The Cardinals draft board: Here's my guess on their top 10 and why.

[Duckjake]

3) Was unprepared to run the 40 at his campus workout. Was unwilling to run short or long shuttle drills at campus workout. Had to be CONVINCED to run 40 at campus workout.

The story reported locally was he ran because he saw some of his teammates running and decided on his own to do it. I haven't seen anything with any proof that he had to be convinced or goaded into running.

Does someone have tape of Young having to be convinced to run?

EDIT: I have seen one source that said that Titans National Director of Scouting, C.O. Brocato, encouraged Young to run the 40.

 

[Duckjake]

Several participants, including Huff, Griffin and Wright, also took part in the recent NFL Combine. Huff clocked a blazing 4.34 40 in Indianapolis and he held pat on that number and did not run at Pro Day, but he did participate in the short shuttle (3.96, 4.05), the three cone drill (6.68, 6,74) and worked in positional drills at both corner and safety.

Huff (5-11 7/8, 198) said he has been focusing on his footwork and his mission at Pro Day was to "go out and prove that I can play corner and safety, both, depending on the team." Huff said he and his agent have narrowed their attention to San Francisco, Detroit, St. Louis and Baltimore, and he added that he hopes to go no worse than No. 15 in the Draft...

Here's a blurb from Inside Texas Magazine. How do those drill times compare to other DB's?

 

[kerouac9]

Come on K9, those are hardly 'maturity issues' you have brought up here. Someone like Winston Justice has 'maturity issues' because he has had his fair share of incidents at USC.

Hiring a family friend as an agent isn't what I would call a 'maturity issue'. A mistake? It looks like it based on what I have seen so far and this whole wonderlic fiasco. But I don't see how that is a maturity issue? He made a mistake with an agent - he isn't the first and won't be the last in that regard.

As far as the 40 at his personal workout. You don't HAVE to run at your personal workout. From everything I have read the questions are about his ability to run a pro offense, arm strength, arm mechanics etc - not his physical talent. So it cracks me up when suddenly Young doesn't plan to run that it's a big deal. And then when he is goaded into running at his workout everyone is 'OMG he isn't that fast' even though he wasn't prepared to run or anticipated having to run the 40 at his workout.

The fact that he runs with posse shouldn't be an issue ether. Your boy Adam Jones runs with a posse. But it's a big deal when Young does? I would gurantee that there are tons of pro athletes that run with a posse in the NFL and it doesn't affect them one way or another.

Call it whatever you want, but the guy has been making bad decisions basically since he declared (and at this point, maybe him declaring wasn't even the best decision that he's made). I'd like to think of that as "maturity," in the hope that he'll eventually grow out of making stupid decisions. If they're not maturity issues, then he's just a poor decision-maker, and that's worse.

Man, you're really backpedaling for your boy. I guess that's what Horns, do, though. I mean, it's not like Cedric Benson robbed some guy's house or anything, right? I like Vince Young and hope we take him at #10 if he's available, but let's call a spade a spade here. There are questions about what's going on in this guy's head, and people are piling on him all over the place.

 

[Stout]

first of all i am not making things up. second of all why would the media be making these things up? isn't the media supposed to be hyping this kid up, instead of knocking him down. there is sometimes truth in media and not a lot of smoke screens.

First, not making things up? What major outlet predicted he would be a WR right before he won the title game? Source please? Didn't think so, because you made it up.

Second of all, the media can either make a guy a darling or can tear a guy down. It was predicted right after he won the title. The media loved him then, but people predicted that the media would turn on him leading up to the draft. They did. Certainly there are many questions surrounding Young coming into the NFL, but there's also a lot of BS floating around out there right now, and unfortunately a lot of people take it as cold fact. I'd say, from what we're hearing, it's probably half real concerns and half BS.

 

[Stout]

and people are piling on him all over the place.

Exactly. That's probably what 50 percent of the garbage we're reading is...piling on. Look, there are plenty of concerns with the kid. I'm just sick of much of the media and so many uninformed (and other informed) fans going ape over ripping the guy to shreds. He has questions, but he's not illiterate, not an imbecile, and not as unmotivated as a lot of people make out. Man, some folks need to chill out.

And I'm not getting hysterical...Young isn't even my pick. I want Cutler *waitingforyourinevitableCutlerrant*

 

[Duckjake]

Man, you're really backpedaling for your boy. I guess that's what Horns, do, though. I mean, it's not like Cedric Benson robbed some guy's house or anything

That is an outright lie. Worse, it was proven to you last year that it was not true.

 

[Redsz]

Call it whatever you want, but the guy has been making bad decisions basically since he declared (and at this point, maybe him declaring wasn't even the best decision that he's made). I'd like to think of that as "maturity," in the hope that he'll eventually grow out of making stupid decisions. If they're not maturity issues, then he's just a poor decision-maker, and that's worse.

I guess we have different views on 'maturity'. Pulling a fake gun on someone is a maturity issue. Faking your own death is a maturity issue.

Selecting someone to be your agent because they are a family friend is more myopic than a lack of maturity.

Man, you're really backpedaling for your boy.

What the heck have I back peddled on? My postion hasn't changed on this whole Wonderlic deal and I have never commented on his choice of agent until now.

I guess that's what Horns, do, though. I mean, it's not like Cedric Benson robbed some guy's house or anything, right?

I wouldn't know anything about being a Horn since I never attended UT. So you can save the 'UT homer' implications on this issue.

As far as Benson being a 'thief' that issue was debunked a year ago.

I like Vince Young and hope we take him at #10 if he's available, but let's call a spade a spade here. There are questions about what's going on in this guy's head, and people are piling on him all over the place.

Yes, there are issues. But it seems like nothing but nit picking and things being blown way out of proportion from my POV.

People piling on the 'VY suxors' bandwagon is no big deal. It's won't have any implication on he performs in the NFL. And then when this issue blows over - the media and the fans can move onto the next media storm.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Just curious. If you get a lefthanded QB to replace a righty what adjustments do you have to make to your offensive line?

Well, it makes your most important line position RT instead of LT. Can you imagine Ross as the RT against a left handed QB?

 

[kerouac9]

And I'm not getting hysterical...Young isn't even my pick. I want Cutler *waitingforyourinevitableCutlerrant*

Read your own posts, Stout; your tone has been increasingly paranoid and hysterical ever since just before free agency started. I'm saying this out of concern for your mental well-being.

That said, I don't know why anyone likes Cutler as a Top 10 pick, and I've asked multiple times for one of his champions to make the case for him. The best I've been able to come up with so far is "I just don't want the Cards to pass on another first-round quarterback, so let's just take this guy." That's not a very good arguement for me.

 

[kerouac9]

Well, it makes your most important line position RT instead of LT. Can you imagine Ross as the RT against a left handed QB?

Sigh. No it doesn't. Tony Boselli was still the LT when Mark Brunell was a lefty quarterback in Jacksonville and was the best and most important player on that line. The LT in Atlanta where Michael Vick plays is more imporant than their RT. Left tackle remains the most important position on the line because that's usually where the best defensive pass-rusher is located.

 

[john h]

I asked this on another thread, but have the Cardinals ever traded up in the first round? I don't have the best memory in the world so if somebody could show a time when the Cardinals traded up in the first round it would be appreciated.

Not in my memory and I have been watching them since 1945.

 

[john h]

I believe they traded up for Eric Swann.

GBR
40

I remember watching that draft in 1991 and we took Swann with the #6 pick. Kiper thought it was a good pick. Of course there was a guy that went in round II named Brett Favre. I think that was the year the Cowboys drafter Harper #1 and could not come to contract terms and he went to Canada. I do not recall a trade up.

 

[Duckjake]

Sigh. No it doesn't. Tony Boselli was still the LT when Mark Brunell was a lefty quarterback in Jacksonville and was the best and most important player on that line. The LT in Atlanta where Michael Vick plays is more imporant than their RT. Left tackle remains the most important position on the line because that's usually where the best defensive pass-rusher is located.

So defenses wouldn't flip their DE's to still bring the pass rusher from the QB's blind side? Offenses don't flip their alignments for the Lefty? I've never really paid much attention to that part of the game.

It would make sense that they don't make any real changes because TB had Simms as a backup and you wouldn't do that if you had to retool your offense for the southpaw.

Guess I should have paid more attention to who was lining up where when when Simms was at Texas.

 

[john h]

Just curious. If you get a lefthanded QB to replace a righty what adjustments do you have to make to your offensive line?

You switch everyone on the right side to the left side and draft a left handed center.

 

[JeffGollin]

Cardinal boards since DG took over ranked prospects according to "best player" though he has inferred in past comments that position-need (or abundance) could play a part in shading the player ratings.

I interpret this to mean that if there were a cluster of players rated within one or two points of one another, the Cards might consider this a "tie" and pass over the highest rated prospect in favor of one considered a better "fit" for the football team. (Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I think they do).

Therefore, while DG's philosophy would rule out reaching for a player to fill a need, it would provide enough wriggle room to give more weight to "need" - all other things being equal (or close to it).

What the Cardinals' board looks like is a crapshoot. My guess is that it will be according to Best Player, and therefore, (based on my own judgment) I think it might look like the following:

#1-Reggie Bush
#2-Mario Williams
#3-'Brickashaw Fergeson
#4-Vernon Davis
#5-Vince Young
#6-AJ Hawk
#7-Jay Cutler
#8 -Matt Leinart
#9 or later - Who the heck knows? Name your poison.

But that's based on my own personal views - I doubt there's any regular on this board who has access to how RG and DG actually rate this year's prospects. (We're still flying blind).

 

[Stout]

Read your own posts, Stout; your tone has been increasingly paranoid and hysterical ever since just before free agency started. I'm saying this out of concern for your mental well-being.

That said, I don't know why anyone likes Cutler as a Top 10 pick, and I've asked multiple times for one of his champions to make the case for him. The best I've been able to come up with so far is "I just don't want the Cards to pass on another first-round quarterback, so let's just take this guy." That's not a very good arguement for me.

Right....because you actually must not be literate. I was hysterical BEFORE FA started, because it sounded as if we were going to tank it, and I've been quite happy since FA opened. I haven't even freaked out over the O-line like a lot of people. I try to keep people from piling on Young because, warts and all, they're feeding into the media over-hype on the guy. Concern for my mental well-being. Right. If I believed you actually had concern and not high-handed contempt and scorn, I might thank you. Quite the contrary, you're talking down to me, and doing so rather amateurishly, so you can cease and desist, please.

As for Cutler? Not that anybody needs to actually justify anything to you, because your opinion means nothing more than anyone else's, but the kid has all the mechanics, and has been scouted as a top-10 QB. He's also the kind of strong pocket passer I like. That's why I like him.

 

[kerouac9]

So defenses wouldn't flip their DE's to still bring the pass rusher from the QB's blind side? Offenses don't flip their alignments for the Lefty? I've never really paid much attention to that part of the game.

It would make sense that they don't make any real changes because TB had Simms as a backup and you wouldn't do that if you had to retool your offense for the southpaw.

Guess I should have paid more attention to who was lining up where when when Simms was at Texas.

As a general rule, defenses don't flip their DEs to bring the pass rush from the blind side. That's why it's kind of a big deal when some teams occaisionally do it, like Dwight Freeney or Jason Taylor. Michael Strahan always lines up on the right tackle. Simeon Rice always lines up over the guy on the Left.

What the real problem is on QB rollout plays and stuff like that. I think that a lefty QB can basically only roll out to his left side, because he can't square his shoulders correctly when rolling to the right. It's very rare that you see teams running rollouts or bootlegs where the QB has to turn his back to the line of scrimmage.

Otherwise there really isn't a difference that you have to make in terms of personnel.

 

[kerouac9]

As for Cutler? Not that anybody needs to actually justify anything to you, because your opinion means nothing more than anyone else's, but the kid has all the mechanics, and has been scouted as a top-10 QB. He's also the kind of strong pocket passer I like. That's why I like him.

And you've seen his mechanics where? Just wondering. Everything I've seen has said quite the opposite about Cutler. Like if you have him drop back 10 times, you're going to see him set up 10 different ways. And while he has the Favre gunslinger mentality, he lacks the arms to actually sling a gun like Favre.

Considering the guy was a late 1st round pick after the season ended and valuted up the boards before the Senior Bowl, he sounds really, really risky as a Top 10 pick. He kind of seems to me like a Trent Dilfer kind of prospect, and I'd rather let someone else waste their draft pick. He's not even comperable to E. Manning/B. Roethlisberger/C. Carr/B. Leftwich as a prospect. Reminds me a lot more of Kyle Boller and Phillip Rivers. No thanks.

 

[Stout]

And you've seen his mechanics where? Just wondering. Everything I've seen has said quite the opposite about Cutler. Like if you have him drop back 10 times, you're going to see him set up 10 different ways. And while he has the Favre gunslinger mentality, he lacks the arms to actually sling a gun like Favre.

Considering the guy was a late 1st round pick after the season ended and valuted up the boards before the Senior Bowl, he sounds really, really risky as a Top 10 pick. He kind of seems to me like a Trent Dilfer kind of prospect, and I'd rather let someone else waste their draft pick. He's not even comperable to E. Manning/B. Roethlisberger/C. Carr/B. Leftwich as a prospect. Reminds me a lot more of Kyle Boller and Phillip Rivers. No thanks.

Fair enough. I haven't seen him at all, but then again, I have no cable and work 15 hours a day. I get my football from here and here alone right now. His pro day was supposedly very impressive.

 

[kerouac9]

Fair enough. I haven't seen him at all, but then again, I have no cable and work 15 hours a day. I get my football from here and here alone right now. His pro day was supposedly very impressive.

All right, so you're pulling for a guy that you've never seen play, and have only heard the hype on since January. That's fine, but I think that you should make that clear on every post where you pimp Jay Cutler. At least Skkorp saw Phillip Rivers play in a bowl game.

Here's a review of Cutler's Pro Day. It's all well and good, but Cutler starts seeming shaky when there's a pass rush in front of him, not when he's throwing in shorts. These workouts are designed to feature what he can do. What I like about Leinart and Young is that they're at their best under fire, not in March. Josh McCown looked really good when nothing was at stake, too.

 

[duckfallas]

And you've seen his mechanics where? Just wondering. Everything I've seen has said quite the opposite about Cutler. Like if you have him drop back 10 times, you're going to see him set up 10 different ways. And while he has the Favre gunslinger mentality, he lacks the arms to actually sling a gun like Favre.

Have you seen this guy throw? I was skeptical of Cutler too until I watched him throw balls at the combine. He has a legit NFL arm. He was a lot bigger than what I had read about him too. I'd have no problem if the Cards ended up with Cutler in this draft. IMO, he is more of a legit top 10 pick than Young is because I think he is more ready to play at the NFL level.

 

[kerouac9]

Have you seen him throw in game conditions? I'll admit that I haven't, and I think a lot of guys look good in shorts that end up being poor when the games count. Again, Josh McCown, Kyle Boller, etc. spring to mind. What about his release? What about his dropback?

Be suspicious of players that suddenly spring to the top of the board once they stop playing games. Maybe he's great, but TSN compares him to Jake Plummer, a guy that needed a decade in the NFL and an offense designed specifically for him to live up to his second round drafting.

 

[Duckjake]

Well from these photos I'd say it sure looks like Jay Cutler has a strong arm.


http://www.getbig.com/pics/ironman/2003/finals/cutler.htm

 

[Duckjake]

Serious this time.

Link to Vanderbilt vs Arkansas highlight. Especially for JohnH.

Link to main site with video clips of several prospects.

http://vucommodores.com/sports/football/release.asp?release_id=1958

http://mb4.scout.com/fchargersupdatefrm1.showMessage?topicID=7278.topic

 

[JeffGollin]

Link to main site with video clips of several prospects.
While we're on this topic, there was an ad in the Sporting News Draft issue offering a DVD of something like 75 top players for $19.95.

Since our third draft pick is #71, the odds are pretty good our top 3 picks will be among those featured.

So I bit the bullet and forked over the bread. After a decade or more of winding/rewinding to find the right place in a 6 hr. VCR tape, clicking to the right prospect on a DVD figures to be pretty cool.

Combine that with about 40 hours worth of Senior Bowl and Draft material on my DirecTV (TIVO-like) hard drive and I figure "I'm ready."