The Decline and Fall of Amare

[82CardsGrad]

The guy scored over 20 points on a small amount of shots and got to the free throw line a lot. One of the things he needs to do in this series is make his 15-foot jumper and he was doing that consistently too. Rebounding and defense sucked, sure, but to tear down Amare for this loss in incredibly naive by, yes, fickle Suns fans.

Dragic scored 23 points in one quarter... guess he's eligible for a Max deal now...

 

[AzStevenCal]

The guy scored over 20 points on a small amount of shots and got to the free throw line a lot. One of the things he needs to do in this series is make his 15-foot jumper and he was doing that consistently too. Rebounding and defense sucked, sure, but to tear down Amare for this loss in incredibly naive by, yes, fickle Suns fans.

Is there another language than English that you would prefer? I AM NOT TEARING AMARE DOWN and it has virtually NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAKERS GAME. He hasn't looked the same for more than a month now. Deal with that statement and quit dragging me back to the Lakers game, please.

Do you believe that Amare has played just as well the past month as he did the previous 2 months? If so, make your case. Personally, I've seen just the opposite and the stats back me up. He is averaging 6 fewer points and 3 fewer rebounds over the past month when compared to the previous month or so.

If you want to lay that all at the foot of "tougher competition" fine. However, this is not his first year in the playoffs nor is it his first year facing quality big men but it is the first year he's been relegated to a 2nd tier performer.

I may be way in outer space with my suggestion as to why his performance level is less than stellar but I don't see how anyone can just pretend there is no difference between Amare today and Amare a month ago.

And if you pick up on some subtle cues that I might be getting frustrated here it's because at no time have I suggested Amare is responsible for our loss last night but you and others keep throwing that out there.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Dragic scored 23 points in one quarter... guess he's eligible for a Max deal now...

LOL You're not serious, are you? What has that got to do with anything? I never once mentioned whether he's a max player or not.

Amare's taking the brunt of the criticism here when in REALITY we lost because JRich and Channing were nowhere to be found. Amare could have had the exact same game but we would have been in better position to win had those other 2 guys done more than they did.

 

[Chaplin]

Is there another language than English that you would prefer? I AM NOT TEARING AMARE DOWN and it has virtually NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAKERS GAME. He hasn't looked the same for more than a month now. Deal with that statement and quit dragging me back to the Lakers game, please.

Do you believe that Amare has played just as well the past month as he did the previous 2 months? If so, make your case. Personally, I've seen just the opposite and the stats back me up. He is averaging 6 fewer points and 3 fewer rebounds over the past month when compared to the previous month or so.

If you want to lay that all at the foot of "tougher competition" fine. However, this is not his first year in the playoffs nor is it his first year facing quality big men but it is the first year he's been relegated to a 2nd tier performer.

I may be way in outer space with my suggestion as to why his performance level is less than stellar but I don't see how anyone can just pretend there is no difference between Amare today and Amare a month ago.

And if you pick up on some subtle cues that I might be getting frustrated here it's because at no time have I suggested Amare is responsible for our loss last night but you and others keep throwing that out there.

Steve

Saying that he isn't playing well because he knows he has some backdoor deal with the Miami Heat is ludicrous.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Saying that he isn't playing well because he knows he has some backdoor deal with the Miami Heat is ludicrous.

Yeah, well, at least I'm not fickle.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

yay! let's get older!

It could work but we'd need to augment that team with a stellar outside threat. Maybe we could coax Reggie out of retirement.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

The guy scored over 20 points on a small amount of shots and got to the free throw line a lot. One of the things he needs to do in this series is make his 15-foot jumper and he was doing that consistently too. Rebounding and defense sucked, sure, but to tear down Amare for this loss in incredibly naive by, yes, fickle Suns fans.

I love that the guy who personally insults other posters by calling them naive, fickle (and usually worse, "fans") cries like a baby about how "rough" it is here on the other board he goes to.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

LOL You're not serious, are you? What has that got to do with anything? I never once mentioned whether he's a max player or not.

Amare's taking the brunt of the criticism here when in REALITY we lost because JRich and Channing were nowhere to be found. Amare could have had the exact same game but we would have been in better position to win had those other 2 guys done more than they did.

seriously? jrich actually had a good game when the ball came to him. he had 15pts, was 6-12 from the field, and 3-6 from 3pt range. held his opponent to under 50% shooting (artest 6 - 14) oh, and he had TWICE AS MANY REBOUNDS AS OUR PF! i'm no jrich apologist, but i'd think twice about deflecting any criticism against amare towards jrich.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Saying that he isn't playing well because he knows he has some backdoor deal with the Miami Heat is ludicrous.

this could be true. i'm not sure i agree with the conspiracy theory.

 

[Maligzar]

Pat Riley almost screwed the Heat years ago with the Juwan Howard deal. It's a well documented case of contract negotiations gone wrong. I would be shocked to find out he had any sort of "under the table" deal going on; this isn't like playing Monopoly or fantasy basketball. There are real rules, real laws, with very real consequences if violated.

remove the tin-foil hat... Amare is playing just like Amare always plays.

 

[AfroSuns]

LOL You're not serious, are you? What has that got to do with anything? I never once mentioned whether he's a max player or not.

Amare's taking the brunt of the criticism here when in REALITY we lost because JRich and Channing were nowhere to be found. Amare could have had the exact same game but we would have been in better position to win had those other 2 guys done more than they did.

Add Nash to that list; Fish, had his way with him in every possible position on the offensive end. Letting him get into his head thereby committing 4 crucial TO. the list can go on but Amare sucking on rebound as pathetic as it is not why we lost. Where are our 7 footers at. yeah they both combined for a whopping 7 rebounds, yippee!! but lets go ahead and blame the only person who kept us close in the first half.
It is one game, we are not better than the Lakers and if we win this series it will be considered an upset and rightly so. The lost was painful because of the 128 scored but, its not like we are the favored team here.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Amare's taking the brunt of the criticism here when in REALITY we lost because JRich and Channing were nowhere to be found.

Agree and would add Duds and Dragic to that mix, along with sub-par play from Nash...

I would argue that Dragic and Barbosa should see much more playing time!

 

[elindholm]

I want everyone to listen to me very carefully.

"Dominate" is a verb. One player or team dominates another, but you cannot be "dominate" player.

The adjective is "dominant." If you want to say that Stoudemire was "MVP-dominant" over the last two months of the regular season, go ahead. But please don't say "dominate."

Thank you.

 

[Chaplin]

I love that the guy who personally insults other posters by calling them naive, fickle (and usually worse, "fans") cries like a baby about how "rough" it is here on the other board he goes to.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Pat Riley almost screwed the Heat years ago with the Juwan Howard deal. It's a well documented case of contract negotiations gone wrong. I would be shocked to find out he had any sort of "under the table" deal going on; this isn't like playing Monopoly or fantasy basketball. There are real rules, real laws, with very real consequences if violated.

remove the tin-foil hat... Amare is playing just like Amare always plays.

Honestly, I never buy into conspiracy theories and I'm the last guy to need a tin-foil hat. I'm not suggesting there is a signed contract and I'm certainly not positive I'm right. It's pure conjecture supported by two perhaps unrelated facts.

Despite what you say, Amare is not "playing just like Amare always plays". Find me a 13 game stretch that occurs around this time of year that has Amare playing like this. I've never seen him play like this in the postseason. Sure we've all seen stretches like this from him during the regular season but I find it suspicious that he should all of a sudden go from being arguably the best player in the game to being a very average player.

The fact that shortly after he started toning down his game Pat made his "possible return to coaching" comment could just be pure coincidence. And if not coincidence, there's a good chance it was aimed at Wade to let him know he could return to Miami under the head coach of his choice. But still, having watched the recent dimming of Amare's star, I can't dismiss the possibility that Amare has let it be known that he would like to return to Florida and that he would like to play for a head coach that he reportedly respects. And having accepted that possibility, it's not too far-fetched that stories have circulated back his direction acknowledging Riley's interest. Nothing earth shattering and nothing that would necessitate League review, just a back-door understanding. I suspect it happens a lot more often that people realize.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

this could be true. i'm not sure i agree with the conspiracy theory.

Hey, I'd lose respect for anyone that just bought this theory hook, line and sinker. I'm not even sure how much I believe it and I'm the idiot that started it. Still, without it, I'm at a loss to explain Riley's comment and Amare's apparent lack of intensity this past month.

Steve

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Pot meet kettle.

i love the fact that you're both black kettle-pots!

 

[SirStefan32]

On a related note, Amare is a tool-

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/BobYoung/83645

He didn't say that, did he? A report from The Day After.

Oh yes he did, and there is little doubt the Lakers and their fans will be talking about it.

Suns forward Amar'e Stoudemire told reporters before the club's Tuesday practice that Lakers forward Lamar Odom had a "lucky game" in the 128-107 beat down the Lakers put on the Suns in Game 1 of the Western Conference Finals Monday night at the Staples Center.

Odom complemented Kobe Bryant's 40-point explosion with a 19-point, 19-rebound effort off the bench.

And Stoudemire's "lucky" statement probably assured that the Suns aren't likely to catch Odom or the Lakers sleeping in Game 2 Wednesday night.

"That's a ridiculous statement," said Suns coach Alvin Gentry, who was clearly perturbed. "It's not a lucky game, ok? He played great. The guy is capable of playing great. We have to do a better job on him.

"If we let him get to the basket and lay it in, I'm going to say it's probably not luck. He'll make whatever he shot -- nine out of 11 or whatever it was. We have to do a better job on him. I would not call it a lucky game, no."

As for Bryant's offensive onslaught, Gentry said there isn't a whole lot that can be done when he's on an offensive roll.

"Guys, we could run (General Norman) Schwarzkopf at him and he will make shots," Gentry said.


If only he would put as much effort into rebounding and playing D as he does into talking.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

wow. to give him a pass b/c he scored 23 points is incredibly naive imo. 3 rebounds. let me repeat that . . . 3 rebounds. and the game is played at both ends of the floor, but last night amare played only at one end. and honestly, if he wants to be a max player, i don't care who the opposition is, he's got to assert his will on the game. 23 points, when the rest of the team is struggling to score, isn't going to cut it.

You must then just be upset by the final score. Did you see Pau's numbers? Someone else called him a stud here. Pau also defends no one. But the Lakers won, of course, so there's that. Amare was doing the same thing last night that he did all series against Portland - keeping his man away from the rebound. That is how JRich (6) and Nash (4) get those boards underneath the bucket - it wasn't for outjumping Bynum, Gasol, or Odom.

 

[Covert Rain]

Alright, I'll try this one more time. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT LAST NIGHT!!! It's my opinion that Amare has played with less intensity for awhile now. It's based on watching the guy out there, game in and game out. It started just before the season ended. He hasn't stopped trying but he has stopped giving that little extra we've grown accustomed to this past half season and in previous playoff games.

I have to assume you were talking about last night because your observations don't apply to the rest of the playoffs or the end of the season IMO.

Amare got special attention by both teams we played in the playoffs so far. Greg made it a point in the San Antonio series to key on Amare. Amare was locked up the entire series. However, the Amare I had seen was working his butt off boxing guys out and playing defense.

Hence my speculation that an under-the-table agreement may have already been reached. Does nobody else find Pat Riley's comment to be one of the strangest out-of-nowhere comments in the history of out-of-nowhere comments. It made him look stupid, suggesting that he might once again jump back to the bench and I don't think he would have made it without a very good reason. A reason such as laying the groundwork for something he's already agreed to do. I think he's either getting senile or he's heard from a third party that a key player would like to play for him (specifically, FOR HIM).

Your speculation is still ridiculous in the information age. Sooner or late if there was some under the table deal it would come out.

Let's put that aside for one moment. I find Riley's comments anything but strange. Pat Riley doesn't want to coach a rebuilding team. He is much like Phil Jackson in that he doesn't want to coach a team that doesn't have a legit chance at winning a title. He knows the Heat are not legit contenders. However, you land a big time free agent and your chances shoot way up. Also, notice he didn't definitely say yes. So, of course it would depend on who they get and if they are contenders.

Now factor in that Riley is sort of dangling himself as an extra incentive to get a free agent to sign. He is basically telling the long list of free agents..."if you come here, you might get a hall of fame coach" to coach you. It's a selling point.

There is nothing strange or out of left field about his comments IMO.

Mailing it in is probably a little stronger than I would phrase it. Do you truly see nothing in between giving it your all and just plain giving up? I think Amare wants to win, wants to play well but is satisfied enough with what his future holds that he is no longer playing with the intensity he has previously displayed. I thought this long before we played the Lakers. Steve

We must be watching two different players. Amare has always had questionable issues with this "basketball smarts". Sometimes he just doesn't play smart on the basketball court. He also has been criticized for putting all of his energy into his offense and lacking focus on defense. Again...Amare guilty. That is a far cry from question effort and I still disagree.

Look at Amare's comments today. He called Odom "Lucky". He basically called out Odom, challenged him and gave the Lakers locker room quotes to stare at before game 2.

Now tell me...what logic about that says...I am not giving it my all?!?!?!? You don't publicly call out another player and motivate him when you are going to be the one guarding him in stretches.

It just reinforces that Amare is not "basketball smart" and sometimes plain STUPID......AGAIN.

 

[azsportsfan01]

Find me a 13 game stretch that occurs around this time of year that has Amare playing like this.

Well since 2007-2008 (the year Gasol was traded to the Lakers) the Suns have played 10 games vs the Lakers. In those 10 Amare has averaged 20.2 points and 8.3 rebounds. This whole idea is completely stupid. Do you have any actual source on this or is it all made up? If there is a shred of truth to this then the Heat will be completely screwed. Remember Joe Smith and the Timberwolves? They lost a ton of picks, some $3 million fine, and McHale was suspended for a year if I remember correctly. How about people not get so riled up after 1 game. Let's see what tomorrow brings us.

 

[Mainstreet]

Although my memory about the wording is not 100%, Bruce Cooper said on channel 12 local news Sunday something to the effect, Sarver said the Suns may not be able to keep Amare. I thought this was such a weird thing to say (coming out of the clear blue) when he was talking about the playoffs. Like I said I cannot give anyone the exact wording but I found the comment troubling. Anyone else hear it?

It's certainly not a new subject but why mention it now.

 

[JS22]

I really wish the Suns could get Bosh. Not gonna happen, but Bosh is pretty much exactly what the Suns need. Bosh and Lopez would be lethal together.

Amare is what he is. A great offensive player and very inconsistent defender / rebounder. A month or two ago I would have definitely given him the max. I know he has been going up against very talented opponents, but he's been bringing me back to reality lately. Do the Suns really want to tie themselves up with Amare? Tough choice. The fan backlash will be immense if they don't sign him.

 

[Superbone]

First of all, I don't believe the theory even a little bit. This is just who Amare is. He's inconsistent. He didn't show intensity last night and that's inexcusable. Remember back to when we had Barkley in his prime. Do you think he'd have a 3 rebound game in the playoffs? I'd like to keep Amare but he is not worth the max but he'll probably get the max.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I have to assume you were talking about last night because your observations don't apply to the rest of the playoffs or the end of the season IMO.

Actually, unless you really intend to call me a liar there is every reason not to assume I'm talking about last night because I have said repeatedly that I'm not talking about last night.

Amare got special attention by both teams we played in the playoffs so far. Greg made it a point in the San Antonio series to key on Amare. Amare was locked up the entire series. However, the Amare I had seen was working his butt off boxing guys out and playing defense.

So it's your contention that this year each of our 3 playoff opponents has decided to focus on Amare and in year's past they let him have his way? The Amare I watched was sporadic in his effort, occasionally boxing out and occasionally playing defense and occasionally making a force of himself on offense. Think Randy Moss. The Amare of a month ago was Jerry Rice.

Your speculation is still ridiculous in the information age. Sooner or late if there was some under the table deal it would come out.

It's hard to believe that so many are bringing up this argument when so many here apparently believe all kinds of NBA related conspiracies. Again, I'm not suggesting there is a signed deal in place, merely a loose agreement. A lot of things happen backchannel, why is this so difficult to imagine? I don't have a problem if someone finds my speculation absurd but I don't understand the "it couldn't possibly happen" crowd.

Let's put that aside for one moment. I find Riley's comments anything but strange. Pat Riley doesn't want to coach a rebuilding team. He is much like Phil Jackson in that he doesn't want to coach a team that doesn't have a legit chance at winning a title. He knows the Heat are not legit contenders. However, you land a big time free agent and your chances shoot way up. Also, notice he didn't definitely say yes. So, of course it would depend on who they get and if they are contenders.

Pat has a lot of PR "egg on his face" problems already from having previously thrown a head coach under the bus. Why would he voluntarily do so again unless he was laying the ground work for something. If he had no previous knowledge of an FA interest in him as a coach then the worst thing he could do would be to broach this subject unnecessarily. I may well have drawn the wrong inference but I smell a rat, one way or the other.

He also has been criticized for putting all of his energy into his offense and lacking focus on defense. Again...Amare guilty. That is a far cry from question effort and I still disagree.

And here is our biggest difference. I don't see him putting all his effort into anything. I've seen him lose focus like this before, even for prolonged stretches but not in the playoffs. I have not been satisfied with his intensity in any of these postseason games. Apparently, you have. And again, apparently, many of you see no problem with him averaging 21 points and 7 rebounds over the past 13 games.