The curtain's been pulled back

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Funny, where is the article that states the person who said the Dolphins were using a fake count was the referees ? Seems to be in the same place as the presser where Arians clearly states that all the talk about the weather and what not were excuses and that they didn't get the job done in Miami.

RM I would respond to your post but it doesn't make sense.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'm with you on everything you've said, Ouchie. I'm not ready to fire him yet either, but his leash is going to be so much shorter moving forward than I ever would have expected. You're always going to have folks toe the company line, out of a sense of comfort with the known and fear of the unknown--thus you'll get a lot of 'the system works' type of posts defending BA.

It has nothing to do with comfort. It has everything to do with realizing the guy that was the coach 3 years ago, is the same guy, doing the same things today. The only difference is wins and losses.

I 100% understand that fans and people are not happy, and 100% support anyone that is now looking at the situation and changing their minds about the current situation.

But, I will say, just pick a lane this time. Cause there is a lot of convenient truths being thrown around right now.

People hate BA talks like he does ? OK, that is cool. If they start winning again, you better keep that opinion.

People hate BA calls out players ? OK, that is cool. If they start winning again, you better keep that opinion, and keep it when other coaches like Bill Belichek call out players, like he has in the past.

Me, I'm with you. I see, read, and hear what's actually happening and react to it. No excuses for BA. He needs to shut his face if he's just going to dig himself into a deeper hole and get on with his fricking job. If BA wants to be BA and spout off, then he's got to hold EVERYONE accountable. You simply cannot throw players under the bus constantly while excusing your coaches.

Fair enough, but

1. He is not going to shut his face.
2. He is going to hold his players accountable and excuse his coaches, whether you or me like it or not.

But, that is BA, and you can judge him on that. Just be consistent.

Yeah, system's not working right now, BA. Stop flapping your gums.

He is not going to stop flapping his gums, he has done it since day 1 in getting this job. If he were to stop now, I would lose all respect for him. I love that he is sticking to his guns this season.

You want a quiet coach, you will have to fire Bruce Arians. Which is more than a fair opinion to have on the situation. I would not fire him.

As for his system not working ? If you want to blame the coaching staff for the current situation on offense that is your right to do so. I do not personally see it that way, but I understand that it is easiest to blame the head coach and quarterback for just about anything on any NFL team. Not to mention, Arians should shoulder much of the blame as a coach, because he is the head coach, it all falls on them.

Again, I it is a fine argument to call out BA this season. But, for the changes, and the wants that I am reading on this thread, the ONLY way you will get the changes, the coach, and the system some want, is to fire Bruce Arians. Again, which is a fine opinion to have, but I wish people would just come out and say it.

Questioning every move he has made over his tenure over his first losing season is ridiculous, if people are doing that, then just say you do not like Arians as a coach, and you want him fired.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

+1. I think a few posters and fans should just state that and get it over with, but don't worry they will be back to the "Arians is the best ever" rhetoric if the team starts winning again next year. They will BASK in it, LOL

You're either not hearing me or not understanding what I'm saying. Not in a single post have I called for BA's head. I don't want to fire him. The weight of evidence points to him being a very coach. That said I am not afraid to talk about his warts which have become more pronounced this year. RM you seem to think he's perfect if you bristle so at any little criticism.

So just go ahead and say it, RM you have a man crush for BA.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think Bruce is a very good coach. What I'm questioning is whether he's a good LEADER. It's difficult to discern that when all is well because everyone is happy to follow in success in good times. Leadership shows it's true mettle in times of crisis. And in my opinion BA is exhibiting poor character traits for a leader. Anyone see his team rallying around him? Standing up to support his praise of Amos? I may have missed it, but I haven't.

When Arians was in the hospital Fitzgerald talked about rallying around Arians, and how the team felt bad about the way the season was. It seems a weekly occurrence that Mathieu talk about the support Arians has a coach of the team.

I have never, heard any time a player stood up to support their special teams coaching in the time I have watched football. Not saying it hasn't happened.

If you are talking about play on the field, well, the team may be trying to rally around Arians, but since week 1 of the season, the talent on the field has proven not to be very good. Maybe they are trying to win, but just cannot.

But, to be fair, you could be right. After watching the special teams unit of snapper, holder, punter and kicker, they are playing like they are trying to get people fired. And more so, it looks like it takes a conscious effort to damage your team that much in one game. So, maybe you are on to something.

 

[AZ Native]

+1. I think a few posters and fans should just state that and get it over with, but don't worry they will be back to the "Arians is the best ever" rhetoric if the team starts winning again next year. They will BASK in it, LOL

No coach is above criticism. His public flogging of his players in wrong. I know he has had medical issues this year, maybe that has something to do with it. I don't think his coaching has been as good this year. No one is calling for him to be fired but it is easy to see he has not done as good of job this year. We can love our coach and still not like everything he does.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You're either not hearing me or not understanding what I'm saying. Not in a single post have I called for BA's head. I don't want to fire him. The weight of evidence points to him being a very coach. That said I am not afraid to talk about his warts which have become more pronounced this year. RM you seem to think he's perfect if you bristle so at any little criticism.

So just go ahead and say it, RM you have a man crush for BA.

I was about to apologize, and state that you have not said, directly you want the guy fired. I should have made that clear. I didn't intend to stick that on you, but I also wasn't being careful with what I typed.

Yet, the list of complaints that you and other posters have is asking Bruce Arians to do things he will not do, thus firing him would be the only way for those changes to come about.

If he doesn't get fired, then he is going to continue to do what he does, just as he has consistently done since he got here. He is who is is at this point.

You are allow to have your opinions, yet, you are calling me out for having mine. I barely go on this board anymore, and took part in this single thread to voice my support for a coach that I think is doing a fine job, and that some of the accusations here are not 100% the full truth. So, to say I am bristled, which I am not, just talking about the Cardinals, and to say it is about every little thing, is ridiculous and untrue.

As for the rest ? Take some of your own advice Ouchie.

Instead of attacking me personally, point out a single word where you differ in opinion stated and why. That's a conversation.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

No coach is above criticism. His public flogging of his players in wrong. I know he has had medical issues this year, maybe that has something to do with it. I don't think his coaching has been as good this year. No one is calling for him to be fired but it is easy to see he has not done as good of job this year. We can love our coach and still not like everything he does.

Fair enough. But why then is the same guy who was a loudmouth day 1 and a problem when he is a loud mouth 3 years later ? I feel it is fair to claim this may be more because of a win loss record than actual criticism.

Cause if not, then where was these complaints before when he called out Calias Campbell in Arians' first year on the job ?

 

[SO91]

I think Bruce is a very good coach. What I'm questioning is whether he's a good LEADER. It's difficult to discern that when all is well because everyone is happy to follow in success in good times. Leadership shows it's true mettle in times of crisis. And in my opinion BA is exhibiting poor character traits for a leader. Anyone see his team rallying around him? Standing up to support his praise of Amos? I may have missed it, but I haven't.

It's been a tough season for fans, team and coach. Criticism is to be expected after a season like this one. I get it. But I don't agree with questioning leadership NOW, when the same guy was praised as a terrific leader a couple of years ago in the "next man up" season. Maybe the health issues affected him more than he's let on (like he did with Carson's finger last year), but that season was enough for me to determine he's a terrific coach and leader.

 

[AZ Native]

We want a Superbowl championship, is something that I have heard every NFL coach say in its tenure, even Belichek.

Belichick is the one who made fun of Arian's comment after they beat us this year. Sure every coach want to win the Super Bowl but they keep it low key and say things like "one game at a time". His boasting has backfired. We would be better off keeping all that talk in-house and concentrate on winning the games to make that point.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I noticed that too at times. But I wouldnt cry about it as a fan much less as a coach paid GREAT money to overcome such obstacles.

I dunno. I heard all the radio clips, read all the articles and watched the game.

The special team coach from Miami even commented on the rain picking up anytime the Cardinals had the ball.

Its not an excuse, but it did happen.

EDIT - See Post #67 for the videos, and articles.

All found on an easy google search or at the team website.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

It's been a tough season for fans, team and coach. Criticism is to be expected after a season like this one. I get it. But I don't agree with questioning leadership NOW, when the same guy was praised as a terrific leader a couple of years ago in the "next man up" season. Maybe the health issues affected him more than he's let on (like he did with Carson's finger last year), but that season was enough for me to determine he's a terrific coach and leader.

+1

But, watch out, that opinion is not well accepted at this moment, LOL.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Belichick is the one who made fun of Arian's comment after they beat us this year. Sure every coach want to win the Super Bowl but they keep it low key and say things like "one game at a time". His boasting has backfired. We would be better off keeping all that talk in-house and concentrate on winning the games to make that point.

OK.

So, no coach goes into a season saying the Superbowl is the goal ?

 

[AZ Native]

Fair enough. But then the guy some in day 1 and is a loud mouth, and is the same 3 years later, and now its a problem, I feel it is fair to claim this may be more because of a win loss record than actual criticism.

Cause if not, then where was these complaints before when he called out Calias Campbell in Arians' first year on the job ?

You are right, he has called out players before, but it was a more gentle criticism, now it seems to be getting harsher. After a good friend of mine had a stroke he seemed lose his filter completely. He would say anything with thinking. Not saying BA had a stroke, but something is different. He's still our coach and we love him and that is why we are concerned.

 

[Bert]

The weather thing is being so overblown. He was joking around he wasn't actually whining about the weather...

Hard to argue with the rest of the OP tho.

 

[AZ Native]

OK.

So, no coach goes into a season saying the Superbowl is the goal ?

Again, they don't boast about it. If someone asks them they may say something like "that is every team's goal, to win the Super Bowl". But they don't continuously boast about it.

 

[NJCardFan]

I'm going to ask this again: Name a coach who publicly throws their assistant coaches under the bus?

Rex Ryan. Firing his OC 2 weeks into the season qualifies as throwing under the bus.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

RM I would respond to your post but it doesn't make sense.

Concerning what Bruce Arians was told about the snap count in Miami and the refs (found with simple Google Search):

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a725...c88d4f9/dolphins-offended-arians-sticks-story

"Told of Rizzi's comments after practice on Wednesday, Arians said, "he can be offended all he wants. The referee heard it and told them to stop doing it."

Still just an excuse, the Cardinals didn't get the job done. I 100% agree there, but the refs are the ones that told Arians that. A good coach would do something about the situation because you know, they did lose the game on special teams. Last time Arians didn't challenge what the refs called he was grilled for that too. But, such is life in the NFL. So, BA has to deal with it on both sides, part of the job.


Concerning the claim Arians is making excuses and is not accountable for the loss ?

1:03 - "We didn't make the plays to win the game"

http://www.azcardinals.com/videos/v...s-To-Win/580a5c3d-924d-4488-b493-b60907015407


1:20 " The weather had something to do with it, but that's just an excuse."

http://www.azcardinals.com/videos/v...-Swallow/6a103cbb-6b89-44d4-8e53-87473aa6c473


** By the way at 4 minutes in the video above, is his infamous "There will be no coaching changes".

And, by the way, I am not happy that the special team coach is keeping his job, but I also understand that it is not going to happen no matter how much I would like it to. Our special teams is awful from top to bottom and has been the weak point of this team for Arians tenure.


That is what I was talking about.

But, whatever, I came hear to debate the topic, and now I see that is not going to happen.

My opinion is that Arians is still a good coaching, and yes, I am defending some of the things that I do not agree with and that are simply not true, but it is evident that no one wants to hear any of it, and I am not going to be berated for simply stating my opinion.

Be well, and talk (well, type) you guys later.

"Have fun storming the castle."

 

[Cards_Campos]

Me & my buddy noticed it during the game. When we had the ball it poured & as soon as they had possession it would stop. It was uncanny.

Maybe God is tired of his crap too

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Again, they don't boast about it. If someone asks them they may say something like "that is every team's goal, to win the Super Bowl". But they don't continuously boast about it.

I guess I missed it when Arians was walking around town doing that. He said it during a behind the scenes Amazon TV special, but I do not remember him saying anything but that it was the goal when asked like you say.

I fail to see how I am beating a dead horse talking about one topic on one thread, but I understand that a differing opinion is just an annoyance on this thread.

Have a good one.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You are right, he has called out players before, but it was a more gentle criticism, now it seems to be getting harsher. After a good friend of mine had a stroke he seemed lose his filter completely. He would say anything with thinking. Not saying BA had a stroke, but something is different. He's still our coach and we love him and that is why we are concerned.

Good point.

I would not know difference between hardness, but I would be a HORRIBLE person to ask about something like that. So, yeah, I can see that.

 

[Cards_Campos]

Here is the problem in a nutshell. Arians does have a some good traits. I love that he wants to go deep and put pressure on the defense. Problem is when you make mistakes doing that it costs you the game... saying that ....I really think John Brown being hurt has really effected Arians style. John Brown was a speedy shifty guy who always seem to get behind defenses and stretch the field which then opened up Floyd and Fitz. Without that ability Arians offense is very easy to snuff out.
Hence our season was doomed the minute we played Belichick. He had a backup qB ..no Gronk or Edelman or Amedola? He shut down our deep passing game and he attempted to jump our line to block a fg. He masterminded a way to shut down Arians and our offense and he picked apart our defense. We lose a close game and then Belichick basically says....yea we did ok...we beat a good team...I guess....they are a superbowl contenders or at least that's what they are saying around here.
He dismantled our entire team in that game from skill to perception. He also showed the blueprint on how to slow us down.
The problem is Arians is trying to put square pegs into round holes and then sits like some crazy guy knowing they will fit. His lack of understanding on how to protect Palmer in passing situations. His loyalty to a special teams coach that had followed him for 25 years....and his cockiness that He does the game plan and the players screw it up is ridiculous. Yes when 3 years you make fgs and score TDs or get ints in the final minutes your record is going to be solid.
Doesnt everyone remember he believed Ryan Lindley was going to be fine as our QB and we don't need a vet. We had the worst offensive playoff game in 60 years. Does that remind you of Whisenhunt saying Max Hall had moxie!!
Our special teams are atrocious and how Butler impresses Arians and Jones every week shows that there is incompetence!!! I don't care how many coaches of the year you win and how many wins you have had. But if you watch Butler and our special teams....watch how he put Lindley as our starter in a playoff game.....didn't get a 2nd corner when all year teams have torched whomever is out there. Watch as teams hit Palmer over and over...and you still don't adjust....throwing the ball in a monsoon!!! So let's see...Arians said I thought we were going to win all game until we got the ball back and it was pouring like crazy. So thinking that...he says let's throw the ball 3 times when we have David Johnson....hell why not run the wildcat once in that situation...plus...if we run...atleast Miami uses their timeouts.!!!! How many times this year have you screamed at the TV because we have 3rd and 1 and we are throwing the ball cross field to a covered Floyd who drops 45% of open passes. Say what you want...but he won't change...we won't win because teams have figured us out and our special teams is not going to improve under Jones.

My dream choices woukd be Josh mcDaniels who adjusts every week. And To get Todd Bowles back when he is let go from the Jets.
Arians isn't going to get fired this year no matter what I or anyone else says. And I don't want him too. I like his attitude. But if this is the same or worse next year. He retires....but the sad thing is...so does Fitz...Palmer...and then what?!

 

[DeAnna]

I guess I missed it when Arians was walking around town doing that. He said it during a behind the scenes Amazon TV special, but I do not remember him saying anything but that it was the goal when asked like you say

In all fairness, the did not say it this year (just on Amazon). It was mostly the national media that anointed them SuperBowl winners.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It has nothing to do with comfort. It has everything to do with realizing the guy that was the coach 3 years ago, is the same guy, doing the same things today. The only difference is wins and losses.

I 100% understand that fans and people are not happy, and 100% support anyone that is now looking at the situation and changing their minds about the current situation.

But, I will say, just pick a lane this time. Cause there is a lot of convenient truths being thrown around right now.

People hate BA talks like he does ? OK, that is cool. If they start winning again, you better keep that opinion.

People hate BA calls out players ? OK, that is cool. If they start winning again, you better keep that opinion, and keep it when other coaches like Bill Belichek call out players, like he has in the past.




Fair enough, but

1. He is not going to shut his face.
2. He is going to hold his players accountable and excuse his coaches, whether you or me like it or not.

But, that is BA, and you can judge him on that. Just be consistent.



He is not going to stop flapping his gums, he has done it since day 1 in getting this job. If he were to stop now, I would lose all respect for him. I love that he is sticking to his guns this season.

You want a quiet coach, you will have to fire Bruce Arians. Which is more than a fair opinion to have on the situation. I would not fire him.

As for his system not working ? If you want to blame the coaching staff for the current situation on offense that is your right to do so. I do not personally see it that way, but I understand that it is easiest to blame the head coach and quarterback for just about anything on any NFL team. Not to mention, Arians should shoulder much of the blame as a coach, because he is the head coach, it all falls on them.

Again, I it is a fine argument to call out BA this season. But, for the changes, and the wants that I am reading on this thread, the ONLY way you will get the changes, the coach, and the system some want, is to fire Bruce Arians. Again, which is a fine opinion to have, but I wish people would just come out and say it.

Questioning every move he has made over his tenure over his first losing season is ridiculous, if people are doing that, then just say you do not like Arians as a coach, and you want him fired.

We've been CORRECTLY questioning his ST for YEARS now. Don't make it sound like this is new. That's a lame argument RM. I expect better from you.

 

[Stout]

No coach is above criticism. His public flogging of his players in wrong. I know he has had medical issues this year, maybe that has something to do with it. I don't think his coaching has been as good this year. No one is calling for him to be fired but it is easy to see he has not done as good of job this year. We can love our coach and still not like everything he does.

Well said.

 

[cardncubfan]

Maybe God is tired of his crap too

First there would need to be one.