The Decline and Fall of Amare

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sure why everyone is ripping Amare. This is what he is. I really believe his "team" has reached an agreement with the Heat and so we're getting the safe Amare. He hasn't given up, he's just not going to give us anything extra and risk injury with his career deal coming up.

In the past, we could always expect to get Amare's best when the playoff spotlight was shining but not this season. And why? I think he's known his future since just before the playoffs started. Consider this, in the past 13 games he is averaging 21 points and 7 rebounds. For the 13 games prior to this stretch he averaged 27 points and 10 rebounds. Even allowing for the difference in competition that's a huge difference.

Does anyone else have a better argument for Amare's decline in play and the out-of-left field statement by Pat Riley that he would return to coaching the Heat if a key free agent asked him to?

Steve

 

[Absolute Zero]

Sorry, but that's crap. The implication that any player with a shot at the title would intentionally play at a lower level because he's looking forward to next year with another team is ridiculous.

 

[AfroSuns]

Wow. It is the playoffs. Saying he is playing like this because he is trying to avoid injury is ridiculous. You may want to consider this, all 3 teams the Suns played have very good big men. The Lakers? at least 3 of em. He sucked last night on the defensive end no doubt but your insinuations are way off.
Kind of disappointing to see this kind of post after a bad loss, but i am not surprised.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sorry, but that's crap. The implication that any player with a shot at the title would intentionally play at a lower level because he's looking forward to next year with another team is ridiculous.

Not what I said. First off, he's not looking forward to next year, he's looking forward to a max length contract that will leave him set for life. That is understandably important to a man with the injury history that Amare has. Secondly, there's a big difference between playing the game and playing the game with focus and intensity.

Amare has not quit but he is not giving the extra level of effort that he gave us in past playoffs. Maybe there's a different reason but I think his lack of focus is apparent to many of us.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow. It is the playoffs. Saying he is playing like this because he is trying to avoid injury is ridiculous. You may want to consider this, all 3 teams the Suns played have very good big men. The Lakers? at least 3 of em.

all playoff teams have good big men. If you can't rebound or play defense then, then what good are you? And the Lakers have two very good big men and one guy hobbling around. 3 rebounds from your PF is PATHETIC. 7 rebounds per game from him all playoffs long is pathetic.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Wow. It is the playoffs. Saying he is playing like this because he is trying to avoid injury is ridiculous. You may want to consider this, all 3 teams the Suns played have very good big men. The Lakers? at least 3 of em. He sucked last night on the defensive end no doubt but your insinuations are way off.
Kind of disappointing to see this kind of post after a bad loss, but i am not surprised.

Actually, I made a similar post more than a week ago. It has nothing to do with the final score. It's an observation based on watching Amare out there on the court. He just doesn't look like the same player from 6 weeks ago. Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's tired but as I mentioned I find the Riley comment and timing of Amare's decline worrisome.

Steve

 

[SunsFanVegas]

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see how he plays tomorrow in Game 2. But if he comes out with the same dismal performance with no intensity on the defensive end, then I'll have to agree with the OP on this one. He talks about 'focus' and 'intensity' but it just didn't show on the court. It almost looked like he had something else on his mind. This is the WCF man....grow a pair and play some "D".

 

[jagu]

I remember when a lot on this board ripped me for knocking Amare. Welcome to my world

 

[Ronin]

If Amare is the next Karl Malone
what the heck is Pau Gasol?
Pau Gasol = Kevin Mchale?

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not sure why everyone is ripping Amare. This is what he is. I really believe his "team" has reached an agreement with the Heat and so we're getting the safe Amare. He hasn't given up, he's just not going to give us anything extra and risk injury with his career deal coming up.

Total crap. The Lakers front line is huge. Amare historically has had trouble with teams with lots of size. This series is no different. The outcomes is exactly the same.

Also, when a player is in a contract year he plays better not worse. I don't recall a single scenario where a player has helped himself in free agency after a crappy performance.

In terms of having a "deal"....there have been a few teams busted in the last few years for tampering with other players on other teams. With the way stuff leaks now out of organizations, if the Heat and Amare had a deal there would be ZERO chance of it not leaking out. Not to mention that there are some that believe Wade might leave the Heat.

Sorry don't buy this as a valid scenario.

Does anyone else have a better argument for Amare's decline in play and the out-of-left field statement by Pat Riley that he would return to coaching the Heat if a key free agent asked him to?

Steve

Just made it above. This would be one thing if the the Suns were playing a lesser team then the Lakers and didn't show up. However, that is not the case. Amare doesn't have the size to impose his will on the inside when you have 2 huge front line guys at all times in the game (Bynum/Gasol or Gasol/Odom).

Also, did you see the look of disgust in Amare's face in post game interviews? That is not the reaction of someone who mailed it in. He was pissed and disappointed. Now we are suppose to believe Amare is a good actor as well???

 

[Cheesebeef]

If Amare is the next Karl Malone

where did this come from? Malone had a post-up game, was a great passer and rebounded no matter what kind of front line he played. Amare does none of those.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Amare is who he is... Nobody could/should question the brand of ball he played in the final 3 months of the season. He was all-world. However, that was the regular season and, truthfully, while Amare was putting up his double-double every night, the Suns were also benefitting from huge contributions from a variety of other players. In short, they were winning not ONLY because of Amare. Amare's play inspired the team as a whole. But make no mistake, if not for the contributions of players like J-Rich, Frye, Duds, Hill and Dragic, Amare's double-doubles would not have meant squat.

Now, in the post season and in particular, the WCF where the game hits an entirely different level of competition and intensity, Amare becomes less of a factor. AND, when the rest of the players fail to contribute at any type of meaningful level, such as what happened last night, Amare has no chance to make a difference as teams like the Lakers are too big, too talented and just too damn good...
Amare needs other guys around him in order to be effective. Which, really isn't too unlike many other stars... I mean, look at LeBron... he's playing golf right now because he has nobody else around him.
Clearly, Amare has limitations... He can't play defense and he can't play with his back to the basket. Watching Gasol last night provided such a clear contrast between a full-fledged, all-around stud, and someone who possesses far better than average offensive skills, but is not at the elite level. Fact is Amare is not worth a Max deal. He is cearly one of the top 10-15 players in the league however, but as a power forward, he's got serious limitations...

 

[Chaplin]

Fickle Suns fans. What a surprise this thread is.

Amare was a top 3 player the 2nd half of the season. This crap about the Miami Heat is just that--crap.

Teams adjust well to Amare and unfortunately right now he hasn't adjusted well to them.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Total crap. The Lakers front line is huge. Amare historically has had trouble with teams with lots of size. This series is no different. The outcomes is exactly the same.

Alright, I'll try this one more time. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT LAST NIGHT!!! It's my opinion that Amare has played with less intensity for awhile now. It's based on watching the guy out there, game in and game out. It started just before the season ended. He hasn't stopped trying but he has stopped giving that little extra we've grown accustomed to this past half season and in previous playoff games.

Also, when a player is in a contract year he plays better not worse. I don't recall a single scenario where a player has helped himself in free agency after a crappy performance.

Hence my speculation that an under-the-table agreement may have already been reached. Does nobody else find Pat Riley's comment to be one of the strangest out-of-nowhere comments in the history of out-of-nowhere comments. It made him look stupid, suggesting that he might once again jump back to the bench and I don't think he would have made it without a very good reason. A reason such as laying the groundwork for something he's already agreed to do. I think he's either getting senile or he's heard from a third party that a key player would like to play for him (specifically, FOR HIM).

In terms of having a "deal"....there have been a few teams busted in the last few years for tampering with other players on other teams. With the way stuff leaks now out of organizations, if the Heat and Amare had a deal there would be ZERO chance of it not leaking out. Not to mention that there are some that believe Wade might leave the Heat.

I considered this. However, just because a team or two has been caught doesn't mean it hasn't occurred a few thousand other times. It's easy enough to set something like this up without serious risk. Minnesota went to the absurd extreme of putting it in writing instead of keeping it verbal not to mention having a few intermediaries involved so as to allow for deniability. And unlike Amare, Wade has sounded pretty sincere when he talks about his desire to return to the Heat.

Also, did you see the look of disgust in Amare's face in post game interviews? That is not the reaction of someone who mailed it in. He was pissed and disappointed. Now we are suppose to believe Amare is a good actor as well???

Mailing it in is probably a little stronger than I would phrase it. Do you truly see nothing in between giving it your all and just plain giving up? I think Amare wants to win, wants to play well but is satisfied enough with what his future holds that he is no longer playing with the intensity he has previously displayed. I thought this long before we played the Lakers.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

Amare is not playing "safe" to avoid injury. Amare is just playing how Amare always plays. I don't understand why people get to surprised and shocked when he gets destroyed by Gasol, Odom, etc. Amare is just not that good on defense, has low basketball IQ and gets frustrated when things don't go his way. That's who Amare's always been and that's who he is always going to be.

 

[Chaplin]

Alright, I'll try this one more time. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT LAST NIGHT!!! It's my opinion that Amare has played with less intensity for awhile now. It's based on watching the guy out there, game in and game out. It started just before the season ended. He hasn't stopped trying but he has stopped giving that little extra we've grown accustomed to this past half season and in previous playoff games.

Please. You're bitching just to bitch. You're upset about the loss and, like a lot of others on this board, you decide to tear everything down. The only good thing is that you haven't said (yet) that you hate this *&%#& team.

Hence my speculation that an under-the-table agreement may have already been reached. Does nobody else find Pat Riley's comment to be one of the strangest out-of-nowhere comments in the history of out-of-nowhere comments. It made him look stupid, suggesting that he might once again jump back to the bench and I don't think he would have made it without a very good reason. A reason such as laying the groundwork for something he's already agreed to do. I think he's either getting senile or he's heard from a third party that a key player would like to play for him (specifically, FOR HIM).

Besides being illegal, you have no proof whatsoever that anything remotely like this has happened. There are a lot of big free agents this summer, so to think he means Amare and not Bosh or Boozer is ridiculous.

Mailing it in is probably a little stronger than I would phrase it. Do you truly see nothing in between giving it your all and just plain giving up? I think Amare wants to win, wants to play well but is satisfied enough with what his future holds that he is no longer playing with the intensity he has previously displayed. I thought this long before we played the Lakers.

Steve

Again, that's crap. The Lakers defend him well. He is their primary focus and they are already a good defensive team. So was San Antonio and Portland. In fact, we have faced the 3 best defensive teams in the playoffs, IMO (with Utah a close 4th). The guy was MVP-dominate since the All-Star break for chrissakes!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Fickle Suns fans. What a surprise this thread is.

Amare was a top 3 player the 2nd half of the season. This crap about the Miami Heat is just that--crap.

Teams adjust well to Amare and unfortunately right now he hasn't adjusted well to them.

Wow. Fickle? I've been called a lot of things but not once have I been called fickle. I'll admit the Miami connection is pure conjecture on my part but I challenge anyone to go back and watch any 3 games from the past 13 games and tell me that Amare looks to have the same focus he had prior to that.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

Please. You're bitching just to bitch. You're upset about the loss and, like a lot of others on this board, you decide to tear everything down. The only good thing is that you haven't said (yet) that you hate this *&%#& team.

Again, that's crap. The Lakers defend him well. He is their primary focus and they are already a good defensive team. So was San Antonio and Portland. In fact, we have faced the 3 best defensive teams in the playoffs, IMO (with Utah a close 4th). The guy was MVP-dominate since the All-Star break for chrissakes!

I think his issue is that, yes, since the All-star break Amare was MVP Dominate but when the real season began, his game took a step back. And if you're really MVP Dominate, it shouldn't matter who's in your way. That's what makes you an MVP.

 

[Ronin]

where did this come from? Malone had a post-up game, was a great passer and rebounded no matter what kind of front line he played. Amare does none of those.

I've seen it thrown around this board a couple of times.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Please. You're bitching just to bitch. You're upset about the loss and, like a lot of others on this board, you decide to tear everything down. The only good thing is that you haven't said (yet) that you hate this *&%#& team.

You clearly define "bitching" differently than I do. I'm not mad at Amare, I'm not giving up on the Suns and I'm definitely not bitching. I still think we can beat this Laker team if the Lakers return to their April form and that's without any change in Amare's effort. This Lakers team is far superior to us when they are in sync and I won't be a bit embarrassed if they sweep us but if we get less than their best we have a real chance against them.

Besides being illegal, you have no proof whatsoever that anything remotely like this has happened. There are a lot of big free agents this summer, so to think he means Amare and not Bosh or Boozer is ridiculous.

Do you know the difference between conjecture and fact? One of the big differences is that when you conjecture you get to do it without people screaming "where's your proof". And you may well be right, Riley might be pursuing any one of several others instead of Amare and I've simply connected the wrong dots.

Again, that's crap. The Lakers defend him well. He is their primary focus and they are already a good defensive team. So was San Antonio and Portland. In fact, we have faced the 3 best defensive teams in the playoffs, IMO (with Utah a close 4th). The guy was MVP-dominate since the All-Star break for chrissakes!

It's not crap. My statement had nothing to do with the Lakers game other than it was one more small piece of the puzzle. Like I said, maybe it's injury, maybe it's exhaustion but I clearly see a difference in the way Amare makes his presence felt out there and it's been going on for quite awhile. This is not the first time he's played against quality big men in the playoffs but it is the first time I've seen an apparent lack of focus from him at this time of the year. Make of that what you will but please, stop the histrionics and deal with my points.

Steve

 

[Go Devils]

Amare is a small fwd.

I suspect if he walks, the FO will pursue Dirk to play with Nash.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Fickle Suns fans. What a surprise this thread is.

Amare was a top 3 player the 2nd half of the season. This crap about the Miami Heat is just that--crap.

Teams adjust well to Amare and unfortunately right now he hasn't adjusted well to them.

he was a top 3 player the 2nd half of the season. he wasn't a top 7 player on the floor last night.

i'd argue kobe, gasol, odom, jrich, artest, dragic, lopez were better given their respective expectations, aggressiveness, effectiveness, and amare's aversion to rebounding, defense, or effort.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Amare is a small fwd.

I suspect if he walks, the FO will pursue Dirk to play with Nash.

yay! let's get older!

 

[Chaplin]

The guy scored over 20 points on a small amount of shots and got to the free throw line a lot. One of the things he needs to do in this series is make his 15-foot jumper and he was doing that consistently too. Rebounding and defense sucked, sure, but to tear down Amare for this loss in incredibly naive by, yes, fickle Suns fans.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The guy scored over 20 points on a small amount of shots and got to the free throw line a lot. One of the things he needs to do in this series is make his 15-foot jumper and he was doing that consistently too. Rebounding and defense sucked, sure, but to tear down Amare for this loss in incredibly naive by, yes, fickle Suns fans.

wow. to give him a pass b/c he scored 23 points is incredibly naive imo. 3 rebounds. let me repeat that . . . 3 rebounds. and the game is played at both ends of the floor, but last night amare played only at one end. and honestly, if he wants to be a max player, i don't care who the opposition is, he's got to assert his will on the game. 23 points, when the rest of the team is struggling to score, isn't going to cut it.