1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
"dude's", if you haven't caught on, my participation sport is challenging... Well. Just read the damn Signature...
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The Devin Booker non-appreciation thread.
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1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
add to the "tale of the tape" what they mentioned last night, that Booker is shooting a career low from 3. You get that from the national media but you'd never get it from Arizona Sports radio or TV. Along with the fact that the Suns are one of the worst defensive teams (with the 12th weakest defender in the league).
if Suns management is to blame, it's mostly for mismanaging Booker. The local fans are still convinced (by the local media) that the course of action is to "build around Booker" again.
sure it was a major mistake to give up so much for Durant. But it makes no sense to unload him now when he's clearly more productive and Booker might even get us a better return on a trade by some team that thinks he might still have an upside.
if Suns management is to blame, it's mostly for mismanaging Booker. The local fans are still convinced (by the local media) that the course of action is to "build around Booker" again.
sure it was a major mistake to give up so much for Durant. But it makes no sense to unload him now when he's clearly more productive and Booker might even get us a better return on a trade by some team that thinks he might still have an upside.
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
another thing you won't hear from Gambo or any of the other locals. The chemistry problem is not about the Hall of Famer? We got what we traded for. It relates to the guy who gets no blame for a decade while the rest of the team and coaching is dissed and keeps getting turned over around him. And that's one of the reasons they don't connect with him. It's "his team" yet he sets the worst defensive example.
and when he has big scoring nights, the team still, too often, loses. And when Grayson Allen nailed a last second shot (that's normally his) he's the only one who didn't share a big smile and a high five. Don't kid yourself. It's not only the "Booker hater" who notices things like that.
and when he has big scoring nights, the team still, too often, loses. And when Grayson Allen nailed a last second shot (that's normally his) he's the only one who didn't share a big smile and a high five. Don't kid yourself. It's not only the "Booker hater" who notices things like that.
Because he's not....
Devin Booker Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats of Devin Booker. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com
www.basketball-reference.com
I have actually heard the local guys repeatedly say the opposite of what you are suggesting. They have been saying the chemistry of the team is bad. That means that they are not pinning it on one player. They are saying it's the chemistry with this group of guys together.
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
that's the point i keep making. The "local guys" are hands-off Booker and the local fans buy into it, despite there being only 1 player that's remained through a decade of "bad chemistry" and bad coaches (beside for 2 years of the best floor leader in the NBA). Sure, chemistry is not one player. Just like defense is not one player. But the team leader sets the tone. It's on Devin Booker more than any other player or coach the past decade.
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
correction. There was only 1.8 years of good chemistry that also benefited from Monty's good will until it all fell apart in a debacle against the Mavs when Doncic got inside Booker's head.
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1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
yup, the same old local smoke screen and wishful thinkers with blinders on.Because he's not....
Devin Booker Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats of Devin Booker. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com
i could respect that post if someone had the integrity to point out he's having his SECOND worst 3 pt shooting season
That’s not what I said at all.
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
i'm no fan of coach Bud. He blew it with Nurkic. But you've got to read between the lines on this latest spin with Booker.
interesting, how after the Pelican loss, when it was clearest this team is done, that someone happened to "leak" the story to the press about Bud telling Booker to let him run the show and not be so vocal.
sounds like another company move to make Booker look good while at the same time, throw Bud under the bus as the latest scapegoat. The prior scapegoat, Nurk, is gone, the ongoing scapegoat, Beal, couldn't be moved, and the Suns have to heal the wounds from turning on Durant and trying to move him.
indeed my biggest gripe with Bud is that, like every Booker coach before him, he hasn't been in control and has given Booker too long a leash (letting him play Booker-ball and point-Book, letting him take control in crunch time and take bad shots). He's probably gun-shy after he was dropped from the Bucks because his superstar wasn't happy.
but telling Booker, who does NOT make the best decisions, to follow the coach's lead, is probably exactly what Bud needed to do -- especially since the season is a disaster and Bud knows he'll probably be fired. Taking control, even if it risks insulting his star, is his only shot left.
but Bud did OUT-COACH our coach to win a championship, so he's entitled to applying himself over a player who never demonstrated his ability to lead, make good decisions, bond with and inspire teammates.
interesting, how after the Pelican loss, when it was clearest this team is done, that someone happened to "leak" the story to the press about Bud telling Booker to let him run the show and not be so vocal.
sounds like another company move to make Booker look good while at the same time, throw Bud under the bus as the latest scapegoat. The prior scapegoat, Nurk, is gone, the ongoing scapegoat, Beal, couldn't be moved, and the Suns have to heal the wounds from turning on Durant and trying to move him.
indeed my biggest gripe with Bud is that, like every Booker coach before him, he hasn't been in control and has given Booker too long a leash (letting him play Booker-ball and point-Book, letting him take control in crunch time and take bad shots). He's probably gun-shy after he was dropped from the Bucks because his superstar wasn't happy.
but telling Booker, who does NOT make the best decisions, to follow the coach's lead, is probably exactly what Bud needed to do -- especially since the season is a disaster and Bud knows he'll probably be fired. Taking control, even if it risks insulting his star, is his only shot left.
but Bud did OUT-COACH our coach to win a championship, so he's entitled to applying himself over a player who never demonstrated his ability to lead, make good decisions, bond with and inspire teammates.
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
... also that old line about us being grateful for him staying never did make sense. PHX is one of the better markets in the league. But, at least when that line originated he had more of an upside.
he rarely gives us points an average team wouldn't get from solid team play or assists that don't come from an open man when he and/or KD are double teamed. That's why even if he has a night with big numbers we still lose.
when he's instrumental in getting us to 115 points in game, his defense, bad decisions and lack of leadership gets our opponents to 120, even when they're one of the worst teams in the league.
the only time i've seen him smile all season is when he's the focus of a dentist commercial or a Suns promo -- which is all the friggin time
he owes the phx community for paying him on potential that was never realized and never will be. And he owes the Suns for pitching his jerseys and shoes like he's the Prince of King James
the best thing for him and us is for him to play in a new town where the coach can work on his weaknesses and give him a role, and where his fan base will require results instead of him relying on a decade of hype.
he rarely gives us points an average team wouldn't get from solid team play or assists that don't come from an open man when he and/or KD are double teamed. That's why even if he has a night with big numbers we still lose.
when he's instrumental in getting us to 115 points in game, his defense, bad decisions and lack of leadership gets our opponents to 120, even when they're one of the worst teams in the league.
the only time i've seen him smile all season is when he's the focus of a dentist commercial or a Suns promo -- which is all the friggin time
he owes the phx community for paying him on potential that was never realized and never will be. And he owes the Suns for pitching his jerseys and shoes like he's the Prince of King James
the best thing for him and us is for him to play in a new town where the coach can work on his weaknesses and give him a role, and where his fan base will require results instead of him relying on a decade of hype.
Chaplin
Better off silent
It really feels like you have a personal vendetta against him because this latest diatribe is so off base it’s ridiculous.
BirdGangThing
Cultist
something happened
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
same old attack-the-messenger post without one challenge regarding any specific point
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
yes,
what happened is weeks of being inundated with hype around Booker becoming the Suns points leader
what happened is another pitiful season with the locals pointing fingers at every other player and the coach, again
what happened is another trade deadline passed with this team dead in the water, wasting my time, and heading into another off-season likely to include another rebuild of coaches and players around Booker and his super-max salary. And if that happens, after 30 years Suns watching i will be forced to give up the bad habit.
and yes, it is personal now. Every over-hyped flashback and Suns promo featuring the one player who's been synonymous with the worst decade in Suns history is an insult to fan's intelligence and the sport of basketball itself
Phrazbit
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On the rare occasion he attempts to make a claim that is statistic based, if you bother to look up the facts, typically the opposite is in fact reality.
Such as when he claimed that Booker tries to protect his shooting percentage by never taking shots at the end of the buzzer of halves and quarters, when it turns out, Booker takes more than almost anyone in the league.
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Chaplin
Better off silent
Your whole post is utter nonsense. Unfulfilled potential? Come on.
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
1st of all, a very minor point that doesn't matter, except that it connects to other ego driven issues that matter very much. Non of which you've ever contested
2nd, all i saw was a clip of Booker chucking 15 or 20 when over the course of a decade he must have had 150 opportunities. So where do you get he "takes more than almost anyone!"
3rd, point out even one statistic, of the many i've posted, that was non factual
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1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
again with the "whole post" is nonsense without contesting any one point. Just writing "unfulfilled potential, come on" is not an argument, but for lack of anything else coherent, i'll treat it like one
there's an old thread here about 7 years ago that compared Booker to his idol Kobe. No one here really thought that was his potential, but there was hope, even though his flaws today are the same.
3 or 4 years ago, there was a thread debating whether he was a "superstar" or a "star." At the time, he was peaking so it was close. But those days are over. And when he did peak with CP3, it was over as soon as he left
his potential was a consistent top 10 player. He's being payed like a top 5 player. But he's not even in the top 24 All Stars
we saddled him with a top 10 player in NBA history and the highest paid roster in NBA history and he can't even make the playoffs
no rings, no scoring titles, no mvp consideration, no first team NBA
UN-FLIPPING-FULFILLED!!!
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He isn't what we hoped he'd be, you won't get much argument about that. But you often draw conclusions from his lack of titles and awards that just aren't justified IMO. He's not Lebron, he's not Giannis and he's not very popular among non-Phoenix fans but he's not trash either. Yes, he's overpaid but the same is true for a lot of the high paid stars in this league.
Growing up I listened to the same kind of complaints about Wilt and even when, at age 31, he finally won a title, the complaints continued because he didn't win as many rings as Russell despite having better stats. But basketball is a team sport, then and now. Team failure does not equal player failure. And no, this is not me suggesting Devin is in Wilt's class, he isn't even in Kobe's class, not even close to Kobe's class, and I'm one that considers Kobe to be among the most overrated stars ever. Devin is a good, occasionally very good, basketball player being paid like he's a great player.
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
i don't argue with any of that. Indeed, Devin is good, occasionally very good. I'll go you one further. Once in a while, he's great.
And Kobe was overrated too. Imo, Kobe's had the same ego flaw that drove him to try to take over games by himself. And though he could have had even more success, at least he still got results with his teams without Shaq.
But at what point do fans start making the connection between team failure and player failure?
do we go the Carmelo Anthony or Russell Westbrook or Allen Iverson distance? At least Carmelo was a scoring champion. Iverson was an MVP, 4 time scoring champion, and 11-time All-Star. Westbrook was an MVP too and averaged a triple double in 4 seasons. And Wilt's personal accomplishments are too long to list.
their fans could make a case for sticking with and constantly re-coaching and re-building around those superstars.
all Phx fans have really got is modern media manipulation massaging and maintaining the image of their most marketable player to sell seats, merchandise, and fan loyalty
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I really don't think we can rebuild around Devin but I don't blame him, he is what he is. And this season, what he is has mostly been disappointing. If he were truly a top 2 or 3 player maybe we could re-tool around him even without all those picks we gave away but unfortunately he's more like top 10 when he's healthy and playing well.
Phrazbit
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I don't even need to leave the page.
Because he's not....
Devin Booker Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats of Devin Booker. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
sorry for your confusion, but you should have made an honest effort and left the page.
That Hoop reply was contesting me noting what the ABC announcer last week said -- that Booker was having his worst 3pt shooting percentage of his career. His current stats show him having the 2nd worst of his career.
now, is there anything more important you'd like to contest? Like his poor clutch shooting stats or poor defensive rating?
Phrazbit
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In the post you attempt to clear up your obvious and easy to check 'mistake' you make yet another factually incorrect statistical claim about the exact same stat.
Well done.
