The Dark Knight

[Covert Rain]

Reports I've seen/heard say he had trouble sleeping and was anxious because of the role. I don't have an opinion on it, I'm just telling you what was reported.

Edit: I found the quote: "the actor said playing the role of a 'murderous psychopath' had left him 'sleepless and exhausted.'"

I had read that too but later read something else that said that quote was unsubstantiated. I am just basing my opinion on what his fellow actors had said about his mood and how he appeared throughout filming. He was obviously having some issues with sleeping and anxiety. However, based on what his fellow actors stated it wasn't because of the role of the Joker. It was probably acting in general. The long shoots etc. He was already part way through another film at the time of his death and was still having issues.

I don't understand the question. Why would I take Jack Nicholson's advice about my health?

No that's my point as well. Some people are suggesting that it's Heath's fault for not listening to jack about Ambien. My point is why would he.

 

[hsandhu]

Yup. I guess when Nicholson got word of his death he said "I warned him." (heard that on NPR)

In fact, here's a great look at the Joker as a character from NPR's "In Character" (I forget if the Nicholson thing is in this one or something different...):

NPR Story

I agree w/ SteelDog this is all b.s. There is even an interview w/ ledger on youtube saying this was the most fun he ever had. And I think jack was talking about the sleeping pills ledger took.
Jack later talked about waking up in the driveway after having taken the same pills.


Yeah, ledger would have been right up there with daniel day lewises, dicaprios,etc.. after this.

 

[SuperSpck]

Yeah, ledger would have been right up there with daniel day lewises, dicaprios,etc.. after this.

Still can be. Can't he?

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Still can be. Can't he?

No, but I guess he can be up there with the River Phoenix's, James Deans, John Belushi's, etc.


As for the Heath-cause-of-death thing, I was just passing on what I was told. I really don't pay much attention to any news that's celebrity related, so thank you Steel Dog for setting me straight.

 

[Gaddabout]

I don't believe it. I saw an interview with Gary Oldman and another with Christian Bale where they said he was always in a great mood between takes, joking around with the cast and when hanging out after filming was always in good spirits.

That kind of behavior is not at all uncommon to people with certain traumas and emotional disorders. At the risk of delving too deep into pop psychology, wall flowers and social butterflies often share emotional characteristics, but they express them in different ways in social situations.

Method acting for certain people has a frightening way of unwinding the mind and causing fragmentation. Someone like Paul Newman or Dustin Hoffman, their minds aren't affected. Perhaps they knew where to draw boundaries. Then you see someone like Marlon Brando and you realize method acting can cause mental and emotional damage every bit as traumatic as prison torture. I can only guess like everyone else, but I suspect Heath Ledger lost track of boundaries and lost himself quite a bit. Our perceptions of our self can only be sustained if we reinforce that perception everyday. The longer you go without it, the more it's easy to end up in a personality crisis.

 

[UncleChris]

Just got back. Liked it a lot! I dont consider a top 10 movie at all. But it was VERY enjoyable and I could totally see an Oscar for Ledger whos joker was in every way the best Batman villain out of every movie they have made so far. It isnt even close.

Good hell, Shane.... Pretty soon all I'll be able to post here is, "yeah... what Shane said."

First, my complaints... (I give a little here, but really no spoilers) Too long, unneeded plot items, sound (voice) weak in a few places and blowing stuff up apparently for the sole purpose of blowing stuff up (but we had explosives left!!!). Also, I get irritated by little stuff, like when Joker is holding a cop hostage from behind, his big, white, pumpkin head is sticking way out, just waiting for a cop to pop him: Hell... I could have hit him. And of course, just how does all that explosive stuff miraculously get into the various places?

Now you might say, "C'mon UC!!!! It's a comic book movie! Whaddaya expect?" To which I must point out that this movie was so well done, so intense, that it pulls you totally in, making you think in terms of "reality movie" instead of "comic book movie."

I thought this movie was extremely well filmed and there may be an O.N. for that, as well as music, which really helps pull you in to the story. Heath's Joker should not and cannot be compared to Nicholson's.... Totally apples and oranges. Suffice it to say that if Heath doesn't get an Oscar, they should simply shut down the academy. He was incredible. A+++

The rest of the cast was good, but not great. I thought Gary Oldman was "the best of the rest." He's very convincing and believable. He's one of filmdom's most unappreciated actors, methinks

Effects were most excellent. Batman's toys were all really cool (some more believable than others). The action scenes were very well done, except one, in which everything was done so quickly it became difficult (for an old guy, anyway) to follow.

Two scores from me: An absolute 5 out of 5 stars for Heath. The movie as a whole gets 4 out of 5. A really, really good movie.... but in a year of really, really good movies. Not a top 10 movie, and probably not even a top 100 movie... but definitely one of the best this year. A real roller coaster ride!!!

 

[Shane]

Good hell, Shane.... Pretty soon all I'll be able to post here is, "yeah... what Shane said."

First, my complaints... (I give a little here, but really no spoilers) Too long, unneeded plot items, sound (voice) weak in a few places and blowing stuff up apparently for the sole purpose of blowing stuff up (but we had explosives left!!!). Also, I get irritated by little stuff, like when Joker is holding a cop hostage from behind, his big, white, pumpkin head is sticking way out, just waiting for a cop to pop him: Hell... I could have hit him. And of course, just how does all that explosive stuff miraculously get into the various places?

Now you might say, "C'mon UC!!!! It's a comic book movie! Whaddaya expect?" To which I must point out that this movie was so well done, so intense, that it pulls you totally in, making you think in terms of "reality movie" instead of "comic book movie."

I thought this movie was extremely well filmed and there may be an O.N. for that, as well as music, which really helps pull you in to the story. Heath's Joker should not and cannot be compared to Nicholson's.... Totally apples and oranges. Suffice it to say that if Heath doesn't get an Oscar, they should simply shut down the academy. He was incredible. A+++

The rest of the cast was good, but not great. I thought Gary Oldman was "the best of the rest." He's very convincing and believable. He's one of filmdom's most unappreciated actors, methinks

Effects were most excellent. Batman's toys were all really cool (some more believable than others). The action scenes were very well done, except one, in which everything was done so quickly it became difficult (for an old guy, anyway) to follow.

Two scores from me: An absolute 5 out of 5 stars for Heath. The movie as a whole gets 4 out of 5. A really, really good movie.... but in a year of really, really good movies. Not a top 10 movie, and probably not even a top 100 movie... but definitely one of the best this year. A real roller coaster ride!!!

Completely agree. Go figure.

My other compliant is the extreme level Bale takes in making his voice sound raspy while playing batman. Its so damn raspy its almost hard to understand what the hell he is saying at times. Way overboard with it.

 

[AZZenny]

Method acting for certain people has a frightening way of unwinding the mind and causing fragmentation. Someone like Paul Newman or Dustin Hoffman, their minds aren't affected. Perhaps they knew where to draw boundaries. Then you see someone like Marlon Brando and you realize method acting can cause mental and emotional damage every bit as traumatic as prison torture. I can only guess like everyone else, but I suspect Heath Ledger lost track of boundaries and lost himself quite a bit. Our perceptions of our self can only be sustained if we reinforce that perception everyday. The longer you go without it, the more it's easy to end up in a personality crisis.

Horsepoop.

Marlon Brando, James Dean, Robert Downey Jr. were seriously damaged men before they got into acting; they were druggies, alcoholics, and high risk-takers to begin with. Like most stars, they went through an enormous amount of rejection and then sudden adulation. It was very likely the many pressures of fame and fortune that tore them apart.
Marilyn Monroe -- Acting, or the parts she played, had nothing to do with her gradual dissolution. Booze and drugs and a damaged personality did. Or Bob Dylan. Kurt Cobain. Belushi.

...and Paul Newman is the farthest thing from a method actor.

Heath Ledger wasn't a true method actor, anyhow, because according to the cast, director, producer, etc. he was his normal funny self as soon as he was out of makeup. I heard interviews today about this very subject with the Director and Producer and they said he was excited about the role, and excited about the quality of work he was doing.

Acting is WORK, as well as art. It is really hard physical and mental work to play different types of roles well, as much or more than it is an emotional strain. Then there's the simple reality of shooting a big picture on deadline -- Schedules for the leads can often run from 4 AM makeup call to midnight, sometimes stuck off on location with a hundred other prima donas for months.

Martin Sheen had a heart attack making Apocalypse Now -- not Marlon Brando -- and it was purely from physical stress and exhaustion. Peter O'Toole had a very hard time recovering from Lawrence of Arabia -- because the shooting and location schedules and the sheer demands of carrying the movie nearly killed him -- not because he had to act like he was raped and tortured by Bedouins.

To blame this role for having anything to do with his death is nonsense. He'd already moved on to other roles -- why don't you blame those parts? He didn't turn homosexual or fall apart after Brokeback Mountain, which he said was an incredibly tough and challenging role for him emotionally and artistically.

He was in very heavy demand, doing one tough role after another with not much of a break, so no surprise he was stressed out, tired, and popping pills like a careless damn fool. Nevertheless, people who'd seen him in the week or two before his death said he was hugely enjoying being Daddy to his little girl.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Christian Bale arrested for alleged assault on family members (his own mom and sister).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/jul/22/christian.bale

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'll say it. Heath's projection of the Joker was better than Jacks. It was the best villian of all time. Better than Darth Vader even.

I'm still awed by this film days later, and I'm off to preorder the Bluray release now.

 

[Stout]

I'll say it. Heath's projection of the Joker was better than Jacks. It was the best villian of all time. Better than Darth Vader even.

I'm still awed by this film days later, and I'm off to preorder the Bluray release now.

Well, as they were completely different characters, I'll say you're wrong

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Well, as they were completely different characters, I'll say you're wrong

How about the same character portrayed in different ways? It's hard to compare them, but I don't need to. That was the best villain performance of all time. You can compare it against any other if you like. Heath's performance still stands up.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Ehhh.... Some great villans out there. I will just stand with.... His was up there with the greatest.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

How about the same character portrayed in different ways? It's hard to compare them, but I don't need to. That was the best villain performance of all time. You can compare it against any other if you like. Heath's performance still stands up.

Not to be contrarian, but I'm with Stout on this one.

I'm not taking anything away from Heath Ledger's performance, but give it a year then draw a conclusion.

 

[Pariah]

I don't know how anyone can say you can't compare Nicholson's and Ledger's performance. It's the same character interpreted differently. They took the same lump of clay--the Clown Prince of Crime--and did what they did with it. Yes, they did vastly different things, but it's the same character. If you can't compare those performances, what can you compare?

...And, Ledger was better than Nicholson. Far better, IMO.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Not to be contrarian, but I'm with Stout on this one.

I'm not taking anything away from Heath Ledger's performance, but give it a year then draw a conclusion.

We have vBookie thread number 534 in a year from now.

 

[Gaddabout]

Horsepoop.

Marlon Brando, James Dean, Robert Downey Jr. were seriously damaged men before they got into acting; they were druggies, alcoholics, and high risk-takers to begin with. Like most stars, they went through an enormous amount of rejection and then sudden adulation. It was very likely the many pressures of fame and fortune that tore them apart.
Marilyn Monroe -- Acting, or the parts she played, had nothing to do with her gradual dissolution. Booze and drugs and a damaged personality did. Or Bob Dylan. Kurt Cobain. Belushi.

...and Paul Newman is the farthest thing from a method actor.

Heath Ledger wasn't a true method actor, anyhow, because according to the cast, director, producer, etc. he was his normal funny self as soon as he was out of makeup. I heard interviews today about this very subject with the Director and Producer and they said he was excited about the role, and excited about the quality of work he was doing.

Acting is WORK, as well as art. It is really hard physical and mental work to play different types of roles well, as much or more than it is an emotional strain. Then there's the simple reality of shooting a big picture on deadline -- Schedules for the leads can often run from 4 AM makeup call to midnight, sometimes stuck off on location with a hundred other prima donas for months.

Martin Sheen had a heart attack making Apocalypse Now -- not Marlon Brando -- and it was purely from physical stress and exhaustion. Peter O'Toole had a very hard time recovering from Lawrence of Arabia -- because the shooting and location schedules and the sheer demands of carrying the movie nearly killed him -- not because he had to act like he was raped and tortured by Bedouins.

To blame this role for having anything to do with his death is nonsense. He'd already moved on to other roles -- why don't you blame those parts? He didn't turn homosexual or fall apart after Brokeback Mountain, which he said was an incredibly tough and challenging role for him emotionally and artistically.

He was in very heavy demand, doing one tough role after another with not much of a break, so no surprise he was stressed out, tired, and popping pills like a careless damn fool. Nevertheless, people who'd seen him in the week or two before his death said he was hugely enjoying being Daddy to his little girl.

When Christian Bale ends up in the nut house from the constant weight change (The Machinist, this role) and alienation to get into roles, I'd love to revisit this with you. He's either going to starve his brain or cause his heart to suddenly stop.

The DK production notes say Ledger spent a month in a hotel room by himself before the shoot preparing for the role of Joker. All he did was get into character, keeping a diary as The Joker, reenacting scenes from A Clockwork Orange and using Sid Vicious as a model. He was sleeping only a couple of hours each night.

I'm suggesting the "good ol' Heath" they saw on the set was when Ledger was doing his best acting, not the guy in the crazy face paint while the camera was running.

 

[Gaddabout]

When Christian Bale ends up in the nut house from the constant weight change (The Machinist, this role) and alienation to get into roles, I'd love to revisit this with you. He's either going to starve his brain or cause his heart to suddenly stop.

And it's already starting:

'Batman' allegedly assaults mother, sister

http://www.azcentral.com/ent/celeb/articles/2008/07/22/20080722bale.html

 

[dreamcastrocks]

There aren't any details on this at all yet. I'll reserve judgment.

 

[scXfreakX]

Yeah, I saw it on Saturday. The movie for me was about an 8.5/10. Not really amazing, but still good and entertaining. Heath Ledger was just unbelievable. So freaking good as the Joker. Honestly, one of the best acting performances I've ever seen.

 

[Shane]

I don't know how anyone can say you can't compare Nicholson's and Ledger's performance. It's the same character interpreted differently. They took the same lump of clay--the Clown Prince of Crime--and did what they did with it. Yes, they did vastly different things, but it's the same character. If you can't compare those performances, what can you compare?

...And, Ledger was better than Nicholson. Far better, IMO.

150% agree. You totally can compare the two. Leder was TOTALLY better!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

150% agree. You totally can compare the two. Leder was TOTALLY better!

Absolutely. How is it that you can compare the different Bonds, or even the different Batmans, but somehow you can't compare The Joker?

The idea that you can't is silly to me.

 

[Stout]

I don't know how anyone can say you can't compare Nicholson's and Ledger's performance. It's the same character interpreted differently. They took the same lump of clay--the Clown Prince of Crime--and did what they did with it. Yes, they did vastly different things, but it's the same character. If you can't compare those performances, what can you compare?

...And, Ledger was better than Nicholson. Far better, IMO.

You know, you make a great point. I still won't say one was better than the other because, IMO, they are polar opposites in interpretation. If Heath tried to do it Jack's way, he would have utterly failed. If Jack had done it Heath's way, he probably wouldn't have been as good. Still, your point stands...they can be compared. I just won't personally pick one or the other. Both were beautiful performances.

 

[Mulli]

Haven't seen this one yet, but I still vote for Cesar Romero.

 

[nashman]

I was thinking this movie obviously left us wanting more and left it totally open for the next one. My question is who is going to play the Joker? So I was thinking what actors do you all think could pull it off and make the character similar to that of Ledgers? I was thinking maybe Depp, as he really gets into his characters pretty well and is weird enough to pull it off, what do all of you think? Who in your opinions could pull it off?