The Drums Continue to Beat

[GuernseyCard]

2,461. I've counted.. but my stats might not match yours.

Half that number if you have a spatula tongue.

 

[HeHasRosen]

30 years ago Russell Wilson wouldn't have gotten a chance.

The game has changed. Stereotypes have changed. Listen to the old guys like Gil Brandt talk and to a man, most will say that they no longer believe that being a 6'5, 230 lbs QB is important any more. The height issue is just not as important as many of you are making it out. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding on how the QB position is played. The vast majority of throws aren't made by seeing "over the line", throws are made seeing around linemen. Kurt Warner said as much, and he said that even though he was listed as 6'2", he is really 6'1 and some change.

The real concerns about Murray is that he has never shown how he handles adversity, his lack of playing experience, and how will his game translate to the pro game. You can question his desire to play football, but honestly, that's bush league because you don't know that unless you know Murray, which none of us do.

Doug Flutie actually mentioned this the other day in his Eisen appearance. It was a good listen.

Doug Flutie literally said in that very interview that it is an issue. He said not when the play runs as designed but when you go through your progressions and go to a 3rd read or checkdown. He said he had to learn to adapt to that. Not saying Murray can't, im just yet to see him have to. He hasn't had to yet. In college when it came to that point he ran. But I guess people will hear what they want to.

 

[dscher]

Doug Flutie literally said in that very interview that it is an issue. He said not when the play runs as designed but when you go through your progressions and go to a 3rd read or checkdown. He said he had to learn to adapt to that. Not saying Murray can't, im just yet to see him have to. He hasn't had to yet. In college when it came to that point he ran. But I guess people will hear what they want to.

You're right. People will hear what they want to hear. Just like when he said he could adapt because he has been doing it his whole life, then continued on to speak very highly of the kid and his talent. But yes, I hear what I want to hear. Just like we all do at times I'm sure.

I'm getting a real sense it's gonna be a huge bummer for you if they draft him... Just remember, deep breaths.... out with the bad, in with the good! Lol

 

[cardsfanmd]

It's not just about injuries its about the accumulation of hits and the fact is no QB the size of Kyler Murray--who played at close to 185 lbs in college, has ever been a regular starter in the NFL. If body weight/size doesn't matter when it comes to taking a pounding then boxing should do away with weight classes.

People who love Murray seem to think he will be able to avoid all those sacks that Rosen took because he is "quick" and that he will make a bad OL look better. Fact of the matter is probably the 2 best QBs ever in Brady and Manning made pedestrian OL's better, not by being mobile but being smart pocket passers. Compare the Denver OL with Tebow to the one with Manning--they made ONE change of the 5 on the OL and they surrendered HALF as many sacks with Manning. Do you think it is a coincidence the Patriots take average OL and turn them in to Pro Bowlers? That's not all coaching or the players just all of a sudden getting better it has a lot to do with Brady and the offense they run.

I see your point but are you really trying to say Rosen is just as elusive as Murray? You think they both would’ve taken equal hits last year? Furthermore, I’m so over the constant nonsense one here perpetuating the notion that Murray will crumble every time he’s touched. Have you ever seen Rosen in a t-shirt? He looks like my 13 year old.

Doug Flutie literally said in that very interview that it is an issue. He said not when the play runs as designed but when you go through your progressions and go to a 3rd read or checkdown. He said he had to learn to adapt to that. Not saying Murray can't, im just yet to see him have to. He hasn't had to yet. In college when it came to that point he ran. But I guess people will hear what they want to.

Murray is already better than Flutie ever was, js....

 

[Cardiac]

It'll be announced as the draft starts

Rosen traded to the Giants for pick 17

Murray goes #1

How can this happen, Rosen attended OTAs.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Murray is already better than Flutie ever was, js....

He may be. I was just responding to posters saying seeing over lineman at his height is no issue at all. If Flutie says it is I will take his word for it. He would know.

 

[dscher]

He may be. I was just responding to posters saying seeing over lineman at his height is no issue at all. If Flutie says it is I will take his word for it. He would know.

What's the average height of his college oline men? Just curious. Also...I know some people hear what they like to hear.. but, Flutie never mentioned as such about Murray. He said height could be an issue.. then readjusted to mentioned it wasnt because he has been throwing at this height for a long time. Then compared it to Brees being out of the shotgun and finding passing lanes.. So either you saw a different video...or my ears are in another dimension. Lol

 

[Jetstream Green]

He may be. I was just responding to posters saying seeing over lineman at his height is no issue at all. If Flutie says it is I will take his word for it. He would know.

But Flutie also states he has only seen the game from his point of view and that's common sense but if he would have been 6'2, he still would not have been able to see over the OL or rather the DL too. It's really a game of finding windows to throw through and knowing where to throw ahead of time by reading the defense... unless you are 6'8 or your pocket is way the hell back there

 

[slanidrac16]

How can this happen, Rosen attended OTAs.

Rosen showed a fake playbook?

 

[HeHasRosen]

What's the average height of his college oline men? Just curious. Also...I know some people hear what they like to hear.. but, Flutie never mentioned as such about Murray. He said height could be an issue.. then readjusted to mentioned it wasnt because he has been throwing at this height for a long time. Then compared it to Brees being out of the shotgun and finding passing lanes.. So either you saw a different video...or my ears are in another dimension. Lol

As far as lineman height idk and could care less honestly. It was on the Rich Eisen show. At the very end of the interview. He said it was an issue for himself, but he was able to adjust. My only point is he said it is an issue that is all

 

[GuernseyCard]

I see your point but are you really trying to say Rosen is just as elusive as Murray? You think they both would’ve taken equal hits last year? Furthermore, I’m so over the constant nonsense one here perpetuating the notion that Murray will crumble every time he’s touched. Have you ever seen Rosen in a t-shirt? He looks like my 13 year old.

Murray is already better than Flutie ever was, js....

Already better?

Evidently you never saw Flute play in the CFL or in Buffalo after his return.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Already better?

Evidently you never saw Flute play in the CFL or in Buffalo after his return.

Actually, I was always a Flutie fan growing up. Buffalo even became my secondary team while he was there.

 

[bojack]

Not sure why anyone is trying to compare KM to Flutie as proof that a short guy can be your franchise QB. Flutie had 3 mostly full seasons in the NFL, one of them resulting in post season but also a ton of picks that year. Flutie may be in the CFL HOF, but Flutie does nothing to validate that short QBs have long prosperous NFL careers.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

So what? Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson are doing just fine. My point is still valid. You take hits differently outside of the pocket as you scramble. Immobile QBs are sitting ducks that take 300 lb lineman at full speed to their blindside.. Stats are great..but sometimes stats dont tell the whole story.. I'm sure the amount of punishing hits Russell Wilson took were in the same line as a Brady or Brees. Those are the hits that matter. Imo

Uh hasn't Watson already tore up a knee? And miss a whole lot of games or was that someone else

 

[dscher]

Uh hasn't Watson already tore up a knee? And miss a whole lot of games or was that someone else

That was a freak accident. He was in the pocket as well.. and had his knee landed on. Could have happened to any pocket passer.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

That was a freak accident. He was in the pocket as well.. and had his knee landed on. Could have happened to any pocket passer.

Ty I was just wondering who it was him or Kiser just proves a point kinda though Football is as much about health as it is talent and physical abilities

 

[bojack]

There is something to seeing the more of the field better at height I would think. I haven't seen enough data to say that empirically but one correlation between some of small QBs stats I've looked at is a much larger percentage of their yardage comes on deep throws than their counterparts. Anecdotally it seems like shorter QBs have a tougher time with the intermediate passes especially, and to a lesser extent the short throws. The latter is probably slanted less because so many short passes are to wide open checkdowns near or behind the LOS where you aren't throwing into a seam or otherwise crowded area where vision is not impaired.

I think in the NFL you have a physical advantage to being around 6'4".

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

There is something to seeing the more of the field better at height I would think. I haven't seen enough data to say that empirically but one correlation between some of small QBs stats I've looked at is a much larger percentage of their yardage comes on deep throws than their counterparts. Anecdotally it seems like shorter QBs have a tougher time with the intermediate passes especially, and to a lesser extent the short throws. The latter is probably slanted less because so many short passes are to wide open checkdowns near or behind the LOS where you aren't throwing into a seam or otherwise crowded area where vision is not impaired.

I think in the NFL you have a physical advantage to being around 6'4".

Please correct if I'm wrong but exactly how many QBs under 6' have won a Super Bowl I think maybe Brees and Wilson are the only ones not a really good record for being less than 6' is it?

 

[GuernseyCard]

Please correct if I'm wrong but exactly how many QBs under 6' have won a Super Bowl I think maybe Brees and Wilson are the only ones not a really good record for being less than 6' is it?

Brees is listed at 6' - so precisely one in 51 and that one due to an overwhelming defence.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

Brees is listed at 6' - so precisely one in 51 and that one due to an overwhelming defence.

So if Murray actually takes a team to and Wins A Super Bowl he has effectively beaten 51-1 odds arent those pretty high odds to eager your job and career on Steve Keim and Kliff Klingsbury