The Big Summer of 2012

[HooverDam]

How soon we forget about the great moves of Jerry's past: Back court 2000, Larry Nance, Hot Rod Williams, Luc Longly, Sam Casell, Robert Horry, Googs, Starberry, Negal Night, Mustaf, Steven Hunter, Marion, and there are more as well. Saver has not done any worse or better than Jerry.

Nonsense. Jerry didn't make every right move, neither does any owner or GM. But Jerry always had winning as his #1 priority and #2 was being good in the community. Sarver hasn't demonstrated half the commitment to winning that Jerry did. When Jerry's teams were close, he'd come up with creative ways to try to push them over the top, Sarver sees the salary cap approaching and trades Kurt Thomas and 2 first rounders for cash.

 

[AzStevenCal]

How soon we forget about the great moves of Jerry's past: Back court 2000, Larry Nance, Hot Rod Williams, Luc Longly, Sam Casell, Robert Horry, Googs, Starberry, Negal Night, Mustaf, Steven Hunter, Marion, and there are more as well. Saver has not done any worse or better than Jerry.

Cassell and Horry are the same deal, Marion was a good move not a bad move (even the overpriced contract was better than the alternative) and why is Larry Nance anywhere near this list? For that matter, why are Negele Night and Steven Hunter listed here. They fall in the "who cares" group for me.

I don't even have a problem with Hot Rod or Googs although it would have been nice if they'd given Williams a better physical before making the trade. Players get injured, I don't see how that gets blamed on the guy that brings them in. Other than Penny, none of those deals had flashing red lights attached to them.

And even if you called each of those a horrible deal and added them all up they would still pale in comparison to the Kurt Thomas trade. And, most importantly, Jerry (up until the deals he made in anticipation of a sell) made those deals in an effort to improve our team, not to improve the bottom line. I don't fault Sarver for trying to manage the bottom line but he's been penny-wise pound-foolish many times in his still fairly short tenure.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Nonsense. Jerry didn't make every right move, neither does any owner or GM. But Jerry always had winning as his #1 priority and #2 was being good in the community. Sarver hasn't demonstrated half the commitment to winning that Jerry did. When Jerry's teams were close, he'd come up with creative ways to try to push them over the top, Sarver sees the salary cap approaching and trades Kurt Thomas and 2 first rounders for cash.

I was going to respond to that post but you did it perfectly. JC made some mistakes over thw years but it was always in an effort to make the team better. He was highly respectes by owners, players.and agents alike. He signed Tom Chambers, Googs, Tisdale, Danny Manning and many others. Player would sign here foe the minimum on q handshake that they would be taken care of later. League rules changed bc of that.

The thing I wont forgive him for is selli.g the team to Sarver.

 

[sunsfan88]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone regret not resigning Amare to the max deal that he wanted?

Its already been one season and he didnt have any injury problems there...plus wouldnt it have been A LOT easier to try and get Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, Eric Gordon or Russel Westbrook in the summer if we still had Amare to use in the recruiting process?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone regret not resigning Amare to the max deal that he wanted?

Its already been one season and he didnt have any injury problems there...plus wouldnt it have been A LOT easier to try and get Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, Eric Gordon or Russel Westbrook in the summer if we still had Amare to use in the recruiting process?

I don't fault Sarver for this. Amare's contract was uninsurable. The Knicks could take that risk, the Suns couldn't. The problem was that he was foolish to think no one was going to offer Amare more than what he did. He should have offered and got and answer or gotten something in return for Amare in trade.

 

[SirStefan32]

Don't regret getting rid of Amare at all. I regret getting nothing in return though.

 

[Griffin]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone regret not resigning Amare to the max deal that he wanted?

Its already been one season and he didnt have any injury problems there...plus wouldnt it have been A LOT easier to try and get Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, Eric Gordon or Russel Westbrook in the summer if we still had Amare to use in the recruiting process?

Again, the decision not to re-sign Amare was not based on last season or even this season but rather the last few years of that contract. The fact that he stayed healthy the first season doesn't really make any difference, that wasn't the issue.

Yes, having him on the team would have helped recruiting other players, but Phoenix is still not New York in terms of marketability and I guess the risk for the franchise was simply too high.

A better hypothetical question would be whether or not the Suns would have been more likely to re-sign Amare if he was a free agent this year instead of last. Under the new CBA the contract length would have been one year shorter, and, more importantly, he would have only been able to get at most 4-years from NY (whether via sign-and-trade or direct signing) so the amount of guaranteed money from NY would have been less than what the Suns offered him last summer.

 

[JCSunsfan]

As far as the 2012 Draft. I am officially on the Anthony Davis bandwagon. Based on what I have seen so far, I would take him over Drummond. The kid is so skilled, so active, so smooth. He has an all around game with both offense, defense and handles. He has a picture perfect jumper out past the 3 pt line. He reminds me of a more athletic Danny Manning.

I think he could easily play the 3 in the nba and at 6-10 220, he would be dominant. He can also be a go-to scorer.

Boy would I love to see a Davis-Morris-Gortat front line. Add FA pg and a competent 2 and your looking hopeful.

Trade Nash, Hill. Let this season sail away.

 

[Phrazbit]

Amare is still the same old Amare. I saw quotes during the last month about how the Knicks needed to focus on defense and be rebounding. Tonight against Golden State for 80% of the game he is letting players like Kwame run right pass him, whiff a layup, then dunk their own put back while he never leaves his feet.

He doesnt get it and he never will. Gets a highlight block here and there during a game meanwhile some supposedly inferior player shoots 75% against him and grabs double digit boards. He will randomly make these great defensive plays but does nothing to be a remotely decent defensive player.

 

[elindholm]

Don't regret getting rid of Amare at all. I regret getting nothing in return though.

But they didn't get nothing in return. All of this talk about cap space next summer is possible specifically because they didn't re-sign Stoudemire.

 

[SunsTzu]

But they didn't get nothing in return. All of this talk about cap space next summer is possible specifically because they didn't re-sign Stoudemire.

It's not really that cut and dry because they did spend a good chunk of the TPE they got from the Amare S&T on guys who will be under contract next year. It's hard to say where the Suns would be had they signed Amare, I'm curious if they would have maxed him if they knew there would be amnesty in the new CBA.

 

[slinslin]

As far as the 2012 Draft. I am officially on the Anthony Davis bandwagon. Based on what I have seen so far, I would take him over Drummond. The kid is so skilled, so active, so smooth. He has an all around game with both offense, defense and handles. He has a picture perfect jumper out past the 3 pt line. He reminds me of a more athletic Danny Manning.

I think he could easily play the 3 in the nba and at 6-10 220, he would be dominant. He can also be a go-to scorer.

Boy would I love to see a Davis-Morris-Gortat front line. Add FA pg and a competent 2 and your looking hopeful.

Trade Nash, Hill. Let this season sail away.

I think Davis is safer pick but Drummond has way higher ceiling. Davis can be a perennial allstar but Drummond can be a legitimate superstar imo.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

But they didn't get nothing in return. All of this talk about cap space next summer is possible specifically because they didn't re-sign Stoudemire.

Exactly, all the top free agents are salivating at the prospects of coming and playing with the Suns. With all of our young talent and excellent front office/ownership, I think we'll be the landing spot for both Howard and Williams!

Amare has his flaws, but I doubt we'll see anyone with his talent in a Suns uniform for awhile. We're certainly going to have the top picks to try and make it happen.

 

[sunsfan88]

^^Exactly!

When will Suns fans get that no allstar player wants to play for this crappy team? Doesnt matter how much cap space we have if nobody wants to play here!

No big time player wants to play for a small market crappy team.

I'm just saying because I dont anyones hopes and dreams crushed thinking some superstar is coming to play here. Sarver can say what he wants but bottom line is he's the worst owner in pro sports and no one wants to be part of that.

 

[Griffin]

When will Suns fans get that no allstar player wants to play for this crappy team? Doesnt matter how much cap space we have if nobody wants to play here!

It's not that they don't want to play for a crappy team, it's that they don't want to play for a crappy mid-market team in Arizona. Miami and NY were both crappy when they signed their all-stars. Phoenix doesn't have much to offer to young players other than warm weather.

But I think most Suns fans do realize that our chances of attracting top tier free agents next summer are very slim. The problem is, there are no other options. The Suns have no assets to trade for talent and rebuilding solely through draft takes many years of lottery basketball without any guarantee of success afterwards.

 

[Gaddabout]

Signing free agents starts with hitting a home run in the draft. One great young player and others will want to play here.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Signing free agents starts with hitting a home run in the draft. One great young player and others will want to play here.

Even more reason to get rid of Nash, etc. for picks, and to get a top 5 pick. That may happen regardless of whether or not we jettison Nash.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's not that they don't want to play for a crappy team, it's that they don't want to play for a crappy mid-market team in Arizona. Miami and NY were both crappy when they signed their all-stars. Phoenix doesn't have much to offer to young players other than warm weather.

But I think most Suns fans do realize that our chances of attracting top tier free agents next summer are very slim. The problem is, there are no other options. The Suns have no assets to trade for talent and rebuilding solely through draft takes many years of lottery basketball without any guarantee of success afterwards.

It's easier to sign free agents if you can sign multipe ones. We will have the space to sign two max free agents. So here is the plan.

1. Trade Nash and Hill for what you can get. I really doubt you could get anything more than a late 1st round pick.

2. Keep your core of youth together, Gortat, Lopez, Keiff. That's it. That is all that is worth keeping Dudley fans. If we keep him around, its OK, but you do not rebuild by putting a groups of bench guys together.

3. Draft top three. Drummond or Davis. This is not the time to think about Nash or Hill. We are going to be bad, so be really bad. Go for it all. Rip off that bandaid all at once.

4. Now you have a core of Keiff, Lopez, Gortat, Davis/Drummond, and maybe another 1st round pick.

5. Use that bit of youth to attract two free agents. If you can sign a FA big, trade Lopez or Gortat for a 2. If you get Davis, he can play the three. If we draft Drummond, trade Gortat or Lopez, whichever will get you a pick or decent player. The other is going to be a backup anyway.

6. Fill out the roster with vet minimum players.

That, at least, is a start. You will have another bad year and add another decent rookie.

 

[slinslin]

I am a huge Michael Kidd-Gilchrist fan.

If we can't get Drummond or Davis that is they guy I take at #3. The guy just seems to be the complete package, high character and great work ethic.

Doesn't hurt he put up 24/19/1 as a SF for Kentucky against Louisville.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So is Nash completely untradeable now?

 

[AzStevenCal]

So is Nash completely untradeable now?

If you mean, could we receive anything of value in return, probably not. I'm sure there are several teams that would love to take him off our hands for a 2nd round pick but that's probably about it. Our best chance is for him to get healthy and then have us go on a good streak leading into the trade deadline. Then, if one of the contenders shows a real need for him we might be able to get a 1st rounder for him.

Steve

 

[HooverDam]

I think the Suns can likely get a late 1st for Nash, it'll just be a matter of finding a place where he can fit.

NY obviously but they seem out of resources to trade. Portland is playing up tempo now, but do they want to trade or bench Ray Felton for Nash? I think both Indiana and Memphis would be good fits for Nash as well, but the idea of him going to such a tertiary market seems bizarre. If Jason Kidd goes down then Dallas would be a good fit, but I have no idea who they send back to make the salaries work. Nash & Dudley for Jason Terry and Beaubois works salary wise, but I'm not sure Dallas would do that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think the Suns can likely get a late 1st for Nash, it'll just be a matter of finding a place where he can fit.

NY obviously but they seem out of resources to trade. Portland is playing up tempo now, but do they want to trade or bench Ray Felton for Nash? I think both Indiana and Memphis would be good fits for Nash as well, but the idea of him going to such a tertiary market seems bizarre. If Jason Kidd goes down then Dallas would be a good fit, but I have no idea who they send back to make the salaries work. Nash & Dudley for Jason Terry and Beaubois works salary wise, but I'm not sure Dallas would do that.

Good grief. Would we be allowed to give Terry right back for free? That guy turns my stomach.

 

[Mainstreet]

If Nash is traded, Dallas is a natural fit. I'm not sure what the Suns could get in return but I see Beaubois as part of the trade.

 

[sunsfan88]

Suns wouldn't give up Dudley, Gortat, Morris or any 1st rd picks along with Nash. Unless its for like a star player or something but that has like .1% chance of happening.