The Cam Reddish Thread

[Russ Smith]

I mean Parker had 2 ACL injuries.

Austin Rivers was highly rated in highschool but he was drafted at the end of the lottery. His career probably has been above the average for his draft position, definitely not a bust.

Sure but he wasn't all that great as a rookie before he hurt the knee. Admittedly on a partial season but 25% from 3 negative A/TO ratio and terrible defender. The reason I said knees for Giles and not Parker is I think even when Parker was having a big year at Duke it was somewhat apparent he was a pretty one dimensional player just a scorer.

Rivers was the top rated kid in his class for 2 full years before he got to Duke. I agree he has probably matched his draft position but he's an example of a very highly rated kid going to duke and seeing his draft status plummet. Again I'm not saying it's the fault of Duke, they sign more of them so the odds of more guys losing draft stock is high, but there's a distinct history of highly rated kids going to Duke and seeing their stock fall.

I don't know how you can say Duval wasn't a bust he was again the top rated PG in that class and was rated as high as #3 overall in the class, one year at Duke and undrafted that's a pretty significant drop. Again I don't think it's Duke's fault they didn't ruin him but he's another example of a highly regarded kid at Duke whose stock plummeted. If you'd said before he got to Duke he'd be on a 2 way contract when he got to the NBA I don't think too many would have believed you.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I actually liked Booker when we drafted him so I got that right, my worst one so far was proclaiming that Josh Jackson was going to be the best player in that draft

JJ still could be the best. There is a lot of time left before the careers of that class are over.

 

[Russ Smith]

I actually liked Booker when we drafted him so I got that right, my worst one so far was proclaiming that Josh Jackson was going to be the best player in that draft

I loved Josh too, preferred him to Tatum. I still think Josh has talent but the lack of a consistent shot, and his mental makeup appear to be a pretty big hurdle to overcome.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I love Reddish, you wish he was more aggressive but playing with 2 alph guys like Zion and RJ probably not a shock he wasn't. I think he will probably wind up a pretty good NBA player but there's always a risk he won't because he's a bit too laid back.

I prefer him to Culver right now that's for sure

I think his up-side might be greater than Jarrett's but why are you so strongly in favor of him over Culver? IOW, what is it you don't like about Jarrett? I don't like his first step but other than that I like a lot about him. I could easily see him be a Phoenix era Grant Hill and if he grows another inch or two he might even be able to play some PF in the NBA. His ability to defend up and down the lineup mkes him almost bust proof IMO. Unless we make some trades he's probably a luxury we can't afford to draft this season but I think he's worth a top 6 pick.

 

[SunnyBaller]

I think his up-side might be greater than Culver but why are you so strongly in favor of him over Culver? IOW, what is it you don't like about Jarrett? I don't like his first step but other than that I like a lot about him. I could easily see him be a Phoenix era Grant Hill and if he grows another inch or two he might even be able to play some PF in the NBA. His ability to defend up and down the lineup mkes him almost bust proof IMO. Unless we make some trades he's probably a luxury we can't afford to draft this season but I think he's worth a top 6 pick.

Culver had a really bad tournament, and particularly the championship was awful

 

[Mainstreet]

There are so many negatives on Reddish especially shooting. I will pass.

 

[slinslin]

There are so many negatives on Reddish especially shooting. I will pass.

his shooting is very good

dont get blinded by FG%.

 

[slinslin]

I think his up-side might be greater than Jarrett's but why are you so strongly in favor of him over Culver? IOW, what is it you don't like about Jarrett? I don't like his first step but other than that I like a lot about him. I could easily see him be a Phoenix era Grant Hill and if he grows another inch or two he might even be able to play some PF in the NBA. His ability to defend up and down the lineup mkes him almost bust proof IMO. Unless we make some trades he's probably a luxury we can't afford to draft this season but I think he's worth a top 6 pick.

anything you said could be said about Reddish but Reddish should be a much better shooter than Culver and is considerably bigger.

If Reddish grows one more inch he would have excellent tools to be a PF, though even at 6'8 with a 7'2 wingspan he should be able to cover power forwards as he gets stronger.

 

[Russ Smith]

Trevon Duval was undrafted - how is that a bust?
Harry Giles was the 20th pick and held back by his knee - not a bust
Frank Jackson also a 2nd round pick

Compare that to Kansas

Andrew Wiggins
Josh Jackson
Brandon Rush
Xavier Henry
Ben McLemore
Thomas robinson
Cole Aldrich
Julian Wrigth

all lottery picks in the last 12 years - all busts.
Morris bros, Oubre and Embiid have been their only successes.

Well Rush tore his ACL too.

THe other guys I would agree with although I think you're somewhat punishing Kansas for taking guys who weren't necessarily supposed to be lottery picks and turning them into one, Robinson, Aldrich for sure, McLemore and Wright were on the cusp coming out of HS.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think his up-side might be greater than Jarrett's but why are you so strongly in favor of him over Culver? IOW, what is it you don't like about Jarrett? I don't like his first step but other than that I like a lot about him. I could easily see him be a Phoenix era Grant Hill and if he grows another inch or two he might even be able to play some PF in the NBA. His ability to defend up and down the lineup mkes him almost bust proof IMO. Unless we make some trades he's probably a luxury we can't afford to draft this season but I think he's worth a top 6 pick.

I just didn't like how totally ineffective Culver was in the final 4. Especially against UVA, they didn't double him or do anything out of the ordinary he just could not operate against a good NBA prospect like Hunter. That concerned me because you saw his limited game, always wants to go right, when he can't get by he always spins, guys like that get eaten alive in the NBA sometimes.

not saying he can't play he can, but when he was up against the type of talent he'll see in the NBA, he was not very good.

 

[Mainstreet]

his shooting is very good

dont get blinded by FG%.

So why the low FG% from 2 point range.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Culver had a really bad tournament, and particularly the championship was awful

I don't agree. I was expecting a little better from him but I think "really bad tournament" is one hell of an exaggeration. He played well on defense, did the little things he always does but unfortunately he continued his horrible shooting especially from 3 point range.

He didn't shoot well in the tournament but he drew a lot of defensive attention from every opponent because there was really no one else for the defense to worry about. And for the season he shot just over 30% from the arc but he only shot 26% from deep the last 25 games. So the idea that's floating around that he fell apart because of tough competition doesn't hold up IMO. Obviously they wouldn't have made the tournament without him but despite his shooting, there's no way they advance to the championship game without him either.

I think he'll be a good 3rd or 4th guy on a competitive roster, great on D and decent on offense. I doubt he'll ever be forced to carry a team again, that's just not what he is IMO. But to me he's a very promising complementary player with a high floor and a near all star ceiling especially if he keeps growing.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just didn't like how totally ineffective Culver was in the final 4. Especially against UVA, they didn't double him or do anything out of the ordinary he just could not operate against a good NBA prospect like Hunter. That concerned me because you saw his limited game, always wants to go right, when he can't get by he always spins, guys like that get eaten alive in the NBA sometimes.

not saying he can't play he can, but when he was up against the type of talent he'll see in the NBA, he was not very good.

I think he was worn out, carried too much of a load for too long. It happens often to one man teams just ask James Harden. And Virginia and Michigan State have embarrassed a lot of teams/players.

 

[AzStevenCal]

anything you said could be said about Reddish but Reddish should be a much better shooter than Culver and is considerably bigger.

If Reddish grows one more inch he would have excellent tools to be a PF, though even at 6'8 with a 7'2 wingspan he should be able to cover power forwards as he gets stronger.

Culver interests me for the same reason Clarke does, and that's defense. I don't see that from Reddish. I'm not particularly anti-Reddish but I haven't been impressed by him. Other than Zion, I have doubts about every player in this class including the ones I like - so it's no surprise I have doubts about any Duke player not named Williamson given how I feel about the Blue Devils.

 

[SunnyBaller]

I don't agree. I was expecting a little better from him but I think "really bad tournament" is one hell of an exaggeration. He played well on defense, did the little things he always does but unfortunately he continued his horrible shooting especially from 3 point range.

He didn't shoot well in the tournament but he drew a lot of defensive attention from every opponent because there was really no one else for the defense to worry about. And for the season he shot just over 30% from the arc but he only shot 26% from deep the last 25 games. So the idea that's floating around that he fell apart because of tough competition doesn't hold up IMO. Obviously they wouldn't have made the tournament without him but despite his shooting, there's no way they advance to the championship game without him either.

I think he'll be a good 3rd or 4th guy on a competitive roster, great on D and decent on offense. I doubt he'll ever be forced to carry a team again, that's just not what he is IMO. But to me he's a very promising complementary player with a high floor and a near all star ceiling especially if he keeps growing.

I'm not calling him a bust by any means just because he showed good playmaking ability and defense was terrific, but that tournament really hurt his offensive upside to me anyways it looked like he was overwhelmed and shot poorly against better competition

 

[slinslin]

So why the low FG% from 2 point range.

Impossible to say without more detailed shooting splits

His projections as a shooter are great though

He shot almost 80% from the line as a 6‘8 freshman and his 3pt projection is 38%.


This reminds me of people arguing that Jayson Tatum was a worse shooter than Josh Jackson.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not calling him a bust by any means just because he showed good playmaking ability and defense was terrific, but that tournament really hurt his offensive upside to me anyways it looked like he was overwhelmed and shot poorly against better competition

Well, that was my point, his shooting was already a problem before he faced tournament competition, rather than because he faced tougher competition. He shot 52% from 2 for the year but he was shooting almost 60% from 2 point range when his percentages dropped off the cliff. He shot 48% the last 12 games of the season and it dipped even further in the tourny where he shot just 41% from 2. Which is what leads me to think he probably wore down. Sure, it's possible someone figured him out and every team followed the same scouting report but I'd lean towards hitting a wall.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This reminds me of people arguing that Jayson Tatum was a worse shooter than Josh Jackson.

Who? Where? I thought it was a given that in college Jackson's shot was his weakness?

 

[SunnyBaller]

Well, that was my point, his shooting was already a problem before he faced tournament competition, rather than because he faced tougher competition. He shot 52% from 2 for the year but he was shooting almost 60% from 2 point range when his percentages dropped off the cliff. He shot 48% the last 12 games of the season and it dipped even further in the tourny where he shot just 41% from 2. Which is what leads me to think he probably wore down. Sure, it's possible someone figured him out and every team followed the same scouting report but I'd lean towards hitting a well.

I didn't even think he shot that good actually, looking at his last few games title game 5-22, final four 3-12, elite 8 5-19 he may have been worn down but that doesn't lead too much confidence he'll be that good of a scorer , but could just be a bad slump

 

[Russ Smith]

I think he was worn out, carried too much of a load for too long. It happens often to one man teams just ask James Harden. And Virginia and Michigan State have embarrassed a lot of teams/players.

Certainly true I guess my issue with Culver was Hunter almost made it look easy. I think there was one play in the game where Culver went left and got a layup and the announcer made a big deal out of it because it was so obvious Culver wants to go right. That may have been the prior game I don't recall but I remember I'd been watching the game saying he always goes right, if he can't get by, he spins, and whichever game it was the opponent just sat on that and stopped him.

He's a good not great athlete so he can't just elevate over guys and that seemed to really bother him against Hunter, he couldn't get by him and he couldn't shoot over him. But you are right he had a tremendous amount of pressure on him to carry that offense. Hell even Klay THompson you watch him now with Durant out, when Steph and Draymond are not in the game Klay looks like a pretty average player, can't really beat you off the bounce, dependent on getting open looks or in transition. But Klay is a spectacular shooter with deep range, Culver might be that kind of defender but he's never going to shoot it like Klay does IMO.

He's young but he was also pretty well coached in college so if his left hand is that weak now, there's no guarantee it'll get significantly better.

We'll see I don't think he's a bust, but I don't think he looked like a lottery pick against good opponents.

 

[Yuma]

Who? Where? I thought it was a given that in college Jackson's shot was his weakness?

I agree. That was the biggest con on Jackson. It was projected it would take him 4-5 years to fix it. Defense was his strength.

 

[Mainstreet]

Impossible to say without more detailed shooting splits

His projections as a shooter are great though

He shot almost 80% from the line as a 6‘8 freshman and his 3pt projection is 38%.


This reminds me of people arguing that Jayson Tatum was a worse shooter than Josh Jackson.

Shooting was not a strength for Josh Jackson which gives me pause about Reddish.

I believe in drafting BPA but I'm not sure Reddish fills the bill.

 

[Proximo]

Those videos of Reddish are impressive.

The guy looks like a stud in the gym. Why is it he could not produce at all at Duke? is it just a confidence thing?

Culver looks darn good too. For a guy that supposedly can't shoot, that looked very good although his form could be better.

 

[GatorAZ]

Can't say it's because they went to Duke I guess but Jabari Parker not nearly as good as projected. Austin Rivers #1 rated in his class, backup in the NBA, Ryan Kelly highly rated to Ryan who? Deryck Thornton going on his 3rd school now from top rated PG in his class to moving up a year to help out Duke, to bust. Chase Jeter looked like a bust too although he was pretty good at Arizona last year. Bolden a bust so far, Giles it's the knees I won't blame Duke, Frank Jackson is in the NBA but again not nearly as good as people thought he was going to be. Bagley was great but Carter, Duval and Trent Jr were all underwhelming in college.

I forget which class but Joey Baker is another guy who moved up a class to help Coach K and then barely played, I think he's still there.

But just because a kid is a 4 or 5 star in HS doesn't mean he'll be a good NBA player.

Roy has a lot of underwhelming pros as well. Granted they don’t really have a OAD factory like coach K but this will be their first draft with two, Little and White. Little is another guy that kinda flopped and would’ve probably been better off at Arizona. Like Reddish he’s pretty raw but a freak physically. He’s got a higher reach and jumped 38.5” at the combine.

 

[leclerc]

Everyone knew Jackson couldn't shoot. He couldn't even shoot free throws. He's improved somewhat though, so I'll give him another season but he'd better start off on the right foot and play more under control even with Booker in the lineup (given he's not injured again).

Cam Reddish is okay by me. Sure we could rather use a PG or a PF (no sheet!) but a top talent that disappeared on a top club could still turn out to be pretty good. At least he can shoot (a highly regarded NBA skill -- tell that to our scouts).