The Cardinals "created a monster"

[dreamcastrocks]

All of this is really weird anyway. Kyler played above average for his first 3 years in the league. The 4th year, he struggled but so did nearly everyone on the team, in all 3 phases of the game. Now he is hurt and surely won't be the same player in 2023 anyway.

We won't know for sure if he will be closer to years 1-3 Kyler or year 4 Kyler until year 6.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Usually, but not always. I remember studying so hard for a test, I failed it even though I knew all of the material.

But you would say that as a whole, studying and preparing made you nearly a straight A student.

Do you see how that could possibly apply to Kyler and his alleged study habits?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

But you would say that as a whole, studying and preparing made you nearly a straight A student.

Do you see how that could possibly apply to Kyler and his alleged study habits?

No, I would say my intelligence and desire to be a winner prompted me to study more making me a straight A student.

You usually can't take someone with an 80 IQ and make them a straight A student with just hard work and studying.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It could be the exact opposite. Sometimes you can study TOO much and be burnt out by the time you take the actual test.

Speculation is fun.

Looks more like burying your head in the sand is fun for you because this isn’t speculation.

This is an actual Cardinals player saying it’s NOT the exact opposite. It’s apparently the exact same problem that Kyler unknowingly admitted about himself.

So it’s not speculation. It’s more evidence backing up Kyler’s own words.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

No, I would say my intelligence and desire to be a winner prompted me to study more making me a straight A student.

You usually can't take someone with an 80 IQ and make them a straight A student with just hard work and studying.

Lol, of course you can't make an idiot a Rhodes scholar. But the difference between your success and failure was your HARD WORK.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand vis a vis Kyler. He's obviously very talented physically and not a dummy.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Looks more like hurting your head in the sand is fun for you because this isn’t speculation.

This is an actual Cardinals player saying it’s NOT the exact opposite. It’s apparently the exact same problem that Kyler unknowingly admitted about himself.

So it’s not speculation. It’s more evidence backing up Kyler’s own words.

The speculation is that he is STILL not studying. I admit he didn't study as much before.

I won't speculate that it is still that way. Focus on the timeline.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Lol, of course you can't make an idiot a Rhodes scholar. But the difference between your success and failure was your HARD WORK.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand vis a vis Kyler. He's obviously very talented physically and not a dummy.

Because that isn't the only factor. Unless I was doing a group project, my hard work and success was only caused by me and my effort. There are at least half a dozen people critical to Kyler's success, not just himself. More like dozens.

Take the argument in reverse. When the reports came out 1.5-2 years ago that he wasn't studying enough, why wasn't he playing poorly then? If he wasn't studying film enough, he shouldn't have been successful, right?

 

[PACardsFan]

KK was fired because everyone thought he would be the one to unlock KM potential. That didnt happen, they butted heads in public, so KK was shown the door. Reflecting back on the Saints game/the calm the F down stuff: the look on KK's face looked like a man who knew he was done in AZ. That was Kyler firing him.

Who is everyone? The media has no stinking clue if they thought that KK and KM had some type of close relationship coming into the 2019 season. The reality is that Murray has been running away from Kliff ever since their days at A&M. It was Kliff that was obsessed with and fixated on Kyler. He did his best to lure Kyler to Tech, and Kyler had no interest whatsoever. If Kliff got his way, Mahomes would have been a 2nd string QB & would have transferred. I know for a fact that even though Murray was tickled to be the 1st pick in the draft, he wasn't at all enthralled with the fact that KK would be his HC. Those that thought or even still think that KK's offense would be the only type of offense that Kyler could succeed in couldn't be more wrong. Even Sean Payton has said & emphasized that Murray can play in ANY NFL offense. Murray has taken many arrows, and some deserved, but he will be chomping at the bit to prove to people that he is still one of the best QB's in the NFL.

 

[SoonerLou]

People develop at different rates. It's that simple.

Ok, do you believe that Kingsbury was working well with Kyler? I don't.

It's not an excuse, it's an analysis of the situation. Good, bad, or indifferent, the Cardinals are tied to Murray for at least a couple more years. Kliff wasn't working well with Kyler. The proof is on the field. The proof was how often Murray missed open receivers. Kliffs job is to teach and develop Murray, and that wasn't happening enough.

I don't think Kyler is lazy. Look at his physique! The kid does work...he's just not working at what will really make him great. It takes the right motivator to get that out of him. I know this  because of my 18 years in the United States Army. Every person is motivated differently and it will take a different person to unlock Murray.

Fair points. I was listening to someone talk about the Patriots system and culture. And the difference there is the "Why"

Everything has a why to it and allows players to really engage with the process. The know the purpose of everything they are doing from A to Z and it really helps the process. Cam Newton learned more in 4 months with the Patriots than 9 years in Carolina.


Its why I say its Payton (or someone of that ilk) or bust. Cause I think while Kliff was a great worker he was also learning the NFL as well. Kyler needs the Why of it all and that starts with someone way more knowledgeable (in his mind) than him.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Saw that too it's a bit puzzling? He's saying if you have more than 12.6% of your cap tied up in your starting QB you can't win. First it's an odd number to pick so it's clearly reverse engineered. Second I could just as easily say if 40% of your starting OL has to be convinced NOT to retire, and then doesn't play well, and then gets hurt and misses most of the year, you were probably better off NOT convincing them to come back in the first place. Not that he faked his injury but his situation was so predictable he retired, lost weight, then decided to come back but as the C, then Hudson unretired so he had to bulk up to play guard again got hurt and missed most of the year.

We will probably never know but I do think if you're a Cardinal player right now, Murray is the easy guy to blame because of his contract.

I would assume if it was THAT obvious, he's a "monster", that the Cards wouldn't have fired the head coach and pushed out the GM to cover for Murray? I figure the truth is more in the middle, Kyler sucked this year, he needs to do things differently in the future, but in the end the Cards were convinced Kliff wasn't the right guy, and clearly keim has other issues and it contributed to him mismanaging the cap and guys like Justin Pugh were part of that because we probably should have let him retire.

Pugh is a joke, always has been and was a terrible signing from the start. I’d put him at the top of the list of culprits for turning this team soft as can be.

 

[kerouac9]

KYLER said something to the effect two years ago. And now we have teammates backing up that up.

Sorry, there is just way too much smoke from Cardinals players and Kyler HIMSELF to believe there isn’t fire about how much work he actually puts in to being a great QB. Which is what he’s paid to be. And we’ve seen over that play out on the field where as more tape gets out on Kyler the worse he gets… every single season the last three years.

Imagine ownership putting an unprecedented study clause into the contract and still insisting that there's no reason to believe that Kyler doesn't do the book work. It's WILD.

 

[kerouac9]

The speculation is that he is STILL not studying. I admit he didn't study as much before.

I won't speculate that it is still that way. Focus on the timeline.

So you're saying you don't know, but it could be that getting paid life-changing money finally convinced Kyler Murray to change his ways and start crunching film.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So you're saying you don't know, but it could be that getting paid life-changing money finally convinced Kyler Murray to change his ways and start crunching film.

Exactly.

Is it possible that Kyler is still coasting. Sure.
Does anyone on this board know for sure? Nope.

 

[Devilmaycare]

Because that isn't the only factor. Unless I was doing a group project, my hard work and success was only caused by me and my effort. There are at least half a dozen people critical to Kyler's success, not just himself. More like dozens.

Take the argument in reverse. When the reports came out 1.5-2 years ago that he wasn't studying enough, why wasn't he playing poorly then? If he wasn't studying film enough, he shouldn't have been successful, right?

You're acting like he played amazing his first 3 years. He didn't. The last half of 2021 he was complete garbage. In the other 2.5 years he was hit or miss. Either MVP or replacement level play. He was getting by on his out of this world natural ability, not because he knew the game. When defenses adjusted for him he couldn't, or at least didn't, adjust too. Look at how many in game complaints all of us have had about him not making progressions, running out of bounds early, etc. All stuff that takes study time and mental recognition.

Right not he's turning into another Kappernick or other gimick QB that was only good until the defenses adjusted to what their play. If he doesn't start studying and adjusting his game he's going to be another busted top QB pick. He can turn it around though if he adjusts his attitude and work ethic.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You're acting like he played amazing his first 3 years. He didn't. The last half of 2021 he was complete garbage. In the other 2.5 years he was hit or miss. Either MVP or replacement level play. He was getting by on his out of this world natural ability, not because he knew the game. When defenses adjusted for him he couldn't, or at least didn't, adjust too. Look at how many in game complaints all of us have had about him not making progressions, running out of bounds early, etc. All stuff that takes study time and mental recognition.

Right not he's turning into another Kappernick or other gimick QB that was only good until the defenses adjusted to what their play. If he doesn't start studying and adjusting his game he's going to be another busted top QB pick. He can turn it around though if he adjusts his attitude and work ethic.

I specifically said above average, not amazing.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Imagine ownership putting an unprecedented study clause into the contract and still insisting that there's no reason to believe that Kyler doesn't do the book work. It's WILD.

Are you not understanding my position on purpose?

 

[speedy]

So Kyler Murray is a monster, the whole team knows this so clearly the ownership knows this and the acting GM's know this. ANd yet they fired the coach for not stopping the monster THEY created by giving Murray the contract?

That's my point, I wanted Kliff to be fired but if the contract created the Murray monster, that's not Kliff's fault. But they fired Kliff, which tells me the people still in charge do NOT think the contract was the issue.

Well, in my professional line of work, we call this “turning a blind eye.” As long as you ignore it and don’t acknowledge it, it doesn’t become a problem that has to be dealt with.

Cutting KK and SK comes with a lot less stress than pointing at Murray.

The cardinals f up giving Murray his extension IMO (and I maintained that opinion last yr). There’s problems throughout the org, but Murray is something they have to try to salvage.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, in my professional line of work, we call this “turning a blind eye.” As long as you ignore it and don’t acknowledge it, it doesn’t become a problem that has to be dealt with.

Cutting KK and SK comes with a lot less stress than pointing at Murray.

The cardinals f up giving Murray his extension IMO (and I maintained that opinion last yr). There’s problems throughout the org, but Murray is something they have to try to salvage.

To be clear I'm not absolving Murray of blame but I am saying if the Cards fire Kliff that tells me they don't think Kliff did his job. His job was to help Kyler Murray become a great NFL QB. He's extremely talented and he's done lots of good things in his 4 years in the league but he has not taken that next step and actually regressed this year. Maybe some of it early was due to the time he missed in camp because he first had Covid and then had a sore arm. But basically the whole year he didn't look right.

It's Kliff's job to help him get through that and I think in the end, they decided he didn't do his job very well

 

[PACardsFan]

To be clear I'm not absolving Murray of blame but I am saying if the Cards fire Kliff that tells me they don't think Kliff did his job. His job was to help Kyler Murray become a great NFL QB. He's extremely talented and he's done lots of good things in his 4 years in the league but he has not taken that next step and actually regressed this year. Maybe some of it early was due to the time he missed in camp because he first had Covid and then had a sore arm. But basically the whole year he didn't look right.

It's Kliff's job to help him get through that and I think in the end, they decided he didn't do his job very well

Agree. What's not being emphasized enough on this board is that KK's system forced Kyler to have to play like Superman in order for us to be successful. Payton has pretty much already emphasized that Murray was not put in a position to consistently succeed. I personally don't think that the Cardinals made a mistake in extending Murray, nor do I think the Cardinals feel that way either. But now Bidwill has to protect that investment by bringing in a HC that can leave no doubt as to whether Murray is the answer or not. One thing is certain, Vance Joseph isn't going to clear up that ALL IMPORTANT question.

 

[Zalixar]

This offseason is going to be soooooo fuuuun.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

To be clear I'm not absolving Murray of blame but I am saying if the Cards fire Kliff that tells me they don't think Kliff did his job. His job was to help Kyler Murray become a great NFL QB. He's extremely talented and he's done lots of good things in his 4 years in the league but he has not taken that next step and actually regressed this year. Maybe some of it early was due to the time he missed in camp because he first had Covid and then had a sore arm. But basically the whole year he didn't look right.

It's Kliff's job to help him get through that and I think in the end, they decided he didn't do his job very well

You mean it isn't all on Kyler suspected lack of studying?

 

[FB94]

Whoever the new HC and/or OC is needs to be that Alpha male with Kyler. I’m done with the coddling of this “kid”. Tough love never hurt anyone.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

He's not studying enough film. That's now a fact. It's been reported a number of times from various sources.

Its either laziness, arrogance or both. Neither are good.

Here is one of those sources...

“I think I was blessed with the cognitive skills to just go out there and just see it before it happens. I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film. I don’t sit there for 24 hours and break down this team and that team and watch every game because, in my head, I see so much.” - Kyler Murray

 

[PlayerHater]

Kyler has done well at times early in his career off sheer athletic ability and the league not really knowing how to deal with him. As he has been figured out defenses are taking away what he's good at and forcing him to do the things he's not. What are the odds a small, injury prone QB who does not really like to study and has been mentally and physically breaking down will all of a sudden live up to his first overall pick and top 3 contract? I don't believe a coaching change will change what Kyler is.

Hopefully I'm wrong as it has really sucked watching this team play football.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Here is one of those sources...

“I think I was blessed with the cognitive skills to just go out there and just see it before it happens. I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film. I don’t sit there for 24 hours and break down this team and that team and watch every game because, in my head, I see so much.” - Kyler Murray

And what year was that quote from? 2021.