The Draft---My Take

[Catfish]

Quickness and speed kills----and the Cardinals added a lot of it with this draft
Our newest running back Johnson, has it and is a threat to go the distance just as Ellington is. He also has tremendous hands to catch out of the backfield, which puts him out there in space already.

Our future PR/KR has it in spades at 4.28 in the forty, (and yet he can cut). Very very few can run at that speed------almost none can cut while doing so.
There is danger here my Cardinals friends----and we are wielding this sword.

Our newest O-line prospect, DJ Humphries, has the best feet in the draft---which allows him to be flexible enough to play either side of the line. It also makes him an immediate candidate to compete for the starting right tackle position with Bobbie Massie.

The addition of two DE/OLB types can only help us on the D-line, AND with the edge rush possibility. One of them could be the surprise pick of the entire draft.

The selection of a TE for with the final pick of the draft won't hurt either.

We got better with this draft----significantly better if I might say so.

All these players are dedicated, want to, type football players who got where they are through dedication and hard work. They study the game and make themselves better, and they desire to compete and play the game they love.

No we didn't get all the picks we had hoped for--------but we got real genuine football players who will help our team and who will fill specific roles on this roster. Everybody in our Front Office, and on our coaching staff contributed to making the a very successful draft despite our poor positioning throughout the process by virtue of our standing in the W/L column from last year.

I was very pleased with the dexterity and the degree of preparedness that the Cardinals draft people displayed during this three day extravaganza.

 

[cardfaninfl]

The more I learn about BA&SK, the more I'm reminded of a story about Chuck Noll taking over the always bad Pittsburgh Steelers. In Chuck Noll's first meeting with the players he said, "I've been watching the game film since I took the job and I can tell you guys why you've been losing. The reason you've been losing is you're not good enough. I'm going to have to get rid of most of you." Emperor Chaz did exactly that. He purged the roster so completely, the Steelers only won a single game that year. But he then started bringing in players (most people never heard of) that were fast, strong, quick on their feet, showed a passion for the game on film and in practice, and possessed an attitude that Noll believed to be coachable. Chuck Noll went on to win 4 Super Bowls.

The last few years, a number of Draft commentators have mentioned Bill Belichick seems to draft players at positions that surprise the experts and in rounds that confuse most. A common phrase is, "Bill Belichick doesn't care what other people think about the draft." His New England Patriots have been pretty good.

We saw a lot of this attitude from BA&SK last year, but this draft they pushed all their chips to the center of the table. They are bringing in players they believe match their criteria and everyone else can take their Mock Drafts, Draft Grades, attempts to win an ESPN created popularity contest in May... and shove it. They want to win football games, not just try to hang on to their jobs by taking a safe route they feel will just lead to mediocrity.

 

[Mitch]

Great post, Catfish! I am in full agreement with your eloquent take.

Great post as well about liking BA&SK's draft philosophy to Chuck Noll's, cardsfaninnfl!

 

[Russ Smith]

I think it's clear SKuBA don't subscribe to the same draft board others do so there are guys they are clearly looking for certain things they like in players that others might see differently.

Harry seems to think DJ has great feet, if they can coach him up that's great.
I didn't come away either thrilled or disappointed for the most part they're not boom or bust guys.

 

[Darkside]

The more I learn about BA&SK, the more I'm reminded of a story about Chuck Noll taking over the always bad Pittsburgh Steelers. In Chuck Noll's first meeting with the players he said, "I've been watching the game film since I took the job and I can tell you guys why you've been losing. The reason you've been losing is you're not good enough. I'm going to have to get rid of most of you." Emperor Chaz did exactly that. He purged the roster so completely, the Steelers only won a single game that year. But he then started bringing in players (most people never heard of) that were fast, strong, quick on their feet, showed a passion for the game on film and in practice, and possessed an attitude that Noll believed to be coachable. Chuck Noll went on to win 4 Super Bowls.

The last few years, a number of Draft commentators have mentioned Bill Belichick seems to draft players at positions that surprise the experts and in rounds that confuse most. A common phrase is, "Bill Belichick doesn't care what other people think about the draft." His New England Patriots have been pretty good.

We saw a lot of this attitude from BA&SK last year, but this draft they pushed all their chips to the center of the table. They are bringing in players they believe match their criteria and everyone else can take their Mock Drafts, Draft Grades, attempts to win an ESPN created popularity contest in May... and shove it. They want to win football games, not just try to hang on to their jobs by taking a safe route they feel will just lead to mediocrity.

Good post.

 

[WildBB]

I'd only add the draft didn't go the way they hoped it would, but like you pointed out, at that spot in the draft order, they executed a contingency plan, which they were pretty well prepared to carry out.

While the players picked could be viewed as unspectacular compared to drafting say DuPree and Abdullah, never the less it was solid drafting. I think Golden can give Woodley a bit of a run this coming season already. I'm looking forward to seeing Humphries, Johnson and Nelson this coming season as well. Gunter and Riddick I'll give a year to groom them then turn them loose. We'll have some young studs vying for spots along that DL.

 

[Catfish]

Great post, Catfish! I am in full agreement with your eloquent take.

Great post as well about liking BA&SK's draft philosophy to Chuck Noll's, cardsfaninnfl!

Thanks Mitch

 

[Catfish]

The more I learn about BA&SK, the more I'm reminded of a story about Chuck Noll taking over the always bad Pittsburgh Steelers. In Chuck Noll's first meeting with the players he said, "I've been watching the game film since I took the job and I can tell you guys why you've been losing. The reason you've been losing is you're not good enough. I'm going to have to get rid of most of you." Emperor Chaz did exactly that. He purged the roster so completely, the Steelers only won a single game that year. But he then started bringing in players (most people never heard of) that were fast, strong, quick on their feet, showed a passion for the game on film and in practice, and possessed an attitude that Noll believed to be coachable. Chuck Noll went on to win 4 Super Bowls.

The last few years, a number of Draft commentators have mentioned Bill Belichick seems to draft players at positions that surprise the experts and in rounds that confuse most. A common phrase is, "Bill Belichick doesn't care what other people think about the draft." His New England Patriots have been pretty good.

We saw a lot of this attitude from BA&SK last year, but this draft they pushed all their chips to the center of the table. They are bringing in players they believe match their criteria and everyone else can take their Mock Drafts, Draft Grades, attempts to win an ESPN created popularity contest in May... and shove it. They want to win football games, not just try to hang on to their jobs by taking a safe route they feel will just lead to mediocrity.

I couldn't agree with you more

 

[Catfish]

I'd only add the draft didn't go the way they hoped it would, but like you pointed out, at that spot in the draft order, they executed a contingency plan, which they were pretty well prepared to carry out.

While the players picked could be viewed as unspectacular compared to drafting say DuPree and Abdullah, never the less it was solid drafting. I think Golden can give Woodley a bit of a run this coming season already. I'm looking forward to seeing Humphries, Johnson and Nelson this coming season as well. Gunter and Riddick I'll give a year to groom them then turn them loose. We'll have some young studs vying for spots along that DL.

Nice summation-------until this coaching staff and FO go back to the days of 5-11 records like their predecessors-------I am willing to give them every benefit of the doubt------they have earned it.

 

[az jam]

I think the Cards have had an excellent off season. IMO we have added some solid players in both free agency and the draft. I also think that we may find a few gems in the 14 UDFA's that just signed. BA&SK have strengthen our OL & DL and this is where it all starts. We are going to have a much tougher team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nice summation-------until this coaching staff and FO go back to the days of 5-11 records like their predecessors-------I am willing to give them every benefit of the doubt------they have earned it.

they've earned every benefit of the doubt in FA/Trades, but they haven't proven much in the draft yet. not sure how that can be argued.

 

[WildBB]

they've earned every benefit of the doubt in FA/Trades, but they haven't proven much in the draft yet. not sure how that can be argued.

When Ellington stays healthey for the whole year, the 6th Rounder will blow your theory out the water.

 

[Cheesebeef]

When Ellington stays healthey for the whole year, the 6th Rounder will blow your theory out the water.

i hope you're right! I think the kid's a complete stud, but probably suited best as a specialist, not a work-horse.

 

[football karma]

I agree with Russ that Keim has certain attributes he values way more than others and as a result, his board will probably be different from most.

I've posted earlier -- he likes size/ speed / athleticism projections.

He really seems to like them from small schools. In the last five years, the Cards have taken players from St Paul's, Presbyterian, James Madison, Pittsburg State and Delaware State.

He likes team captains.

That being said -- his philosophy hasn't been validated yet. While the small school guys have worked out, the top picks have been a mixed bag. Some of it has been circumstances-- his one top 10 pick was in a crappy draft. He's been picking in the 20s since then.

 

[WildBB]

i hope you're right! I think the kid's a complete stud, but probably suited best as a specialist, not a work-horse.

I think he falls somewhere in between that assessment.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It is very clear that they are not fond of high talent athletes with questionable motors--especially after round 1.

They do not want to have to push a player mentally. They want a player that is highly motivated and then has the talent and physical tools to make it work.

 

[WildBB]

It is very clear that they are not fond of high talent athletes with questionable motors--especially after round 1.

They do not want to have to push a player mentally. They want a player that is highly motivated and then has the talent and physical tools to make it work.

Preferably. Sometimes both talent and competiveness intersect very well. Usually that's the case with first and second Rd. prospects more than the other way around.

 

[Catfish]

they've earned every benefit of the doubt in FA/Trades, but they haven't proven much in the draft yet. not sure how that can be argued.

You might want to check our W/L record since their arrival

 

[Cheesebeef]

You might want to check our W/L record since their arrival

and you might want to check what has been the overwhelming factor in what's gotten them that W/L record. to be honest cat... your comment/snark is unneccessary. I know what our W/L record and I also know that FA/Trades have gotten us our biggest impact players from Palmer to Veldheer to Dansby to Foote to Kelly to Cromartie, surrounding the impact players that were ALREADY on the team with PP, Fitz, Floyd, Washington, Campbell. THOSE additions plus Arians are the overwhelming reasons for our W/L record.

Have guys like Ellington, Mathieu and Brown (3 picks out of 16) helped? Sure, but the MAJOR impact players for this team were either gotten through FA, Trades or were already here. I've given Keim all the credit in the world for a) hiring Arians and b) building this team via FA/Trades, adding to the major building blocks that were already here, but your complete inability to to objectively talk about the strengths (FA/Trades) AND weakness (the draft) comes off as incredibly myopic... and quite frankly, annoying with the above snark.

AGAIN, Keim has done a bang up job in FA, but they haven't proven themselves at great evaluators in the draft yet.

 

[WildBB]

and you might want to check what has been the overwhelming factor in what's gotten them that W/L record. to be honest cat... your comment/snark is unneccessary. I know what our W/L record and I also know that FA/Trades have gotten us our biggest impact players from Palmer to Veldheer to Dansby to Foote to Kelly to Cromartie, surrounding the impact players that were ALREADY on the team with PP, Fitz, Floyd, Washington, Campbell. THOSE additions plus Arians are the overwhelming reasons for our W/L record.

Have guys like Ellington, Mathieu and Brown (3 picks out of 16) helped? Sure, but the MAJOR impact players for this team were either gotten through FA, Trades or were already here. I've given Keim all the credit in the world for a) hiring Arians and b) building this team via FA/Trades, adding to the major building blocks that were already here, but your complete inability to to objectively talk about the strengths (FA/Trades) AND weakness (the draft) comes off as incredibly myopic... and quite frankly, annoying with the above snark.

AGAIN, Keim has done a bang up job in FA, but they haven't proven themselves at great evaluators in the draft yet.

I agree with your take.

I'd only say that prolly 80% or more of the teams that play an unusually high amount of the draft picks that they took in recent years are doing so because they really suck anyway. Most teams have maybe 1 or 2 crack the lineups in the 1st year and many don't start at that. Really hard for new comers to make an impact in general in the pros.

I think that Keim as GM has underwhelmed with the early picks and been fortunate and good with some of the late ones. Just thanks God we're not picking 3,5,13 any more.

 

[Darkside]

and you might want to check what has been the overwhelming factor in what's gotten them that W/L record. to be honest cat... your comment/snark is unneccessary. I know what our W/L record and I also know that FA/Trades have gotten us our biggest impact players from Palmer to Veldheer to Dansby to Foote to Kelly to Cromartie, surrounding the impact players that were ALREADY on the team with PP, Fitz, Floyd, Washington, Campbell. THOSE additions plus Arians are the overwhelming reasons for our W/L record.

Have guys like Ellington, Mathieu and Brown (3 picks out of 16) helped? Sure, but the MAJOR impact players for this team were either gotten through FA, Trades or were already here. I've given Keim all the credit in the world for a) hiring Arians and b) building this team via FA/Trades, adding to the major building blocks that were already here, but your complete inability to to objectively talk about the strengths (FA/Trades) AND weakness (the draft) comes off as incredibly myopic... and quite frankly, annoying with the above snark.

AGAIN, Keim has done a bang up job in FA, but they haven't proven themselves at great evaluators in the draft yet.

Agree with this mostly: our recent "success" (depending on how you define that, since we still haven't won anything and frankly still aren't the best team in our own division) doesn't have much to do with the players drafted. I think, however, that Keim should be given somewhat of a pass on some of these picks simply due to injuries, which are beyond his control (though it does make me question his acquiring of players with an injury history after the triage we had last year).

You make a valid point though. Especially considering Keim was still in the war room during some of our awful moves, even if he wasn't the main guy. People like to say he was against this bust or that bust (Levi Brown, for example) but nobody truly knows. It's ridiculous to expect him to hit on every pick though. Frankly, it's probably ridiculous to expect him to hit on even half. I'd love to see some actual metrics of success rates of GM's across the league, not just in landing individual players, but in building a competitive football team.

The way a lot of these GM's build teams is designed from complicated metrics that may devalue an A player because a B player may fit your scheme better, even though he may be less talented, athletically gifted, or technically sound. One teams A player on the draft board is another teams C player or lower rated pick, simply based on scheme. If you have a scheme fit for a pulling guard on your Oline you're going to rate him differently than a mauler. You're going to rate a scrambling QB differently than a pocket QB, depending on if you're west coast or a 2 TE set offense or a stretch the field type of offense.

When you're drafting in the 20's, when your team is semi-successful, you can pick and choose players who fit what you do, who fit your scheme, rather than worry that you missed out on a stud player that maybe you weren't that enamored with from the beginning.

I personally think Keim has it right. I think his FA acquisitions are exceptional. His draft abilities are undetermined in my opinion. The way he approaches the draft, at least so far, requires patience and wind at your back, so to speak, to see it come to fruition. It will take a few years to see if he can build a football team. So far, I agree with you, that our success is mostly due to coaching and the FA acquisitions. K9 had an excellent stat in one of these threads, about the # of draftees we've extended and it's not pretty. The test will be to see if that # increases next year and the following years. If you're not landing superstars and are reaching for scheme fits and character guys, then in a few years, ideally, those role players (whatever you want to call them) will be extended and that will be the defining grade on his drafts. You simply can't build a sustained competitive football team through FA while letting all your draft picks walk.

I hate using the term core players, but these players drafted last year, this year, and next year, are what I would call the meat on the bone frankly. Our franchise players are the bone, the meat is what's filled in around them. If these guys don't stick sooner or later it's going to be an issue. I'm not going to go all crazy-upset about Keim picking the meat players, but they have to stick when their contracts are up, otherwise we missed out and the fans don't get to eat.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

they've earned every benefit of the doubt in FA/Trades, but they haven't proven much in the draft yet. not sure how that can be argued.

I will argue it. Go back and look at the first and second round wasteland that is the 2013 draft. It's awful. That is probably the worst top 10 since the Clyde Duncan Year. Almost no GM had a good draft. At least Cooper and Minter have the excuse of injury, most of the rest of that draft have no excuse. Then we get TM and Ellington later.

in 2014, we got Bucannon AND John Brown with our first rounder, as far as I am concerned. Did't love the Niklas pick myself, but it's a little early to rule that one out. Again, injury is hard to predict.

 

[Jetstream Green]

As a whole I cannot really base a judgment on Keim's recent drafts since Arians arrived till after this season. Three seasons is usually sufficient time to get an idea minus the instant impact guys like Brown and Ellington... Cooper will be a huge indication of how people will judge

 

[WildBB]

Team is VERY high on this guy. Buckner already loves the guy.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...rodney-gunter-beat-odds-to-make-nfl/70970060/

 

[Catfish]

Hahaha-------I gotta love all you nay sayers who are ragging on Keim for his terrible drafts. I will just say this, then let you alone to think about it for awhile.

Cardfaninfla had been doing his homework on this thing-------and he is dead on here. Chuck Knoll was the big reason for the success of those great Steelers teams of the 70's. He totally changed the culture of that, (up to that point TERRIBLE) franchise. He not only cleaned the slate of the dead weight in that franchise---but he changed type of player that they brought in at that time.

These weren't all world talented and nationally known and accepted college joes who were all over every GM's draft boards at that time. What they were though, were capable and under the radar players who worked hard at their craft, and who loved the game enough, and were mentally and physically tough enough to not only stand up to Knoll's coaching, but to form a real (TEAM), of guys who just refused to give up, AND they were quick and fast.

Those of you who believe Keim to be this bumbling, below average draft manager, and so-so, front office guy who is forever tied to a franchise who couldn't get it done----take a look at some comparisons. All of you are laughing at our QB situation, especially Keim's selection for fixing that terrible problem that Whiz and Co. left us in. Hahaha, saddling us with some big tough cannon armed, (and not so smart), kid in the draft who nobody ever heard of---who couldn't even beat out Ryan Lindley to lead us into the playoffs last year when Palmer and Stanton went down with injuries. Have any of you ever heard of Terry Bradshaw? Can any of you remember that not even Lynn Swann or John Stalworth, Franco Harris could out run his long arm when he fired one of his laser shots down the field.

Is it any wonder that Michael Floyd and John Brown are two of the 5 most under-thrown WR's in the NFL right now. Yet here we are adding even more speed to that equation in this year's draft----with a great receiving back out of the backfield who can take it the distance, and the fastest WR/KR in the draft this year. Who is going to get the ball to them if Palmer can't do it you ask? Well---- it sure isn't Stanton I am thinking. Could it just maybe happen to be Logan Thomas, (that slow learning, big, tough, bumbling fire-baller) that Keim drafted last year? The kid that Arians didn't want to expose to failure right out of the starting gate in his career, (as Whiz was prone to do while creating the
QB wasteland in his wake)?

Now, I am not predicting that Thomas is our Terry Bradshaw------but don't you think that the similarities are certainly tantalizing between what Chuck Knoll did then-----and what BA and SK are doing now? Those of you who are lamenting Keim's failure to address our QBOF-----isn't there even a little bit of a chance that Thomas might be that guy, and that Keim already has him on our roster, and he will have had a year and a half to learn BA's complicated play book before he is ever subjected to real combat in the NFL. Isn't there even the slightest chance that Bobby Massie, Johnathon Cooper, and D J Humphries might actually be the drafted part of our (new) O-line to match with Veldheer, Iupati, and the two C/G's ( Larsen and Shipley) that he brought in through free agency. Why do all of you feel that Keim is such a wizard in free-agency, and such a dolt when it comes to the draft?

I am willing to give these guys a shot at having been right all along with their FA and their Draft selections. I will give them time to prove that the players that they have brought in from BOTH pools of prospects are going to work for us. I still believe that their W/L record gives them more than enough CRED to allow them the benefit of the doubt anyway. Let just see how things pay out before we ALL saddle Keim with the failure term when it comes to drafting. Honey Badger, Buchannan, John and Juron Brown, and even Darren Fells seem to be good draft picks for them. I am willing to see how Humphries and Cooper, and Massie, and David Johnson pan out before I call Keim a failure when it comes to drafting.