The Big Summer of 2012

[slinslin]

They would or at least should definitely give up Dudley or Gortat along with Nash if it gets them more cap space and/or a high pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They would or at least should definitely give up Dudley or Gortat along with Nash if it gets them more cap space and/or a high pick.

I think it would be absurd to give up Gortat simply for cap space. Effective big men carry a premium and he should only be moved for a deal that is too good to pass up. As far as value goes, he has much more of it than Dudley. Despite your lack of appreciation for him, he's highly regarded throughout the league and is the only player we have that might actually draw more than 1st round value in return. You don't give that away for the long-shot possibility of bringing in a free agent.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think it would be absurd to give up Gortat simply for cap space. Effective big men carry a premium and he should only be moved for a deal that is too good to pass up. As far as value goes, he has much more of it than Dudley. Despite your lack of appreciation for him, he's highly regarded throughout the league and is the only player we have that might actually draw more than 1st round value in return. You don't give that away for the long-shot possibility of bringing in a free agent.

Steve

Gortat has alot of trade value. If we give up Gortat for cap space, we are unlikely to be able to sign a similarly effective player with the space obtained. It would be pointless.

Trading for a pick might be a possibility depending upon the pick.

Dudley is another matter. His cap hit is not that big of a deal, unless you need it to get enough to get a top level player. Dudley along with Nash for a good pick is a no brainer. He is a fan favorite because of his hustle, but he is not a starting caliber player.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it would be absurd to give up Gortat simply for cap space. Effective big men carry a premium and he should only be moved for a deal that is too good to pass up. As far as value goes, he has much more of it than Dudley. Despite your lack of appreciation for him, he's highly regarded throughout the league and is the only player we have that might actually draw more than 1st round value in return. You don't give that away for the long-shot possibility of bringing in a free agent.

Steve

I agree. Gortat and Dudley are two of the Suns best players. One does not trade away a starting center and expect to replace him. Dudley is solid and has one of the most reasonable long term contracts in the NBA.

Amnesty Childress or trade Warrick if one needs more cap space.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Amnesty Childress or trade Warrick if one needs more cap space.

I believe both of these things will happen. If we are going to use the amnesty clause, Childress is the only real possibility, unless someone has some sort of major injury.

This will happen during the summer.

Warrick could be traded. His improved play might allow that to happen.

 

[elindholm]

I'm not sure the Suns can afford to part with Warrick at this point. He's the second-best scorer on a team in desperate need of offense.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not sure the Suns can afford to part with Warrick at this point. He's the second-best scorer on a team in desperate need of offense.

I'm thinking you are using some sarcasm here. The Suns are not going anywhere and should be looking to the future. Warrick being the Suns second leading scorer speaks volumes about the Suns plight. It's time the Suns ownership and FO meet reality.

 

[elindholm]

I'm thinking you are using some sarcasm here.

Not really. You can't just wipe the whole roster clean and start with a couple of draft picks and a free agent. Someone has to fill the other six or seven rotation positions. What would be the point of dumping Warrick in favor of some other flawed backup forward, just for the sake of saying the team is "new"? Warrick's contract runs only through 2014 and right now he's well worth it. I say keep him as long as he fills a need (well, or until his contract runs out, which will certainly be before the Suns can effect a full turnaround).

 

[devilalum]

Not really. You can't just wipe the whole roster clean and start with a couple of draft picks and a free agent. Someone has to fill the other six or seven rotation positions. What would be the point of dumping Warrick in favor of some other flawed backup forward, just for the sake of saying the team is "new"? Warrick's contract runs only through 2014 and right now he's well worth it. I say keep him as long as he fills a need (well, or until his contract runs out, which will certainly be before the Suns can effect a full turnaround).

That's basically what The Heat did but they signed 3 All Stars.

 

[jbeecham]

Warrick does fill a need... he's helping us lose games with his atrocious defense.

The Mavericks were just laughing about how easy it was to score against him.

 

[elindholm]

That's basically what The Heat did but they signed 3 All Stars.

And kept Haslem, whose importance shouldn't be understated.

 

[JCSunsfan]

And kept Haslem, whose importance shouldn't be understated.

We'll keep Kieff and Gortat. That should help.

We need guards. I like Harden and would be willing to target him. Seems that targeting Westbrook this year and then going for Harden next year (after the Grizz match Westbrook) is a good idea. There are a lot of good players in the league. John Wall is wasting away in Washington. I wish there was some way we could get him.

Seems to me that we have these assets going foward:
Gortat, Kieff, Dudley, Lopez and the rights to Brooks.

We have the players who are clearly not part of the future:
Nash (fa), Hill (fa), Childress (certain amnesty), Telfair (cut him now), Ronnie Price (one year contract)

These are sort of on the fence:
Warrick, Frye. Both are on contracts that will not end soon and both do contribute.

So, we need a starters at 3 positions. pg, sg, and sf (unless we go with Warrick there). One of those really has to be a star caliber player. We do not need a star pg necessarily, but a good ball manager and distributor. If we add two good quality players at the other positions, we would probably be OK.

Jeff Green is now among the list of unrestricted free agents this summer. With his heart ailment fixed, he might be a possibility. I wonder if Brandon Roy is really beyond being able to play again.

On a side note. Our mgmt team wanted Shumpert in this last draft, and then took Markieff. Maybe we have some decent talent evaluators after all.

 

[leclerc]

I agree with your assessment, JC. Get some quality guards in pronto. Kieff and Gortat are decent up front. Dudley and Lopez are okay rotation players. We need an all-star or two.

 

[BC867]

Get some quality guards in pronto.

If Michael Redd is healthy and back to his 20 PPG average, he is probably as close to that as we are going to get.

 

[SirStefan32]

If Michael Redd is healthy and back to his 20 PPG average, he is probably as close to that as we are going to get.

Yeah, but the defense is going to suffer once you replace Dudley with Redd.

 

[jagu]

Yeah, but the defense is going to suffer once you replace Dudley with Redd.

Yea but the bench will get much better.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah, but the defense is going to suffer once you replace Dudley with Redd.

One characteristic of historically great NBA teams is that they had star players who were great on both ends of the floor. Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Pippen, Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, even LeBron. Its one of the reasons why Barkley never won a championship. He was the star who refused to put out defensively.

If we are going to build for the future, we must seek a star who is also an excellent defensive player. That's one of the reasons I like Markieff. He is not necessarily a star but he does play a complete game.

Sad to say, its one of the reasons why Nash will never win a championship.

 

[elindholm]

One characteristic of historically great NBA teams is that they had star players who were great on both ends of the floor. Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Pippen, Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, even LeBron. Its one of the reasons why Barkley never won a championship. He was the star who refused to put out defensively.

What's Larry Bird's explanation, then? Or Magic Johnson's? Or Nowitzki's?

If we are going to build for the future, we must seek a star who is also an excellent defensive player.

I don't think anyone sees Redd as a move for the future. He's a short-term experiment designed to help this year's team be a bit more respectable, that's all.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think it would be absurd to give up Gortat simply for cap space. Effective big men carry a premium and he should only be moved for a deal that is too good to pass up. As far as value goes, he has much more of it than Dudley. Despite your lack of appreciation for him, he's highly regarded throughout the league and is the only player we have that might actually draw more than 1st round value in return. You don't give that away for the long-shot possibility of bringing in a free agent.

Steve

Agree Steve. OMG this team finally has a legit center a dirt worker who improves us defensively and we should let them go for what will amount to average picks or the PROSPECT of signing someone???

Ridiculous and stupid.

Exactly, all the top free agents are salivating at the prospects of coming and playing with the Suns. With all of our young talent and excellent front office/ownership, I think we'll be the landing spot for both Howard and Williams!

You mean people won't be running to play for Sarver?

 

[Cheesebeef]

What's Larry Bird's explanation, then? Or Magic Johnson's? Or Nowitzki's?

I think the difference between the guys above and Nash was that they presented absolute match-up nightmares for every other team... and i don't think any of them were as abysmal on D as Nash was. I mean, Bird wasn't a very good defensive player, but he wasn't terrible. He was a great team defender, averaged 1.7 steals per game and 10 rebounds per game.

and Magic averaged 2.0 steals per game and was the biggest matchup nightmare of all time... and 7 rebounds.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think the difference between the guys above and Nash was that they presented absolute match-up nightmares for every other team... and i don't think any of them were as abysmal on D as Nash was. I mean, Bird wasn't a very good defensive player, but he wasn't terrible. He was a great team defender, averaged 1.7 steals per game and 10 rebounds per game.

and Magic averaged 2.0 steals per game and was the biggest matchup nightmare of all time... and 7 rebounds.

I think you're selling Nash short. He didn't play with a Mchale and Parrish to hide his mistakes nor alongside a defensive gem such as DJ. Nash is more than good enough to have led his team to a championship. IMO, the fact we haven't won it all falls elsewhere.

We'd have been a better team if Steve had been a top 10 defender at his position but I can't think of a single playoff run where I'd say that would have definitely been enough to make the difference. As a matter of fact, I think improving Steve's ability to run an offense well against a physical defender would have had more impact on our postseason success than a jump in defensive prowess would have.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think you're selling Nash short. He didn't play with a Mchale and Parrish to hide his mistakes nor alongside a defensive gem such as DJ. Nash is more than good enough to have led his team to a championship. IMO, the fact we haven't won it all falls elsewhere.

We'd have been a better team if Steve had been a top 10 defender at his position but I can't think of a single playoff run where I'd say that would have definitely been enough to make the difference. As a matter of fact, I think improving Steve's ability to run an offense well against a physical defender would have had more impact on our postseason success than a jump in defensive prowess would have.

Steve

this is a good point, but I also believe that Nash also wasn't the unstoppable offensive force that any of those guys were. Nash COULD be shut down and was repeatedly by the Spurs and that too is a reason we could never win a title. Crunch time scoring when the chips were down was always a problem when we got to the WCF or the Conference Semis against SA in 2007. Nash was an incredible orchestrator of the offense and was a gifted offensive player, but again, he didn't create the match-up nightmare on offense, where he was literally going to be able to overcome another team's defense on his own multiple times per series, which is what pretty much every title winning team has had save the Pistons, who were just a defensive dynamo.

 

[AzStevenCal]

this is a good point, but I also believe that Nash also wasn't the unstoppable offensive force that any of those guys were. Nash COULD be shut down and was repeatedly by the Spurs and that too is a reason we could never win a title. Crunch time scoring when the chips were down was always a problem when we got to the WCF or the Conference Semis against SA in 2007. Nash was an incredible orchestrator of the offense and was a gifted offensive player, but again, he didn't create the match-up nightmare on offense, where he was literally going to be able to overcome another team's defense on his own multiple times per series, which is what pretty much every title winning team has had save the Pistons, who were just a defensive dynamo.

Yeah, once the refs go into postseason mode, Nash becomes less effective. IMO, when the game is called properly, he's the second greatest offensive point guard of all time (well behind number one, Magic). Once they are allowed to play him physically he struggles quite a bit.

Opponents can't take him out this way the whole game as even postseason refs rarely allow that but for the few minutes of that end of game crunch-time he often becomes neutralized. But, it's only such a huge factor because he has rarely had offensive weapons playing alongside him that can create their own shot. For the most part, if he didn't generate offense, we had none.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, once the refs go into postseason mode, Nash becomes less effective. IMO, when the game is called properly, he's the second greatest offensive point guard of all time (well behind number one, Magic). Once they are allowed to play him physically he struggles quite a bit.

I'd put him behind Isiah Thomas as well. That was the biggest problem with Steve. He could shoot lights out, but as great as he was at getting to the hole, he just wasn't a guy who could literally create contact and rise up and above in order to get calls like Isiah could, nor could anyone really stay in front of Isiah in his prime.

 

[slinslin]

Isiah Thomas? Talk about most overrated PG of all time. He was not even in the talking for MVP candidate in his time over his own teammates.