what we have been asking since he got here.

With Ayton he doesn’t really have those bad night like he used to his swings would go from bad to good

Now he’s pretty consistent and his swings are good to great, but people think those good games are bad while forgetting what he looked like when he was a rookie. He really has come a long way.

His numbers go up because the game slows down in the playoffs and they lean on him more. He’s the safety valve for this team and shouldn’t every good players numbers go up in the playoffs?

 

[Sunburn]

Rudy is the best in the NBA when it comes to rebounds and blocking shots. He would of been a regular all star in the 90s. His feet are glued in the paint though and this is 2022 the game has and is changing more and more.

I actually really like Gobert I think it’s to the point like Ayton he’s getting really underrated. I hope he does well in Minny.

What’s interesting is how all of Gobert’s numbers went down in the playoffs and Ayton’s went up.

This is a good point.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Pacers have met with Ayton but I think this is to be expected. I'd be shocked if they hadn't.

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[Covert Rain]

The Pacers have met with Ayton but I think this is to be expected. I'd be shocked if they hadn't.

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Yeah...no way Ayton's agent has not talked with every team that is a potential trade partner. They are not going to have Ayton go into a deal blind. Makes sense. Now if Windhorst had said they were negotiating a contract? That would be different. Maybe that is what he is referring to?

 

[JerkFace]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Here is a better way to do it. These are the stat comparison for Ayton and Gobert for their first four seasons.

Versus Finder | Player and Team Comparison and Head-to-Head Stats - Pro Basketball | Stathead.com

Versus Finder is a comparison tool by Stathead.com that lets you compare players and teams across basketball. If you're looking for head-to-head comparisons, the Versus Finder is your go-to tool

stathead.com

No, that’s not the better the way to do it because we are talking about their value NOW, not over the course of their careers. This convo sprung from the fact that utah got 5 1sts for Gobert and the conjecture is that the suns wouldn’t get as many for Ayton. Yes, part of Ayton’s value is his upside. But their primary value for trading partners is what they bring to the table and for the foreseeable next 3-4 years. So looking at those ancient stats for Gobert is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Rudy is the best in the NBA when it comes to rebounds and blocking shots. He would of been a regular all star in the 90s. His feet are glued in the paint though and this is 2022 the game has and is changing more and more.

I actually really like Gobert I think it’s to the point like Ayton he’s getting really underrated. I hope he does well in Minny.

What’s interesting is how all of Gobert’s numbers went down in the playoffs and Ayton’s went up.

That’s a legit point. But how do you place a value on it?

 

[Finito]

No, that’s not the better the way to do it because we are talking about their value NOW, not over the course of their careers. This spring from the fact that utah got 5 1sts for Gobert and the conjecture is that the suns wouldn’t get as many for Ayton. Yes, part of Ayton’s value is his upside. But their primary value for trading partners is what they bring to the table and for the foreseeable next 3-4 years. So looking at those ancient stats for Gobert is irrelevant to this discussion.

So a players age doesn’t factor in when comparing players? Huh interesting

 

[Finito]

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What the hell does he mean “it’s only for one year”

So they don’t want Turner and have no interest in keeping him long term.

This is getting worse and worse

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So a players age doesn’t factor in when comparing players? Huh interesting

I guess you can say that if you completely ignore this sentence:

“Yes, part of Ayton’s value is his upside.”

But what they did 8 years ago is completely irrelevant to a trade today.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

What the hell does he mean “it’s only for one year”

So they don’t want Turner and have no interest in keeping him long term.

This is getting worse and worse

This all sounds worse than the Joe Johnson for diaw and a protected 1st deal.