The-Edge-Scheme

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Hardy Brown

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They will pick their five-best players and go from their. I happen to think Deuce is a guard but he could play anywhere along the line-of-scrimmage, save for center.
 

conraddobler

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Hardy Brown said:
They will pick their five-best players and go from their. I happen to think Deuce is a guard but he could play anywhere along the line-of-scrimmage, save for center.


What they are doing is trying very hard to replicate KC's offense. It has elements of what you are talking about that meshes with the ability to overpower teams with a run game.

When you factor in that now all our skill positions are on the whole stocked even better on balance than KC had. IE James = Holmes Pope < but more comparable to Gonzales, Both our WR's vastly superior, Warner at this stage slightly worse than Green but close.

You can see that if the line is half as good as KC and we field a top 10 defense especially with Watson to plug the middle on first and 2nd down then you get an instant SB contender.

The line is key if they work that out barring injury they are planning not just playoffs but a legit shot at the whole thing.
 
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Hardy Brown

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A zone-scheme doesn't really "overpower" anyone, Conrad. What it does is try to get the front moving laterally with cut-off blocks or a down-block on the backside and/or frontside (depending on the play). The back, running a disciplined course, then chooses where he wants to run the ball. The back can hit the hole anywhere along the line-of-scrimmage, including behind the center! Power-schemes try to create a hole, trying to punch a particular hole in a defense and getting the back to hit that particular hole.

This is why, this year, you hear Kurt Warner talking about the offensive-line just "getting in the way" and not whiffing. This is a simplification but it is accurate.
 

AzCards21

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11 posts and you rule Hardy. Nice info.
 

Redsz

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I think with Hardys addition the football IQ of the forum has raised about 100 points.

Which should give us a grand total of...

100 points... :D
 
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Avondale_Larry

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Great posts, Hardy.

You confused me a little; however, when you referred to "the Q" I thought you were talking about this guy:

You must be registered for see images


:D
 

BACH

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Nice post, Hardy. And great to have a poster with such knowledge about blocking on the board.

A couple of questions and comments...

They practiced zone-blocking and you praise the "pure" blocking scheme (zone or power), but don't you think the overall scheme has to be a mix between the two. Looking at our OL I'm thinking power, but looking at Edge and our system I'm thinking zone. Ideally, we would run a zone scheme, but players like Latui, Ross and Milford Brown are terrible fits IMO for the "pure" zone blocking. As somebody else posted, isn't the wanted scheme something like what the Chiefs use. They run a semi zone, where they still count on their players to power-block the vital block and then have all other on the line zone block in angles to the play-side.

If that didn't make any sense, then think of their off-tackle play. They still ask the tackles to reachblock the DEs and then makes the rest of the line zone block in angles to the playside. So when Holmes/Johnson gets on the outside of the reachblocking tackles, then either a C or G will already be on the way in perfect angle to be the lead block, when the RBs hit the next level.
 

Reddog

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Hardy this is a great presentation of your thoughts. Thank you for sharing them. As a follow-up, would you mind putting together your breakdown of our individual linemen and how you see them performing in our scheme? Where are their strengths & weaknesses and can they overcome them? Also, what is your football background?
 

Jim O

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Redsz said:
I think with Hardys addition the football IQ of the forum has raised about 100 points.

Which should give us a grand total of...

100 points... :D

Haha! :biglaugh:
 

JeffGollin

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HB: First of all: with regard to having you on this board - Is this great or what?

Second: If I were a DC faced with stopping the stretch series as you describe it, the only way I figure I can disrupt things is to move an elephant backer around behind the LOS and then shoot him through an empty gap to blow up the stretch play before (or just as) it gets to the handoff stage.

(Note - In my opinion, our inability to handle this kind of inside pressure on all kinds of running plays was what gave us the most problems last year).

How do we counter this?

 
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Hardy Brown

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Well said, Bach, but bare with me here. Sometimes I make assumptions and I shouldn't!

BACH said:
They practiced zone-blocking and you praise the "pure" blocking scheme (zone or power), but don't you think the overall scheme has to be a mix between the two.

No, I do not think you need a combination of power and zone. In fact, I say determine what you want to be and then perfect what you want to be. This is only my opinion, Bach. Denver and Atlanta have been ripping up the NFL, basically running one-play: the Tackle-Zone (or the 6 & 7 hole zone, to some). Alex Gibbs (OL coach) is the legend that started it all in Denver and then went to Atlanta. He keeps retiring and then coming back...he's like week old Spam, you just keep nibbling...

Looking at our OL I'm thinking power, but looking at Edge and our system I'm thinking zone. Ideally, we would run a zone scheme, but players like Latui, Ross and Milford Brown are terrible fits IMO for the "pure" zone blocking.

Again, well said, but just because you have powerful people in a zone-scheme doesn't make them poor fits for the scheme. The zone-scheme doesn't have to be a finesse-scheme - Denver knocks the crap out of folks. It gets a "soft" label - prompting guys like Warner to say things like, "They just need to get in the way of people," because it doesn't attack a specific hole and because of all the cut-blocks on the backside.

As somebody else posted, isn't the wanted scheme something like what the Chiefs use. They run a semi zone, where they still count on their players to power-block the vital block and then have all other on the line zone block in angles to the play-side.

You know your stuff, Bach. And this is where my assumptions get me in trouble from time-to-time. The Outside-Zone is what you're talking about, the play Priest Holmes and The Edge perfected over the years (and Robert Smith before that). Yes, on the Outside-Zone, there is a down-block on the front-side (or more, based on front), usually by the tight-end, and the UNCOVERED LINEMAN (no defensive lineman lined up over them) pulls around that down-block, attacking the second-level in space. I wouldn't characterize this play as a "power" play because it can hit anywhere down the line-of-scrimmage! You're not attacking a specific hole, per say, you're trying to get the second-level running laterally, allowing the back to find the opening. Many times, on the down-block, the defensive-lineman will play across the face of the tight-end with the second-level running over the top. If the back sees this, he cuts behind the failed down-block and takes it North! This is why you'll see The Edge line-up eight-yards deep in the backfield! It gives him room to run his course, get the second-level running, and then cut it up inside, especially if there's any penetration outside. The Tackle-Zone and the Inside-Zone has no down-blocks, making it, technically, a pure zone concept.

I hope this helps...
 

jf-08

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With Arrington's cut-back ability, this blocking scheme seems to be a natural fit for him too.
 

Shane

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jkf296 said:
With Arrington's cut-back ability, this blocking scheme seems to be a natural fit for him too.

What ability would you speaking of in relation to Arrington? :doi: :D
 

jf-08

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Shane H said:
What ability would you speaking of in relation to Arrington? :doi: :D
:biglaugh:

By lining up deeper in the backfield, he can see the holes like he did in college, rather than just running blindly to a space in the line, hoping something will break open.

Mark my words - Arrington will be a stud this year behind James.
 

Shane

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jkf296 said:
:biglaugh:

By lining up deeper in the backfield, he can see the holes like he did in college, rather than just running blindly to a space in the line, hoping something will break open.

Mark my words - Arrington will be a stud this year behind James.

Well hopefully he can average 4 yards a carry in his 50 attempts on the season. :D
 
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Hardy Brown

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With Arrington's cut-back ability, this blocking scheme seems to be a natural fit for him too.

True, accept the back has got to stoke-it when he turns North. Hopefully, JJ will do this but we won't know until he actually cuts it up and sticks his eyebrows on somebody's lips!
 

Djaughe

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Wow what a cool thread. :thumbup:

Great comments folks!
 

Duckjake

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Hardy Brown said:
With Arrington's cut-back ability, this blocking scheme seems to be a natural fit for him too.

True, accept the back has got to stoke-it when he turns North. Hopefully, JJ will do this but we won't know until he actually cuts it up and sticks his eyebrows on somebody's lips!

I'm still waiting to see Arrington display any kind of NFL RB quality acceleration. He seems to take forever to get going; like one of those toy friction cars that sit and spin their wheels for a couple of seconds and then take off across the driveway.

Time to watch some more tape. Gotta get some kind of Cardinal football fix until August.

:koolaid:
 

Redheart

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I have given my blessing to this thread.

Quality stuff you find on ASFN, ay?
 

Kel Varnsen

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Redsz said:
I think with Hardys addition the football IQ of the forum has raised about 100 points.

Which should give us a grand total of...

100 points... :D

:lmao:
 

AzCards21

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Redsz said:
I think with Hardys addition the football IQ of the forum has raised about 100 points.

Which should give us a grand total of...

100 points... :D

LMAO!!
 

BigRedArk

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Hardy Brown said:
This is why Denver and Atlanta, big-time zone teams, don't waste high-round draft picks on offensive lineman. They don't have to because most teams are looking for the biggest, baddest road-grader there is, not the guy that's 6.2--6.3, 290 -- 315, graduating from Lehigh! In my opinion, it's the biggest scam there is in the NFL.

Good stuff Hardy. Could you clarify the biggest scam part bolded above? How so?
 
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